We've talked about shooting stray dogs before...

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:30 am

http://www.newsleader.com/article/20111 ... 20DontMiss

This is local, but I don't know these people. I do know that it is common for people to believe only the best about their kids and pets. I also know that some people just don't respond reasonably to every situation.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:33 am

Hobie, I think we talked about shooting feral dogs and feral cats.
Hunting feral dogs is a solemn event, and it's usually prompted by dead livestock.
Not the same as shooting your neighbors pets or working animals.

People don't talk to their neighbors any more.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:49 am

I have mixed feelings on this one. First off, I'd be upset as hell if the neighbor shot one or both of my dogs. It helps that they are both terrier types and not very threatening. Also his horses are one step away from being glue and a farm cat is a better animal than his horses. BTW, I hate farm cats. In other words, these horses aren't worth the bullet it would take to shoot at a dog (Personal opinion of coarse, sure his veiw is diferent). But I also understand the viewpoint of someone with horses or stock. It doesn't take a horse being bitten for it to be harmed. From my experiences running into or thru fences causes most injures to livestock and horses being chased or otherwise scared (i.e. storms). So a horse owner has a legitimate worry here.

And while I don't have any direct proof here I'm also betting these folks are transplants from the city and were not raised on farms.

LK

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:19 am

Things don't just occur out of the blue. I'd bet there's been ongoing conversation about the dogs being loose, and I'm guessing that at least one party to that conversation wasn't quite tuned-in.

The lesson is that an open field is not a playgound for a non-resident pet.

People should maintain control of their pets at all times. Just because a pet owner 'loves' their animal and considers that that they can do no wrong doesn't mean anyone else sees the creature in that light. Sad that they lost their pets to their own ignorance.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:00 am

I think there is ALOT more to this story,the Neighbour who did the shooting surley seems to have had "enough".
"The Pittkins loaded the dog's carcass on their pick up truck and went to ask Christopher Harris if he knew what happened.
"I told him we had a dead dog in the back of our truck," Deanie recalled.
She said Harris replied: "Yes, I expect you do."
He told her they could find the other dog in a ditch nearby.
The Pittkins looked there, but couldn't find Taz. They said Harris drove down to where they were, walked into the woods and pulled Taz's carcass from under a bush.
"He didn't say a word," Deanie said. She said Harris put the carcass in the Pittkins' truck and drove away."
As a Kid I was surrounded by farmland and saw the same thing several times. Always ugly.Too Bad for all involved.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:31 am

JMHO------
What an idiot????????????
The fool should have handled it differently.
That is extreme in that situation.

What should he have done??????????????
Well, thefool could have (with his little $70 Sam's Club Nikon digital camera(w/video/sound)taped the (so called dog killer pack)

Since this was such a problem he should have no problem videoing it?????????
Then take it over and hook it up to the dog's owners 50" TV
Say-------look,you guys gotta fix this(it's stressing the horses.(will you fix it????)

Then--------------go from there.

My own feeling ????????????
Give him a felony,charge him to pay dog's owners $10,000 for the dogs,and fire him from his job.

Watch and see-----I think they will nail him.

huh, hope those darn horses don't get loose and come over on dog owners land posing a dangerous threat of harming kids/cat/new dog ????????????? then again,don't think the other people are that STUPID!

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:50 am

When I was younger (alot younger), my best friends Dad had problems with dogs chasing his horses. Always, it was "couldn't be my dog, been at home all the time". Had packs of dogs coming from town too, and chasing cattle and horses. When a young colt was run thru a barbed wire fence and had its front leg almost cut off (bit if skin left holding it on) and he had to have it put down, he reached his tolerance limit. Out came the 30-06.
Sheriff was called on him once, and sheriff came out to see what happened. Was told dog was on owners front porch and was just shot there.
Sheriff came and talked to "Dad" and he took sheriff down to field and showed him the blood/hair and trail back to house. Sheriff was PO'd because dog owner lied to him.
People started watching their dogs a bit more, but still had trouble, just alot less.
About 5 years ago, best friend (brother from another mother, you know) lost 5 calves in one day, to a dog pack from town(about 2 miles away). Gets expensive

madman4570--so you are saying that when the horses get into the dog owners land and threaten kid/dogs, then the people should just video the horses so they can show the neighbors what happened, but not do anything otherwise?

