Henry 45-70

Beaker · Post by **Beaker** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:57 pm

Henry is showing the new 45-70 steel and blue model on their website now.

Hagler · Post by **Hagler** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:02 pm

Here you go:

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-45-70.cfm

Shawn

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:17 pm

Is that a Marlin or what? I know it's not, but wow, talk about plagiarism.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:23 pm

The Henry website says "straight hand grip" but the picture shows a pistol grip. Which is it?

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:23 pm

kimwcook wrote:Is that a Marlin or what? I know it's not, but wow, talk about plagiarism.

Yup, only thing missing is the loading gate, might be the difference between a lawsuit & none. Its missing the saftey too but thats ok. They also use some sort of transfer bar setup I believe. I thoroughly dislike the front sight/barrel band setup too.

Hagler · Post by **Hagler** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:31 pm

86er,

The "specs" chart indicates a straight grip, but the ad copy says "pistol-grip":

"Our new Model H010 .45-70 can handle them all. Its receiver is blued steel fitted with an 18.43" round barrel underneath and a tubular magazine of four-round capacity. Its pistol-grip buttstock and steel-capped forend are crafted of beautiful American walnut and cut with checkering to provide a sure grip. The buttstock wears a soft rubber pad to help shooters handle .45-70 recoil from a 7.08 lb. rifle. The model H010 will be factory issued with XS Ghost Ring rear peep sight with blade front. Because the receiver is drilled and tapped, scope mounting is an easy option.

If you need a handy yet powerful lever gun capable of fast repeat shots in the bear country of Alaska, or just a short, light rifle for deer hunting in the mountains of Pennsylvania, our new Model H010 will provide the accuracy and reliability you can count on."

Shawn

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:32 pm

Leverdude wrote:
kimwcook wrote:Is that a Marlin or what? I know it's not, but wow, talk about plagiarism.
Yup, only thing missing is the loading gate, might be the difference between a lawsuit & none. Its missing the saftey too but thats ok. They also use some sort of transfer bar setup I believe. I thoroughly dislike the front sight/barrel band setup too.

They have to use a barrel band in order to use their "thru-the-tube" loading system.

I wonder if that's just an artist's rendering... there doesn't seem to be much "meat" around the breech end of the barrel.

Old Ranger · Post by **Old Ranger** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:35 pm

So what do ya do? Load it like a giant .22 with a removable magazine tube insert? And I agree that the sights are ugly! But, with Marlin soon to be only a memory, I guess this, and the Rossi Rio Grande, will be the next thing for us to seek if we want newly made .45-70 leverguns....

Wade

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:41 pm

I wouldn't count Marlin out just yet. I had a nice chat with one of their folks when I ordered new sights for my 1894 project... they don't plan on going anywhere!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:03 pm

Griff wrote:I wouldn't count Marlin out just yet. I had a nice chat with one of their folks when I ordered new sights for my 1894 project... they don't plan on going anywhere!

Then they better get on the schtick. I know they need to get their quality in check, but I wouldn't doddle.

wilko · Post by **wilko** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:19 pm

i'd buy one in a heartbeat... henry makes good stuff and stands by it!!!

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:53 pm

They still haven't given in to that whole King's Improvement fad I see.

I'm with Griff, it looks like someone took a bandsaw and cut a chunk out of the front of the receiver for some reason. Surely it won't be produced like that.

Hagler · Post by **Hagler** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Rimfire McNutjob, et al,

Are those picrues of the pre-production .45-70? Maybe. No "King's Improvement" loading gate? It sure looks like they considered it, for the Big Boy:

I prefer the loading gate.

Shawn

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:16 pm

[quote="Hagler] fitted with an 18.43" round barrel underneath and a tubular magazine of four-round capacity. [/quote]

surely the barrel is not on the bottom? right?

Old Ranger · Post by **Old Ranger** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:09 pm

The more I look at those pics the uglier it looks....might just be me, but it just don't look right. I know some Henry weapons look real pretty, but I can't see the family resemblance here.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:13 pm

Aside from the fact that their copy-writer seems to have been infected simultaneously with bloviation and brain fade, the bottom tube is the magazine, while the top one really is the barrel... The method of attaching barrel to receiver remains a mystery, for now..

Besides its being Ugly, ill-conceived, misbegotten and poorly executed, I can think of few other reasons not to own one..

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:27 pm

If it were offered in stainless steel, with injection-molded stocks, it could serve multiple functions, including (but not limited to) heavy rifle for yellowstone wolves and grizzly; drift anchor for Fall fishing on the Yellowstone; all-weather tent pole for water-proof shelter half.. (2 men could bring 2 rifles...), emergency oar for the drift-boat (again, a Pair...) The possibilities are endless...

