Winchester 94 Trapper jamming

pullnshoot25 · Post by **pullnshoot25** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:44 pm

OK, what is the freaking deal! I dont know how it happens, but the freaking cartridges will pop out and get stuck above the floor plate, requiring me to remove the link pin, pull down on the floor plate and shake out the cartridges. What is the deal with this? Is this a common problem? How do I fix this issue? This is really bugging me since this is my go-to gun.

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:51 pm

Is this a 45 cal?
Are they stuck under the carrier?
Dave

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:55 pm

Don't panic, some of the gentlemen on here have this licked and will talk you through it. Patience my friend, Nath.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:57 pm

Yep, thats the under the carrier jam. It's caused by the cartridge stop on the top front of the link being worn, broken, or by tolerances stacking the wrong way.
Here is a picture of the link removed from the receiver. The cartridge stop is the projection on the top. Not all links are shaped the same. Different vintages are shaped different and different calibers are also different.

You can replace the link, or have the cartridge stop built up a bit, or you can peen the stop to make it long/taller then reshape it. But that's the problem.

It's not really common although we do hear about them frequently. And it seems more so with the newer 94s than the older ones.

Browning/Winchester has parts as well. Here is their link:
http://www.winchesterguns.com/services/parts/terms.asp

Joe

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:40 pm

My experience with the 45 is that a new link will not fix it. The 45 has the smallist rim lip of the pistil calibers. Raising the height of the stop projection did not fix it either. The next step will be to move the stop projection on the link slightly forward-too many unfinished projects.
Have two 94-45 win, One works perfectlu and one jambs. no amount of parts swapping will fix the bad one or screw up the good one.
Dave

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:56 pm

Caco wrote:My experience with the 45 is that a new link will not fix it. The 45 has the smallist rim lip of the pistil calibers. Raising the height of the stop projection did not fix it either. The next step will be to move the stop projection on the link slightly forward-too many unfinished projects.
Have two 94-45 win, One works perfectlu and one jambs. no amount of parts swapping will fix the bad one or screw up the good one.
Dave

IMO, part and parcel of the problem in taking a perfectly good design and cobbling it up to make it something it ain't... a pistol caliber rifle. Rim has little to do with the cartridge stop, it does however, have a lot to do with extraction. That's another issue with .45Colt chambered repeater type long guns. A new link, might still be within spec, but as Joe said, "stack up" of a variety of "in spec" parts can still make one not work right. Building up of a stop will generally stop the problem. The timing with the lifter (carrier in some circles) is also crucial to proper functioning. Either or both can contribute to the "dreaded "Marlin" jam in a Winchester!

Interesting enough, when I joined this jolly group a couple or three years ago, it seems there was a rash of '92 Rossis going thru the works that had the same issue. Maybe, very slowly, we'll get all the '94s fixed also!

gtaylor · Post by **gtaylor** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:06 am

Pullnshoot-

I had an Trapper AE in 44 magnum that exhibited the same behaviour. After dismantling and reconstructing an older 94, I had the nerve to get very serious about ferreting out the issue. What I discovered was a loose screw that could only be accessed by removing the loading gate cover. The screw holds a spring in place under tension, so it didn't work out further, if that makes any sense?

A friend of mine is a lion hunter, and wanted the little gun badly. I told him the issues, and cautioned him to keep a screwdriver handy to take it apart if necessary. We spent a range day trying to get it to fail, and couldn't, and it hasn't yet to my knowledge. (It is his "client" gun, while he carries a legal pistol as well)

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:24 am

IMO, part and parcel of the problem in taking a perfectly good design and cobbling it up to make it something it ain't... a pistol caliber rifle. Rim has little to do with the cartridge stop, it does however, have a lot to do with extraction. That's another issue with .45Colt chambered repeater type long guns. A new link, might still be within spec, but as Joe said, "stack up" of a variety of "in spec" parts can still make one not work right. Building up of a stop will generally stop the problem. The timing with the lifter (carrier in some circles) is also crucial to proper functioning. Either or both can contribute to the "dreaded "Marlin" jam in a Winchester! Razz Laughing

Griff,
Not to be argumentative, but my 94AE in .45 Colt has never had one lick of trouble with extraction. Not with any brand of .45 Colt cases and this includes the tiny rims of the balloon head cases. Personally from my experience Winchester (USRAC) did a fine job with their modifications. I'm sure there are some that are stinkers, but mine works fine.
My Marlin 1894 also has zero extraction problems with the .45 Colt as did my Rossi 92 copy.