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:54 am

I will always pick people over animals.
But it was wrong to shoot the neighbors dogs. More dialogue, more options.
Take care of the horses - stable them. Walk over and talk to the neighbors and explain to them why this is a problem.
Talk to the sheriff and have him talk to the neighbors.

In the end if you do shoot the dogs, well you've done your damnest first.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:19 am

Unless YOU have been there You have NO "Idea" what is Put up with. You read one Newspaper article and condemn a man on the Spot. I have been there and know the feeling of coming out to find 7 Goats with Their Guts hanging out and some with Babies hanging out Their sides or to take a stroll and have a Bull come running by being chased by a pack of Dogs.
Wasn't there a post about "whatever happened to presumed innocent ?"
One Dog normally doesn't cause much trouble. Two Dogs get a little playful and sometimes a little aggressive. Three or more and You have Trouble. I know Ur going to say but this was only 2 dogs.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, "You can't say for sure what You would do in any given situation." Adrenaline plays a big part in these circumstances.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of this. I imagine Jury selection would take some time.
Perry
rant off

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:26 am

Mixed feelings from me ---- i live across the street from a fella who raises cattle - he typically has 75-100 head at a time on and off throughout the year --- (a small operation to be sure, but still a lot of money)

He told me the stray and feral dogs were just as bad as coyotes when it came to messing with the cows -- the dogs are bold enough to try to grab newborn calves as they are being birthed

I can understand in those instances having a "shoot first ask questions later" mentality ----
I had a boxer dog that was shot once -- i dont know if it was this particular neighbor or not, and i grieved after i had to have him put to sleep, but now in retrospect, if he was out messing with the cows like that --- i can understand the guy doing it. At 100 yards, a boxer looks like a pit bull anyway. But if somebody did it out of meanness, i hope they spend a long time in a small cell with a very large gentleman of color as the cellmate

In this story -- Mr Harris is hanging himself in the court of public opinion by not providing enough information i think. If they are truly nuisance animals -- he needs to support that somehow and if he can't, it might go badly for him.

I live on 10 acres in the middle of "gentleman farmer" country and i can't count the times i have seen dogs crossing my field on the way to whatever destination dogs have --- occasionally they stop by my dog's pen and harrass/tease them for being locked up (now i have a 50 x 100 area with a 8' fence , 6' exposed and 2' buried in the ground to prevent them from digging under -- i dont plan on losing another dog unless it is from my negligience)

I saw in the article the dogs were cow dog mixes --- nothing a cowdog likes to do better than to do what he/she is born to do, and thats to run around in circles around horses and cows and raise a ruckus when they're having fun

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:40 am

It can be dangerous to fail to control your dogs.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:41 am

In Wyoming, any dog found harassing or attacking livestock or big game animals can be shot.. End of story!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:53 am

There are so many variables......Dogs are playful by nature. I'd never shoot a dog for doing what comes naturally, if no harm was coming to the livestock. Especially, a neighbors valued pet. Mean, distructive dogs, or wild/packed dogs are a different story. Bad things would happen if my dog was shot and he was doing no harm.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:00 pm

there is a lot of extrapolation going on in a lot of directions here, but the neighbors pets are not a pack of feral dogs, and shooting them if there are any other options is wrong, even if it is within the law. It's also wrong of the neighbors to not control their dogs.
You can be sure it's not the end of the story and it certainly isn't neighborly.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:02 pm

pwl44m wrote:I have been there and know the feeling of coming out to find 7 Goats with Their Guts hanging out and some with Babies hanging out Their sides or to take a stroll and have a Bull come running by being chased by a pack of Dogs.

Same here.

If someone wants to keep an animal, they need to KEEP it and take proper care of it by NOT letting it run off their property.