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:17 am

I'm glad Henry makes guns in the U.S., has great customer service and all that and wish them well, but their products all look to me like something from Mattel or Hasbro, not a serious gun manufacturer. Don't want one.

While I'm at it, I also disapprove of their fraudulent advertising that suggests a connection with the original Henry. (I don't know it they're still doing that.)

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:17 am

Yes, they are still doing that...

Have finally concluded that the odd appearance of the front of the receiver is due to a decorative, radiused cut. Wierd lighting makes it look strange.

Still think it's ugly.. Their designers started with a blank page, and THAT is the best they could come up with..??? Too bad the engineer(s) don't have the imagination of the marketing gurus.. CAD-CAM allows much more flexibility than that...

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:48 am

Nice to see the relief at the forward end o' the reciever, so when the barrel lets go it goes sky ward out the way

Nath

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:39 am

Looks like morphed 336 to me. No thankee.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:37 pm

I like that you can unload it without cycling round through the magazine. I would have like it better if the ad-copy was true and it had a "straight hand grip". I think they better price this right to attract ample interest. Their 30-30 is on the high end.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:20 pm

Their website says it costs $799.00.

...Good Lord, gimme a break.ugly pressed checkering front sight looks like it was a pellet gun from the 60's

. tube loading like a .22 with a 45-70???..not for Me. I will buy a Rossi any day before this one.

afish4570 · Post by **afish4570** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:28 pm

What are they going to sell for$$$$. How strong are they?? equal to a Marlin 1895 of Ruger loading???Just wishing.afish4570

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:43 pm

I love my Henry .22 magnum, but one of the things I can't get over is the fact that there is no side loading gate. I really don't like loading from the tube, even with rimfires, although I know it is a necessity for the smaller cartridges. I do like the ease of unloading through the tube, but wouldn't switch it for being able to load through the side gate. Now if they would make a rifle that you could do both.......

BTW, the Henry in the pic is not much to look at.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:12 am

claybob86 wrote:I'm glad Henry makes guns in the U.S., has great customer service and all that and wish them well, but their products all look to me like something from Mattel or Hasbro, not a serious gun manufacturer. Don't want one.

I hate to say it, but I agree. I just can't get past how cheap looking and nasty some of the their bits are (the front sight and barrel band are simply horrible) and that surely-a-prototype is just flat out UGLY and should never have been allowed to see the light of day until properly finished. The barrel is bigger than the receiver fer Pete's sake.

I'll take a nice Rossi any day over that thing.

Oly

model55 · Post by **model55** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:22 am

Thank the lord for finding a 1895 when I could afford it-that thing is just plain ugggggggggggggly!

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:02 am

afish4570 wrote:What are they going to sell for$$$$. How strong are they?? equal to a Marlin 1895 of Ruger loading???Just wishing.afish4570

They want $800 for that abortion..........not even if they threw a couple of Remlins in with it to use as canoe paddles.

kimwcook wrote:Is that a Marlin or what? I know it's not, but wow, talk about plagiarism.

Looks more like the Rossi Rio Grande except uglier.......a lot uglier.

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:26 am

Hagler wrote:Here you go:

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-45-70.cfm

Shawn

Did they checker that thing with a waffle iron?

Looks ugly & cheap like one of those $200 Chinese (Norinco) made "junk" guns from Canada.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:45 am

I don't think it's too bad. In fact, I think the sight bases at both ends are what's killing it, aesthetically. The XS sight, while a good thought, looks odd.
A 24" barrel and a full length mag would make me happier, too.
A pump action, fed from beneath, would make me happier than pulling the sleeve out of the loading tube.

Given what I've heard about Marlin these days, I'd be inclined to take a closer look at this Henry, if only just to see if these suspicions hold water.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:56 am

I love my Henry .22lr, but that .45-70 is ugly. I prefer a loading gate in the centerfire calibers.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:13 pm

looks like they're buying the rear sight from Andy Skinner

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:08 pm

Quite possibly the ugliest levergun I have ever seen...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:25 pm

afish4570 wrote: How strong are they?? equal to a Marlin 1895 of Ruger loading???Just wishing.afish4570

Well... The Marlin isn't rated for the Ruger loading, so that would be wishful thinkin' IMO. And even if they say it it's equal to the Marlin, giveb their other marketing hype, I wouldn't THAT until I saw independent test results!

