Newbie Levergun finally 'complete'

[AJMD429]

I 'introduce' a couple dozen people (adults as well as kids) each year to the world of shooting, and regardless of whether they intend eventually to hunt, target shoot, protect themselves with a concealed-carry gun, or just plink at soda cans in their back yard, I find that the BEST way to start such 'newbies' is with a levergun.

• I don't want a semiauto, because they are too easy to shoot unintentionally
  I don't want a bolt-action, because the action is cumbersome to a new shooter
  I don't want a break-open, because of the repositioning each time if shooting off a rest

I find a .22 LR is the ideal starting gun, due to no recoil, although the noise sometimes makes a newbie jump a bit (that was the last problem I solved).

I have tried different sights, and different guns, and early on noticed that the newbies tend to have trouble scrunching their head down all the way to use traditional barrel-mounted sights, yet they do very well with the unusually high sights of an AR-15. I think it is because they tend to use a 'chin' weld rather than a 'cheek' weld (which even as an experienced shooter, I realized is what I do, since I prefer scopes, and many guns I've scoped lack the high comb usually recommended for scopes). So, I tried scopes on high rings like the Weaver see-through ones, and sure enough, the newbies did better with such a setup.

• Now here I might add that while I know some purists would insist that the only way to start someone out is to force them to 'do it right from the beginning', and I agree with that as far as safety issues, etc., I think that the most important thing initially is to overcome their apprehension, and their skepticism that they won't be able to shoot well. Therefore, an unintimidating type of firearm, and a setup that assures easy target hits, is my priority at first. If a good startup enables them to ENJOY shooting, they will easily develop their own 'style' later on.

The problem with scopes is that newbies have trouble consistently getting their eye in the right place for proper eye-relief and field-of-view, and having to shift around like that can be distracting. Military-style 'peep' sights seem intuitive, and generally work well for them, but most (except the AR-15) are low-mounted, and awkward for many newbies. Enter the 'red-dot' style sights...! They typically have a higher axis, and are even more 'intuitive' than the aperture sights, and require even less 'precision' in terms of eye location.

So, at this point the goal is a .22 LR levergun, with a red-dot sight, set up to shoot off a rest. The short lever-throw and smooth action of my Ruger 96/22 has always made the newbies feel comfortable, and so that was my starting gun. I've used it with a TruGlo 'open' style holosight on it (has several selectable 'dots' including crosshairs, etc., and five levels of either green or red, so works in pretty much any light/background), and I have a homemade rest that accomodates leverguns (so do some of the LeadSled models) so you don't even have to move the gun to work the lever.

Using such a setup, I sit the newbie down at the bench, with hearing protectors on, and adjust the rest so the gun is properly aimed at the 6" 50-yard flip-up gong, which of course seems so far away and tiny to them. After demonstrating the controls and so on, I fire a shot, and 'bang-pling' the target is hit. During the nine remaining in the magazine, they will typically hit at least seven times, often all nine. I hand them another loaded magazine, and with that one, they usually hit 9 or 10 shots out of 10. They typically look at me as if to say "is this all there is to it...?", so I usually say "let's try a bolt-action" and we shoot a Ruger 77/22, which I have a NECG aperture sight on. It is a bit more difficult for them to use, but they are ready for the challenge, and eagerly proceed. After that, we go to a Ruger 10/22 with a Bushnell 4x Sportview on it, that is a bit harder yet, but mounted higher than most 'experienced shooters' would prefer, so requires less 'scrunching down'. They usually hit 8 or 9 out of 10 with that one, only faster.

From there, we progress to .22 LR handguns, then .38 Specials in a .357 Mag levergun, and so on, until at the 4-hour mark, they pick up a Ruger Bisley .44 Mag, and hit a 5-gallon bucket at 50 yards. At that point, I can tell from their wide grin that I have successfully gotten them 'hooked' on shooting...

• (Unfortunately, many times the same 'newbie' will be handed that .44 Mag as their first gun to shoot, I guess so the 'instructor' can show how macho they are, and the noise and recoil will leave them flinching and unable to shoot accurately enough to enjoy shooting, so they will often not come back for another session.)

Anyway, I think the keys are:

• First - overcome their fear of not being able to hit the target
  Second - overcome the distraction and fear of noise
  Third - overcome the distraction and fear of recoil

Cascading properly up the scale from .22 LR off-the-bench, through noisy-but-recoil-less .357 Mag leverguns, and finally to .35 Remingtons then .444 Marlins, depending on the shooter, helps in this regard, as does a similar cascade up the handgun series.