If it ran onto the road and got hit by a car, that would be because they didn't keep it where it belonged, safe on THEIR property, and if they let it run onto neighbor's property, the same applies.

We had a neighbor with dogs and both of us had an understanding that if either of us had a problem with the other person's dog running onto our property and causing problems, the dog would be shot. His did, I shot, and he apologized to ME for failing to control his animal. Yes, I was sorry I had to do it, but no, I wasn't going to fiddle around with staying home and trying to patrol livestock pastures all day when I was late for work. On the other hand, a few years later, someone shot his dog that was on a chain by his front porch, and both of us were furious; that was totally uncalled for.

It may be different in 'gentleman farmer' country or where there are lots of 5-acre tracts.

Another thing I don't get is that it may be a 'legitimate' issue of contention between the two families, but no way should he be facing felony charges for anything - let alone 'animal cruelty'. "CRUELTY" is neglecting or beating or abusing an animal, not humanely killing it. The same mindset is seen in the people who say deer hunting is 'cruel'. Yeah, right, but keeping chickens in cages lifelong, giving them antibiotic-laced feed, hormones, caponizing them, etc., so they can have their Chicken McNuggets is just fine...

Now there IS a big difference between "I never really liked my neighbor, and I think it was his dog that tipped over the trash-can last week, so I'm gonna wait out back by the barn, and if that stupid dog of his steps one paw past the mowed grass where the property-line is, I'm gonna blast it," and "I've told them to keep their dogs from coming over here, they have hurt my livestock, and he has a perfectly good pen they can run in, so if scaring the stuff out of those dogs by shooting right near them doesn't do it, then I'll have to shoot them".

When it was the other neighbor's CAT that caused problems, we solved it without shooting the cat, by catching it in a live-trap and dropping it off at the animal shelter. It didn't have any "ID" on it, so the shelter didn't know who to call. We told them we'd try to find a home for it and let them know within a week if we succeeded. On about the fifth day, we called the neighbors and said "Oh by the way, last week we caught a cat in the raccoon-trap we keep in the chicken-pen. We were going to shoot it like we do the chicken-eating raccoons, but we decided to drop it off at the animal shelter instead. We got to thinking, it kind of looked like your cat, so we thought we should let you know. Hopefully they still have it..." Kitty was an 'inside cat' after that. But yes, we would have shot it if it kept eating our baby chicks, and the trap-strategy hadn't worked.

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:04 pm

Part of my family lives and farms in a fairly small are in Arkansas. Years ago there was a major problem with feral dogs, harassing and killing livestock, tearing up anything that they could find, etc. This area is just far enough out that city folks would dump their unwanted pets. One aunt would have us come shoot feral cats 2 or 3 times a year, her place was a magnet for cats.

It got so bad, and these dogs so brazen that we went to carrying a rifle everywhere, on the tractor, the combine, pickup, grain trucks, everywhere. It took a long time, but the folks around there finally killed them off. Of course there are always new additions, but to this day any feral dog or cat is fair game and you won't get far in arguing with someone who shot poor "Fido" on their place.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:13 pm

Harris defended his property from invading dogs. This should be the end of the story. He'd had trouble with these dogs before and contacted the owners who denied any culpability so what did he do, he killed the dogs ON HIS PROPERTY.
Should be the end of the story.
Animal cruelty my butt!

Joe

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:15 pm

pwl44m wrote:Unless YOU have been there You have NO "Idea" what is Put up with. You read one Newspaper article and condemn a man on the Spot. I have been there and know the feeling of coming out to find 7 Goats with Their Guts hanging out and some with Babies hanging out Their sides or to take a stroll and have a Bull come running by being chased by a pack of Dogs.
rant

I read the article enough to know this has absolutely nothing to do with the article.
The only animals killed were the dogs, they were not a pack, they were not feral, they were a Pair, they belong to the neighbors, and he knew that.

Both sides of this incident are wrong - neither is in the right.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:26 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:The only animals killed were the dogs, they were not a pack, they were not feral, they were a Pair, and they belong to the neighbors, and he knew that.