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:27 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Yes, they are still doing that...

Have finally concluded that the odd appearance of the front of the receiver is due to a decorative, radiused cut. Wierd lighting makes it look strange.

Still think it's ugly.. Their designers started with a blank page, and THAT is the best they could come up with..??? Too bad the engineer(s) don't have the imagination of the marketing gurus.. CAD-CAM allows much more flexibility than that...

Ugly it is.......even the marlin 1895 is a bit ugly compared to the old original 1895 marlin. but these guys are just copying the lines of their first design- the Henry 22- and could have chosen differently.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Griff wrote:
Leverdude wrote:
kimwcook wrote:Is that a Marlin or what? I know it's not, but wow, talk about plagiarism.
Yup, only thing missing is the loading gate, might be the difference between a lawsuit & none. Its missing the saftey too but thats ok. They also use some sort of transfer bar setup I believe. I thoroughly dislike the front sight/barrel band setup too.
They have to use a barrel band in order to use their "thru-the-tube" loading system.

I wonder if that's just an artist's rendering... there doesn't seem to be much "meat" around the breech end of the barrel.

Hadnt thought of the loading thing in regards to the barrel band. Your right about the barrel/reciever junction. Almost looks like the barel OD is bigger than the reciever.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:40 pm

Hagler wrote:Rimfire McNutjob, et al,

Are those picrues of the pre-production .45-70? Maybe. No "King's Improvement" loading gate? It sure looks like they considered it, for the Big Boy:

I prefer the loading gate.

Shawn

Yeah I saw that pic in a gun rag before the gun came out, but when they did come out it lacked the gate. Thats why I said to Griff before that it might be the difference between a lawsuit & not.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:28 pm

The original King's patent, along with any Browning, Winchester or Marlin patents regarding the loading gate have long expired.. There must be another reason...

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:53 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:The original King's patent, along with any Browning, Winchester or Marlin patents regarding the loading gate have long expired.. There must be another reason...

Your likely right, I know nothing about such things. But I was thinking they had to make it at least a little different in some way from a Marlin. Could a company just up & start making an exact copy of a current production gun?

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:00 pm

Think a minute.. Count all the clones of Colt's 1911 or AR15/M-16..

This behemoth bears little or no familial resemblence to Henry's .22s..

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:45 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:The original King's patent has long since expired.. There must be another reason...

I'd guess it's a manufacturing decision. Eliminates another cut in the receiver, a tapped hole for the loading gate screw,
and the loading gate itself, and an assembly step to install the gate. I suspect Henry or their supplier is expert in turning out the (seamed) outer magazine tubes and the brass inner tubes.Just spec different diameters, assemble and slide a complete magazine into the front of the receiver. Be interesting to see just how their center-fire rifles ARE put togethe.

pshort · Post by **pshort** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:35 am

Howdy,
You folks are sure being hard about an American made product that nobody has seen or held other than a couple of fuzzy pictures.
Why don't we wait 'til they're out and about to decide whether they're any good....
The Henry doesn't appeal to everyone, but their customer service is second to none...

Paul

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:33 am

you are right. they are a good company, and everything i have heard of them suggest they are honorable and hard working folks. i sometimes [ ? most times? ] get carried away on the aesthetics or my own personal taste in function etc. i should be welcoming another american made firearm.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:29 am

The "American-Made" mantra doesn't pass muster when the multitude of sins is so eggregious. Between the poor asthetics of the design and the false or misleading advertising, I find myself relunctant to even buy what appears to be a good product of theirs... their little .22. But... the little parts that are plastic on it, also makes me wonder about it's durability. And claims or testimonials about how good their product or customer service is... is also off-putting. I mean really, this ain't a car that needs to go into the shop for scheduled maintenance. The very best of warranties are those that never need using.

Don't get me wrong... I've had to use the "no BS" warranty from Dillon on my reloading machines... but that's after many, many thousands of rounds being produced, or I've lost a small part that is necessary for function. And that, after 20+ years of ownership and use.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:49 pm

Exactly right, Griff... We should never have to know how good their customer service is.. The Best CS Department is the one you'll never need..

The New "Henry" outfit has never had an original idea, in its entire existence.. Their successful little .22s have been with us for many years, and were once marketed by the likes of Ithaca and Germany's Erma Werke, where the gun originated.. The butt-ugly Big Boy is nothing more than purloined Marlin mechanics, cloaked in a heavy, unwieldy husk of clunky brass, and was hyped from the beginning as something it was not, which PO'd a lot of customers and potential buyers..