Back to the 'Newbie Levergun' - I still found some shooters distracted by the noise, and having to wear hearing protectors, so I wanted to see how they'd do with less noise. I tried the Aguila SSS ammo, and it is very quiet, but it is also very expensive, and we may shoot several hundred rounds before progressing to centerfire, so I went to a suppressor-shoot held locally, and watched (and listened) to the newbie shooters there. The only noise aside from firing-pins impacted by hammers, was steel targets impacted by bullets, and I must say the ability to converse easily without shouting over hearing protectors was nice, as was the total absense of flinching and distraction due to noise.

So . . . after about a year of waiting for paperwork . . . I got a new barrel for the Ruger 96/22 (it actually was made for a 10/22, and works perfectly on them as well - I had to hand-file a second extractor groove for the dual-extractor of the 96/22, which took about 15 minutes).



It is about the perfect newbie levergun, and will be my new walkabout gun for awhile, as well. Even bulk-pack .22's are VERY quiet due to the design (Thompson Machine 'Operative' model), so I don't have to use subsonics, but if I do use subsonics, it is ghostly quiet).

Here's a link to the suppressor - http://www.thompsonmachine.net/?page_id=14 (scroll down the page).

Now, if I could just get it equipped with a collapsable-stock like the AR-15 ones, so it could fit even the youngsters, that would be even better.

I know it lacks the historic lines and grace of a Marlin 39A, but my priority was to set up the ideal 'newbie' levergun, and I think it will be just about perfect.

[madman4570]

Great advice/read!

[Charles]

I am curious. What type of rifle did you learn to shoot with? Was it a levergun? I learned at an early age with a bolt gun and still prefer them, in spite of the fact I am left handed.

I am wondering how many of our choices, are just preferences, based on experience, rather than rational analysis.

[Pitchy]

[Les Staley]

Ajmd429 looks like a good candidate for a stickey to me.... Les

[earlmck]

Great advice/read!

+1 on that!

I am curious. What type of rifle did you learn to shoot with? Was it a levergun? I learned at an early age with a bolt gun and still prefer them, in spite of the fact I am left handed.

I am wondering how many of our choices, are just preferences, based on experience, rather than rational analysis.

Good question, Charles. I too started with a 22 bolt gun and didn't know they came in any other configuration for some years. I was in my late teens when I finally got to shoot a pump and fell in love with the type. I've happily shot a jillion rounds from bolts but prefer levers and pumps and so that's now what I mostly have.

[6pt-sika]

I started with a WInchester 67 I still have to this day .

Personally I think for a new person to start shooting from the bench in the bags a 22 bolt action is the ticket .

I also think a scope isn't a bad idea either for a beginner . You have one thing to deal with , put the crosshairs where u wanna hit . With irons you have 3 things to deal and I just plain don't like red dots . lasers or the halo or whatever you call the sight on top ur suppressed 96-22 .

When my finacee first gets here to the USA I'll start her with a Remington 512 bolt action tubular repeater . or either let her shoot the little Browning 22 auto with the 4x scope we just acquired but I'll only load one shot at first .

Regardless of what she shoots at first she's going to be wearing hearing protection . So if we shoot 22's I don't see the need for a suppressor . I will say however my gunsmith buddy has another fellow making suppressors out of his shop for the last year or so and they certainly do quiet down the little 22's .

[Marlin32]

Started shooting with my Dad's Marlin 39A. Bit long, bit heavy, also used my Uncle's Remington bolt action single shot bolt. I used Dad's Browning 22 auto some also until I bought my own 22, a Winchester 9422 which is still the only 22 that I have.

No gun is more safe or unsafe than any other. Taught properly, doesn't make any difference. Never seen a child jump or startled by the noise of a 22 and that is without ear protection?

I would never start anyone out using scopes either. Need to learn the basics of shooting before using optics. Just my opinion. Wish I still had my Child's eye, could shoot a squirrel in the eye, free hand at 40 yards, nothing to it, now struggle with shooting rest and a 4x redfield to do that.

[6pt-sika]

The actual mechanical aspect of the gun should be a secondary thing when teaching a beginner . There are MANY other things far more important to have the person grasp the concept of immediattely . For one never point the muzzle at anything you don't wish to shoot . second learn to SQUEEZE not jerk or pull the trigger , third learn to take a breath hold it a second then release half of it and squeeze the trigger .

While I realize most folks here are well aware of all I jsut said , to me there should eb more emphasis on thos things then the actual gun itself .

To be honest I see nothing wrong with going thru this part with a 22 rifle shooting blanks letting them grasp the concepts without the immediate damger of the projectile leaving the barrel . And you can do that in your basement or backyard if your area is overly populated .