The landowner has NO obligation to wait until his livestock are 'killed' until defending them. Any canine in our goat pen IS a danger to the animals, and WILL be shot - why should we have to wait until it tears up or kills an animal first...? Just so we have some gory pictures to show and get sympathy? THAT is animal cruelty - for us to stand by and allow that to happen before we shoot the intruder.

It doesn't take a 'pack' to do damage; one animal is plenty. We've had neighbors with goats who have had half a dozen animals killed or mutilated by ONE dog, in just a few minutes time.

'Pet' dogs (i.e. ones with collars, rabies tags, and cute names) have killed far more of our livestock than true 'feral' ones ever did. Feral ones are often too afraid of people to come up near houses or barns or small livestock pens, but 'pet' ones do it all the time.

It doesn't make any difference who they 'belong' to, when it comes to the damage they may do; belonging to the 'neighbor' just means they are closer and more likely to keep returning.

The owners of those dogs neglected them by allowing them to run onto neighbor's property repeatedly, no differently than if they'd let them run out in the road all the time. Eventually they get hit by a car. Sad for the animals that their owners only seemed to 'care' about them after they were shot; otherwise they'd not have let them run places they shouldn't.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:35 pm

those shots are going to cost him about $10,000 minimum and maybe 5 times that before this is all said and done. So the context of this incident doesn't fit most of the personal histories being defended or thrust into the attack.
You can put him in the right all you want, but he was stupid, and I bet you he would take back those shots right now if he could.

Those of you speaking from personal context, when I was a kid I remember my uncle going out early in the morning to stalk and shoot feral dogs, and it was a solemn event and it began with dead livestock.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:56 pm

I reiterate "UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN THERE," and this has everything to do with the article which I also read.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:05 pm

I HAVE BEEN THERE
you being on his side is not going to save him any portion of that $10,000 - $50,000. (it's going to cost him $10,000 even if he's found innocent)
Only not shooting his neighbors dogs would have saved him this money.

However, if one of the dogs had injured his livestock, there would be no charges pressed against him.

What he did was stupid, destructive and costly for all involved.

What the neighbors did was stupid, too - it cost them their dogs.

yooper2 · Post by **yooper2** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:23 pm

A lot of my early hunting experience came from eliminating feral dogs and one would be surprised how often they have a ratty old collar remaining on them. I have no patience for feral dogs as they are dangerous, cause damage, and occasionally diseased.

That being said, if it was a dog I recognized as belonging to a neighbor I wouldn't shoot unless there were repeated problems that aren't being resolved and even then I would feel bad for the dog having an owner that doesn't take proper care of their animal/isn't intelligent enough to keep it controlled.

Eric

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:23 pm

J Miller wrote:Harris defended his property from invading dogs. This should be the end of the story. He'd had trouble with these dogs before and contacted the owners who denied any culpability so what did he do, he killed the dogs ON HIS PROPERTY.
Should be the end of the story.
Animal cruelty my butt!

Joe

We have folk here on one side of the fence, some on the other side and still others, like me, who are doing a dang good job of riding the fence. But Joe's last sentance is the best of the thread. I'm so tired of people thinkin that killing with a lack of blood (i.e. at the vet with a shot) is any different than shooting one. Right or wrong, sounds like the guy used enough gun.

LK

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:35 pm

It's not cruel...it's criminal. Seeing a domestic dog doesn't rise to the level of that dog doing damage.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:33 pm

Have an arena next door to work his horses anymore???-----------Not
Future probability for the leased land to be leased again???----------------Not

On page 2 it was stated the dog killer DECLINED to resolve the issue then and there(said I will deal with them later???)
These dogs weren't feral??? (horses were not in any immediate danger like a goat being ripped in half???)
Fool again should have taped it/showed to owners/if nothing done shown to dog control????
Also could have put up a $59 game cam??????????????