Now we are offered the .30-30 and the even uglier .45-70, which are unabashed Marlin wannabes.. Personally, I find the omission of a receiver loading gate unforgivable.. We are given to understand that the Henry honchos are old hand in the business, and hunters and shooters.. I contend that they never hunt too far from the porch, in Brooklyn, of all places..

I owe them no loyalty or allegience, simply because they are an American company.. So was Winchester.. Remember them..? IMO, Winchester and Marlin, and many other, now-forgotten firearms manufacturers went to great lengths to provide America's hunters and shooters with the products we wanted and needed.. The bunch from Brooklyn wants us to believe they are smarter than we are, and that they know best what guns we want... Not Hardly...!

They have a manufacturing facility and a cadre of workers there, and they couldn't take the time and effort to showcase a prototype that was fit and finished to perfection..? Gimme a break...!

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Think a minute.. Count all the clones of Colt's 1911 or AR15/M-16..

This behemoth bears little or no familial resemblence to Henry's .22s..

Yeah I suppose your right. Even their 22s are previously made guns. I just cant figure a reason NOT to use a loading gate. On another note I tend to agree with everything you & Griff just said. To ME tradition is important & lieing in an attempt to adopt a tradition thats not yours is about as wrong as it can be. But I did buy my youngest boy one of their little 22 leverguns. Its good for what it is & I have no complaints beyond the plastic & alloy parts, which I knew about anyway. I doubt I'd buy one for myself but its a good cheap gun for a 10 year old to beat around the woods with.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:01 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Exactly right, Griff... We should never have to know how good their customer service is.. The Best CS Department is the one you'll never need..

The New "Henry" outfit has never had an original idea, in its entire existence.. Their successful little .22s have been with us for many years, and were once marketed by the likes of Ithaca and Germany's Erma Werke, where the gun originated.. The butt-ugly Big Boy is nothing more than purloined Marlin mechanics, cloaked in a heavy, unwieldy husk of clunky brass, and was hyped from the beginning as something it was not, which PO'd a lot of customers and potential buyers..

Now we are offered the .30-30 and the even uglier .45-70, which are unabashed Marlin wannabes.. Personally, I find the omission of a receiver loading gate unforgivable.. We are given to understand that the Henry honchos are old hand in the business, and hunters and shooters.. I contend that they never hunt too far from the porch, in Brooklyn, of all places..

I owe them no loyalty or allegience, simply because they are an American company.. So was Winchester.. Remember them..? IMO, Winchester and Marlin, and many other, now-forgotten firearms manufacturers went to great lengths to provide America's hunters and shooters with the products we wanted and needed.. The bunch from Brooklyn wants us to believe they are smarter than we are, and that they know best what guns we want... Not Hardly...!

They have a manufacturing facility and a cadre of workers there, and they couldn't take the time and effort to showcase a prototype that was fit and finished to perfection..? Gimme a break...!

BINGO.

Oly

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:01 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Exactly right, Griff... We should never have to know how good their customer service is.. The Best CS Department is the one you'll never need..

The New "Henry" outfit has never had an original idea, in its entire existence.. Their successful little .22s have been with us for many years, and were once marketed by the likes of Ithaca and Germany's Erma Werke, where the gun originated.. The butt-ugly Big Boy is nothing more than purloined Marlin mechanics, cloaked in a heavy, unwieldy husk of clunky brass, and was hyped from the beginning as something it was not, which PO'd a lot of customers and potential buyers..

Now we are offered the .30-30 and the even uglier .45-70, which are unabashed Marlin wannabes.. Personally, I find the omission of a receiver loading gate unforgivable.. We are given to understand that the Henry honchos are old hand in the business, and hunters and shooters.. I contend that they never hunt too far from the porch, in Brooklyn, of all places..

I owe them no loyalty or allegience, simply because they are an American company.. So was Winchester.. Remember them..? IMO, Winchester and Marlin, and many other, now-forgotten firearms manufacturers went to great lengths to provide America's hunters and shooters with the products we wanted and needed.. The bunch from Brooklyn wants us to believe they are smarter than we are, and that they know best what guns we want... Not Hardly...!

They have a manufacturing facility and a cadre of workers there, and they couldn't take the time and effort to showcase a prototype that was fit and finished to perfection..? Gimme a break...!

The squeaking of the wheels on the wagon you'd need to drag that butt ugly abortion around will scare the deer away.

You could get a Rossi Rio Grande for half the money and get a smooth running levergun that you could stand to look at.

The checkering looks like a 5 year old did it with a pocket knife.