[6pt-sika]

I would never start anyone out using scopes either. Need to learn the basics of shooting before using optics. Just my opinion. Wish I still had my Child's eye, could shoot a squirrel in the eye, free hand at 40 yards, nothing to it, now struggle with shooting rest and a 4x redfield to do that.

While for some I would say thats a point to be considered . But for most I think teaching them with plain old irons is actually a waste of time at the beginning . Most people regardless of age will wanna move on to a scope PDQ and then thats another thing that technically you need to instruct them on . IF the person "wants" to shoot and in the near future hunt I see no reason not to start them with a scope so they get used to eye relief etc right off the bat .

I started with iron sights on the little Winchester bolt action Model 67 (at the ripe old age of and was shooting a scope on a 243 WIN and a Ruger 10-22 very shortly there after . For maybe 25 years I never used iron sights on anything other then a revolver or pistol (which is something else that takes it's own training for the most part).

[6pt-sika]

I will say I'd like a suppressor on a 260 REM or 7mm-08 bolt gun for using during our Damage Control Permit hunting . Not so much to keep from scaring the deer and bear but rather so the landowner can't hear the shot . He has the rather bothersome habit of coming out and yelling asking us what we shot a minute or so after we shoot . Doesn't much help making it easy to get a second animal .

[Ysabel Kid]

Excellent AJ! I completely agree on starting newbies on the .22 LR. In addition to it not being intimidating (low recoil; low noise), the round in almost any decent gun is just plain accurate. Nothing encourages a newbie (or an experienced shooter) like hitting your target (and conversely, little is more frustrating than a gun that won't group worth a darn). Plus, of course, it doesn't break the bank letting them shoot a boat load!!!

[spaceman spiff]

Way to go, Doc.......


The .22 lr is an excellent way to introduce people to pistol shooting as well.


spaceman

[Ysabel Kid]

The .22 lr is an excellent way to introduce people to pistol shooting as well.

+1

That has always been my experience too. If you want to get someone hooked on shooting, use a .22. Start with a rifle, and proceed to a handgun. I have yet to meet anyone, including some people who were borderline "anti-gun", who walked away from a range session with a .22 where they had not thoroughly enjoyed themselves!

[AJMD429]

I am curious. What type of rifle did you learn to shoot with? Was it a levergun? I learned at an early age with a bolt gun and still prefer them, in spite of the fact I am left handed. I am wondering how many of our choices, are just preferences, based on experience, rather than rational analysis.

I learned on a bolt-action Stevens clone of the Winchester 67, but I've started lots of newbie shooters out and find that they generally do better with the lever action as the very FIRST gun they shoot. Keep in mind that during the first four hours, they will eventually shoot bolt-action, lever-action, semi-auto, and revolvers of single and double-action types, and by the end of the session, they generally have a strong preference for one or another of the gun actions and types of sights.

As far as 'flinching', the 'rural' type kids who are interested in firearms, could care less about the noise of a .22 LR; it's the 'city' kids, who may have parents who are hovering nervously nearby while little Susie takes her first shots, who seem to flinch, and moreso even their parents, when it is their turn.

I've based most of this on observations of actual shooters, and listening to their feedback. They don't necessarily prefer a levergun as "the kind they want to get" when they leave that range session, but 90% of them do seem to prefer red-dot sights over scopes or peep sights, and virtually none of them seem to like traditional 'open' sights. My personal preference is either a Williams FP peep, or a 5-20x scope, neither of which seem to be particularly loved by the newbies, perhaps for obvious reasons in the case of the scope.

[J Miller]

Not that anybody asked but my first lever gun was a Winchester 1894 SRC in 30 WCF. I learned to shoot on a Savage bolt action, box magazine fed ( 7 rounds IIRC ) .22 rifle and very quickly got bored, bored, bored, bored with it. Even when shooting slowly and deliberately I was constantly fumbling with that stinking sharp edged magazine. Later I got a Remington 582 (?) bolt .22, also with a box magazine, and although it was a much better rifle I didn't keep it long. Same reason as the Savage. I didn't get a lever action .22 until 1977. Still have it, rarely shoot it. It still wears it's factory open sights as well. Although it has groves for a scope mount I will not, ever, never, not even when hell freezes over, put any form of optical sights on it. Receiver sight, yes. Scope, no chance.

I'm with those who say to start from the basics. Open, iron sights, I prefer peep sights. After they've mastered the basics then they can REgress to scopes and other optical sighting systems.
JMHO

AJ, I do like that suppressed barrel though. I'd like to shoot it some day.

Joe

[6pt-sika]

Lets see my first 22 was the previousely mentioned Winchester 67 and I paid $15 for it . Followed by the Ruger 10-22 .