Joe,
Dude, I wonder if you would feel the same if one of your cats tiptoed on someone else's land and in their mind it was worrying their pet caged flop eared rabbit so they blasted the kitty in half with a 10ga and threw the parts of it over in your pickup bed and said---here! (really not much difference guy

)
He said (hey I told them four months ago,they need to stay off my land)

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:59 pm

The guy was wrong. He knew these dogs.

I've only ever shot one dog in my life and still regret it.

I'd brought home a stray. He was good dog when I was around but I found out later that
he'd bitten my Ex twice (she didn't tell me because she knew what I'd do).
I was home late one morning when he got out and ran off for about the 10th time. I thought "Heck
with you. Good luck." About half an hour later I see him attacking the 25 yr old horse next door
just as the old boy crashed through the fence and heading for the road.
I grabbed my Springfield and headed next door.
I did everything I could to pull that danged dog off that poor old horse but I didn't want to see him
get hit by a car and hurt someone.
Went back to my truck, pulled out the '06 and finished it.
I think I cried for two days.

If a neighbor shot one of my dogs just because it jumped a fence he or she better be prepared to
go to war!

jb

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:26 pm

Not sure why it seems these days that people dont understand, free ranging dogs get shot in the country! Especially if they are running livestock. I respect him for admitting he shot the dogs (which needed shot), however, it sounds like this man is going to end up with a felony conviction. Just goes to show, if you shoot em, clean up the body and dispose of it properly. There is no way to get a conviction without evidence. I also think it is a bunch of BS charging an individual with a felony for shooting a dog.

OBVIOUSLY, some folks here have never seen a horse ran through barbwire! I love dogs just as much as anyone here. I have two good labs. Part of what makes my dogs good, is I make them mind and I keep them penned if I am not there to keep them controlled under voice command.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:47 pm

True story here that adds a personal note on the feeling of dogs out running at night or day without supervision.

My brother had a 11 yr old female pitbull that is the sweetest dog when it comes to kids and family. However, she loved to fight other dogs and would kill if the opportunity presented itself. Her favorite partner lived the next farm over and was a cross bred german shepard that enjoyed packing up to go fight as well. Well my sisters place is the next place down the road and her son had a nice lab that was probably the most laid back dog I have ever seen. ALL DOGS HERE ARE FAMILY PETS!

Unfortunately my brothers pit, the x bred shepard and a third dog went onto my sisters property at night and pretty much attacked the lab in thier own back yard. Sadly the lab died 2 days later at the vet from injuries sustained.

My brother out of respect for our nephew had his pit put down. It bothered him each time my nephew would visit and look at the pit knowing it was the dog responsible for killing his dog.

I tell this story because it seems some think the FAMILY PET is incapable of killing the dog next door. It is not always the rogue pack of dogs responsible for mischieft.

Bottom Line: your dogs right to life ends at my property line if i find that he is unable to act properly. If I see your dog run horses, cattle or chickens he will not be welcome at my place and you will be aware before I decide to put lead in him. However, once that happens you will never hear it from me. MUMS THE WORD!

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:55 pm

This is simple.

Your dog has no more rights on a neighbor's property than you do. If you entered their property without being invited, your neighbor would rightly suspect that you are up to no good. He can be doubly sure if it were your dog.

A known loose or stray dog on a neighbors property is a potentially dangerous animal which has been deliberately set loose to do damage at will, and from the input of this thread, it is with the apparent blessing of their 'owner'.

These dogs are dead because their 'owners' don't respect their neighbors and contrary to the evidence of their subsequent wailing and gnashing of teeth, they didn't give dmn about their own dogs, either.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:02 pm

Gents: the reaction to this newspaper article is surprising:

First, it only gives the dog owner’s side of the story, which just might be biased. For any number of reasons, Mr. Harris wisely declined to speak to the reporter.

Second, the reporter might have a bias as to what happened.

Third, and most important, we do not have all the facts. As Deputy Morran said, all the facts will come out in court.

Playing the Devil’s Advocate, what happened before the shooting?