I believe a lot of the trouble with Win 94s and the pistol cartridges is that shooters get in a hurry and short stroke the lever, or work it in a jerky manner rather than one smooth stroke down and back.

Just my experience;
Joe

pullnshoot25 · Post by **pullnshoot25** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:27 pm

This Trapper was made in 2005, so maybe it does have an issue.

I will pull it apart this weekend and post pictures for your guys' analysis and recommendations.

Off to pass a spanish class by examination!

pullnshoot25 · Post by **pullnshoot25** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:28 pm

Caco wrote:Is this a 45 cal?
Are they stuck under the carrier?
Dave

Nope, this is a .44Mag

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:26 pm

I only get undercarrier jam in my Trapper when I do something wrong. It ussualy happens when I short stroke the action when I am in a hurry. When I take my time and cycle the action fully it runs great.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:26 pm

JReed wrote:I only get undercarrier jam in my Trapper when I do something wrong. It ussualy happens when I short stroke the action when I am in a hurry. When I take my time and cycle the action fully it runs great.

You've probably got a borderline problem then. No matter how fast or slow you work the action it shouldn't jam like that. Now a short stroke does mess them up sometimes.

Joe

1886 · Post by **1886** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:14 pm

I recently acquired a 94 Legacy .44 Mag. The first time out I was ginger/ short stroked the action and had a round jump and tie up the gun. I have since run 30 mags.(240 rounds) full through the gun without a hitch. The only difference was that I operated the action smartly without short stroking. 1886.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:23 pm

J Miller wrote:
JReed wrote:I only get undercarrier jam in my Trapper when I do something wrong. It ussualy happens when I short stroke the action when I am in a hurry. When I take my time and cycle the action fully it runs great.
You've probably got a borderline problem then. No matter how fast or slow you work the action it shouldn't jam like that. Now a short stroke does mess them up sometimes.

Joe

When I get in a hurry I tend to short stroke on occasion

. I had a smith look at mine and it was good just get sloppy on my technique every now and then. I was trying to say that this could be the cause if it was a rare problem.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:55 am

J Miller wrote:I believe a lot of the trouble with Win 94s and the pistol cartridges is that shooters get in a hurry and short stroke the lever, or work it in a jerky manner rather than one smooth stroke down and back.
Joe

Actually, I do agree. However, going back to 1969 when Winchester introduced the Mdl 94 in .44Mag., and this has been my complaint since I learned of the progression of the Winchester lever models; why not just re-introduce the Model '92, a pistol cartridge levergun par excellance?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:15 pm

Griff,

The earlier 94s of the 60s and 70 are set up a bit different inside than those of the late 70s and on.

I have the carrier, bolt, and most other internal parts from the 60's version of the 44 Mag, and have compared them to my 85 Trapper. I can see enough differences so I understand they could be problematic.
I've never had one from that vintage though, so when I make my comments, they are in regards to the later versions only.

Joe

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:32 pm

J Miller wrote:I believe a lot of the trouble with Win 94s and the pistol cartridges is that shooters get in a hurry and short stroke the lever, or work it in a jerky manner rather than one smooth stroke down and back.

There's a lot of knowledge, experience, and truth in that statement Joe. A lever action is meant to be operated smartly and with authority. That can probably be applied to many of those that experience the Marlin Jam too.

Winchester 94 Trapper jamming

Winchester 94 Trapper jamming

my 94 jam