My first high powered rifle was a Remington 700BDL 243 WIN that I purchased the same day I bought the 10-22 . Worked the whole summer for those two and a Bushnell Scopechief IV 2.5-8x scope ! Total was something like $290 OTD in the summer of 1973 !

My first lever action was a cherry Winchester 1892 26" octagon barreled 32-20 with a full mag tube . Cost for this one was $100 in 1975 and the gun was easily 92-95% overall . Was quite the shooter I might add although I only shot factory in it as I was maybe 14 when I got it !


My first shotgun was a H&R Topper 12 gauge with a 32" full choke barrel ! I recieved that one for Xmas in 1970 I believe and as well as I can remmember the folks bought it at "Best Products" for the terribly high sum or $32.95 !
Got my first REAL shotgun the summer of 1977 when I bought myself a W.W.Greener 12 gauge SxS boxlock hammerless gun with a leg-o-mutton case for the ungodly sum of $425 . Worked almost the entire summer for that one !

[AJMD429]

I'm with those who say to start from the basics. Open, iron sights, I prefer peep sights. After they've mastered the basics then they can REgress to scopes and other optical sighting systems.

I think the most 'basic' sight is the red-dot, in particular the 'holograph' type, which require nothing more from the shooter than 'put dot on target, pull trigger'. That allows them to focus at first on muzzle control, flinching control, and trigger control, without having to deal with some particularity of sight-picture. A 'peep' sight comes close, as the sighting is intuitive, and a scope with crosshairs comes next, though the problem with proper eye-positioning and so on makes it far more difficult for many newbies than the peep, and the 'holosight' is simplest of all.

Thus, even though the technology of the red-dot and holographic sights is advanced (so is the metallurgy and gunpowder they're using), I think they ARE the most 'basic' for the newbie.

I find that once the shooter has mastered the muzzle/flinch/trigger basics, then he or she often will want to 'progress' to the more-difficult sighting systems WE may consider 'basic', and ultimately it is often the most experienced shooters and best students who wind up preferring (and becoming expert with) the open/aperture sights. But I don't think such sights are necessarily 'basic' ones for 'beginners'.

If you're ever down this way again, rest assured you may come by and shoot the 'Newbie Levergun' in all its glory; if you behave yourself, I might even let you shoot my Ruger 96/22 Magnum that has no scope, and no electronic sight . . . it has a Williams PEEP.

[Ben_Rumson]

Way to go Doc... Give them success from the get go & they'll want to learn more, cause they've learned it's not hard, but FUN!! and so be encouraged to have more fun learning some finer points of shooting....

[bakamorgan]

good read +1

I don't think I know any one that complained from the noise and recoil of a 22lr. I don't think you have to wear hearing protection for that round.

[AJMD429]

I don't think I know any one that complained from the noise and recoil of a 22lr. I don't think you have to wear hearing protection for that round.

I haven't ever had a 'newbie' complain about recoil with a .22 LR, but they definitely are distracted by the noise.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the 'outdoor kid' who has been around guns since day one, but just hasn't had a chance to shoot one yet, and is eagerly chomping at the bit - I'm usually working with kids or adults from mildly anti-gun households where there is a general fear of guns, to the point they are apprehensive even seeing one, much less touching one, for the first time. To actually shoot one is pushing their limits!

As far as hearing protection for the 'mere' .22LR, I agree that most .22LR rifles are not noisy enough I feel I actually need hearing protection, but again, when working with 'newbies' my focus is on reducing distractions to a minimum. A suppressed gun saves the extra step/gear of hearing protectors, and is definitely not distracting to them. (Of course one with a big screw-on suppressor would look too scary to many newbies , but a discrete 'integral' one they won't even realize is there).

I might add that some of my more macho shooting buddies who have skimped on hearing protection over the years, can barely hear a .22LR go off, so they tend to under-estimate the noise/damage potential of even the lowly .22LR...

[bakamorgan]

I was being a little sarcastic about not needing hearing protection.

[AkRay]

Bob Milek recommended starting kids out with a scope on the 22.

[Canuck Bob]

I'm starting my girls with a Daisy Avanti 499 peep sighted BB target gun. We bandsawed the stock for fit and then started training with 5 meters in the garage. I bought them a folding cheapy table and a simple pellet trap. We run a strict range safety program kinda military based, old habits. With a new gun range membership a little pellet gun will be next.

Doc, this is great advice and my girls will be better riflewomen because of your post, thanks.

[Old Ironsights]

If that was "my" 96... I am SOOO glad I sold it to You & not some schlub... (well, I'd have been happy to sell it to any Levergunner, but...)

[AJMD429]

Can't remember if the one I rebarreled was my 'old' one or the one I got from you, but either way, they are both loved and appreciated...!