As the article claims, “In May, Harris filed a complaint with Augusta County Animal Control about the dogs in question, complaining they'd been chasing his horses. But [Deputy] Moran said Harris declined to pursue the matter further, opting instead to deal with the owners of the dogs directly.”

Did he talk to them? What was the owners’ reaction? Did they ignore his concern(s) or what? Between May and November, what happened?….

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:04 pm

Sorry to see so many squeamish sisters on this board..
Just let me say that if Your dog is on My property, in the middle of my livestock, i will shoot it, and there is not a darn' thing you can do about it, legally..
I am required to fence out other livestock, deer, elk, sheep, elephants, &c., if I don't want them on my property, but the law recognizes that I can't effectively fence out predators, and if Your dog is in my stock, I can rightly determine it to be a predator..
If You care that much about your dog, it is Your responsibility to keep it under your control.if it "wanders off? Your proprty onto mine, you are still responsible for it and its actions..
The reality may sound harsh, but livestock still has legal priority in Wyoming, and more than a few "hobby" ranchers have found out the hard way, that we don't put up with trespassing, by humans or their dogs...
Grow up and accept the reality.. If life isn't that simple where you live, I feel sorry for you.. You probably can't carry, open AND concelaed, without a governmaent permit in your hometown or state either, can you...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:05 pm

horsesoldier03 wrote:Not sure why it seems these days that people dont understand, free ranging dogs get shot in the country! Especially if they are running livestock. I respect him for admitting he shot the dogs (which needed shot), however, it sounds like this man is going to end up with a felony conviction. Just goes to show, if you shoot em, clean up the body and dispose of it properly. There is no way to get a conviction without evidence. I also think it is a bunch of BS charging an individual with a felony for shooting a dog.

OBVIOUSLY, some folks here have never seen a horse ran through barbwire! I love dogs just as much as anyone here. I have two good labs. Part of what makes my dogs good, is I make them mind and I keep them penned if I am not there to keep them controlled under voice command.

I agree and wouldn`t hesitate to shoot a dog on the tail of a deer, infact it`s law to shoot them. I dislike running dogs and dislike the owners that let them run more and i also understand that someones pet could get out of bounds and be where it shouldn`t be and if it`s not killing or harming it shouldn`t be shot.
Sad thing is the lack of understanding between city and country folk and how they handle things.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:14 pm

"City" types don't "handle" things. They call their lawyers... Spineless idiots...

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:19 pm

I've been on both sides of "unreasonable" dog owners and paranoid neighbors. Frankly, I love my dog, and I KNOW he's a pain in the neck (loud, scary, but has never bitten and is not really likely to) so I make absolutely sure he stays on our property. He's either on a hand leash, tied out on a long cable run, or in rare instances, "loose" under my direct supervision.

I respect that fact that even the BEST dog has the brain of retarded child on a good day, and his nature is to defend with his teeth if threatened.

My dad, RIP, never "got" that. HIS dogs were always "good", and the neighbors were "unreasonable".

One very nice dog, a HUGE Russian wolf hound, was a "collector", of objects to include trash can lids and blue jeans (steal em right off the line), which he decorated his giant dog house with. He was not a barker, rather the sneak thief, and scared heck out of folks because of his size (he could pick up basketball in his mouth) and stealth, appearing out of nowhere... Dad would not listen when neighbors complained, begged, called the law, etc. So when the dog vanished and two years later his collar was found 100 yards from the back door of the neighbor's house, in direct shooting line, I wasn't shocked in the least.

I have a neighbor with a horse. The horse is a retired thoroughbred and is squirrelly as they come. He's terrified of dogs. I keep my dog away when she rides the horse anywhere near the house. Not my dog's fault he is enamored with horses and if allowed, would walk under the horses belly, "marching" in time with it. The HORSE doesn't know that, so my dog stays chained.....

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:23 pm

I read the article, and I find the author to be deliberately trying to make me think badly of the landowner who shot the dogs. Years ago my Aunt who lived just outside of Liberal, KS had a dog named Rusty. Rusty was a pet, loved by my cousins, and friendly to humans. He started running with a pack and harassing cattle. My cousin Norvan shot Rusty as he returned home. Norvan said that he wouldn't have a dog who would leave the property and bother anyone else. My younger cousins cried for a while, but that pet never did anything while out of sight of its owner again. I love dogs, and as I write this I have a little terrier at my feet. She loves to get out and run, and sometimes when I open the door, she gets out. I have tried everything including shock collars. She just learns where the collar will shock her and runs faster so that the shock is of a shorter duration. As soon as she gets to the end of the road, she turns around and runs back home. I love that dog, but if she gets run over, it will be her own fault. She is smart enough to know where home is and where she is not allowed to go.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:31 pm

Ok, Let's just suppose your horse, cow , goat or whatever gets out.

If it's in my back yard doing nothing but eating the old lady's flowers how are you going to feel when I shoot it dead for
no other reason than it is on my property? If it's an animal you know is just running around what is it hurting.

There's a HUGE difference if it is attacking another animal. Does anyone know this is the case here??

I've had all of the animals the above. Once in a while they get out. How long do you think you will get along with your
neighbors if you shoot everything that comes on your property? I've had their animals on my farm. You know what I did?
I got them back to where they belonged.

It's darned shortsightedness!

I have a dog that gets out once and awhile. She likes to chase ducks and geese. Once she killed a duck.
Are you going to kill my dog over a duck?

If so. Be prepared!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:37 pm

FWIW with very few exceptions, shooting a dog (even to put an end to your own dog's misery) will land ya in jail around here.

That said, YOUR DOG, CHILD, or IDIOT COUSIN who visits for the summer is YOUR responsibility. Keep em out of the road and OFF MY LAWN. OR we're probably not gonna be sharing lies around the gas grill any time soon AND ya may get a call, an email, or a visit from deputy donut who WILL inform you of the laws regarding control of the above "critters".

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:42 pm

If you don't want wandering Livestock in Ms Prissy's Petunia Patch, it is YOUR responsibility to erect a good enough fence to keep horses, cattle, sheep, goats and hogs out..
There is a huge legal difference between ponies and pooches..
Wyoming law requires "fence out..." where stock is concerned.. Simple. Easy. Unambiguous.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:44 pm

I should point out that there were THREE (3) dogs and that one wasn't harmed for some reason unknown to us from the news article.

Not to judge these folks as I don't think we have all the facts, but I am reminded of an oft told story in my family of my great-grandfather who, on seeing his own dog chasing a buggy IMMEDIATELY killed it AND apologized to the people in the buggy. This was told as an example of correct thinking and responsibility. Things have changed a mite and so now we have adherents to the 3S system.

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:44 pm

Buck Elliot, you are right on here. Thank you.

I see a great deal of this in my neck of the woods as well. I have done in many dogs who "wouldn't hurt a flee". Having a herd of sheep (and cattle, and horses, and kids) next to a new subdivision or two has been a real experience let me tell you.
Like was mentioned a few times, you don't know what those dogs are capable of doing to livestock. I've seen many gutted sheep, eyes chewed out, legs chewed OFF, barbed wire cut horses (some I had to shoot), horses run through cattle guards (had to be shot), my kids chased, 600 fresh weaned calves scattered throught out the valley and many fences ruined (calves already stressed from weaning come down with pneumonia), etc, etc.
So you can see that I lose NO sleep over whacking stray dogs. Now mind you I do use some restraint and do contact owners if there is time and IF the dogs are not causing hell right then, the first time or two. After that, no guarantees.
Like Buck said, in WY you can shoot stray dogs on your property, no questions asked. I have had the law called on me before and the last time they sent a Deputy down to my house looking for missing dogs I told him they were in the gut pile, now why are bothering me? He was new and didn't thoroughly understand the law here. He does now.
The best way that I got the point across was taking the call from one neighbor who threatened lawsuit, butt whooping etc, was to tell him go ahead and call the police and the lawyers and we can start figuring the cost of the livestock his beloved pet had killed (in this case 4 ewes and a few lambs). When the tab started going up with the lost production of said livestock and the market value of said sheep, he began to back off pretty quick.
It is (to me at least) wrong to humanize animals. They are animals. Most any dog has the instinct back in there somewhere to chase animals that flee. The result is, many times, bad for the animals with the flight instinct. I don't see it as your (read anyones) animals 'right' to be on my property. We (as property/livestock owners) should not have to wait until those dogs do damage to our livelihood.
I have four herd dogs, they stay pretty much within my fences and out of trouble. They have work to do and have some manners though. One neighbor threatened to shoot my dogs on sight in retaliation. I told him if they were chasing his horses in his three acre lot to go ahead and down the dumb ***'s. If they were on my side of the fence, then we'd meet at the barb wire and settle it like men. Still got my dogs.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:06 pm

I`ve trained my dog to kill on sight any running dogs.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:08 pm

And if I encounter someone's (?) dog(s) chasing or harassing deer, elk, antelope or big horn sheep, iI am allowed (instructed) by law to shoot the dog(s) too...
If you care about your dogs, KEEP THEM HOME OR UNDER CONTROL! Otherwise, they will end up DRT...
If anyone wants to start a war over that, bring it on..
I once had a dog get loose and kill some chickens at the place across the road.. End of dog, and I paid market price for the chickens.. That's how those things are handled by Responsible men... My kids cried for a couple weeks, but they never let a dog get loose again either..

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:16 pm

Wes wrote:Now mind you I do use some restraint and do contact owners if there is time and IF the dogs are not causing hell right then, the first time or two. After that, no guarantees.

I think most people would consider that reasonable, and I'm sure none of us here would just use 'canine-tresspass' as an excuse to blast some poor dog, especially if the owner was reasonable and cared for the animal, but had just slipped up and lost control of it.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:21 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:"City" types don't "handle" things. They call their lawyers... Spineless idiots...

Well, that saves me some typing

Couldn't have said it more succinctly.
My dogs run loose. If someone catches them chasing deer or livestock and shoots them, oh well. I won't be calling the law to complain.
If someone comes to my door and tells me my dogs have been harrassing their livestock, they won't have to shoot them.
Of course, it's against the law for me to shoot my own dog (or even a feral dog -- thanks, city folk bunny-huggers) So I'd have to load them up in the truck, take them to the vet, have them euthanized, take them home, bury them with a nice service and a wreath, maybe even a tombstone. . . .

Before I'm called a cruel &&*#$%#, my dogs are progeny of a scrawny, abused stray dog that some city punk dumped out on our road and made it's home at our place. They didn't have the integrity to take care of her or the guts to put her down. In fact all but two of the many dogs we've had in the past 20 years were dumped on us.

Funny that no one ever answers the phone at the Humane Society.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:24 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Wes wrote:Now mind you I do use some restraint and do contact owners if there is time and IF the dogs are not causing hell right then, the first time or two. After that, no guarantees.
I think most people would consider that reasonable, and I'm sure none of us here would just use 'canine-tresspass' as an excuse to blast some poor dog, especially if the owner was reasonable and cared for the animal, but had just slipped up and lost control of it.

There's one self-admitted jerk that just wants to shoot dogs for the hell of it

Maybe two of them. I'd shoot a bad dog, not one that was just hanging out and not causing trouble....Hell, I've shot at a wild dog pack while camping and they started to get too close.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:25 pm

Runnin dogs and these are no different , why i let it get away is beyond me.

I`ve not had to shoot any running dogs of yet but i wouldn`t hesitate if i seen one chassing deer or livestock.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:27 pm

I have neither the time, intention nor obligation to "interview" any new dog I see, and the same goes for the constant influx of new people into the area..
Their ignorance of our laws and mores is no excuse for what they may cause or allow to occur..
Someone once told me, "very often, knowledge feels like it leaves a bloody entrance wound.."

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:35 pm

This topic give credence to the old saying: "Good fences make good neighbors."

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:51 pm

I gave up my bird dogs about 10 years ago . So the only dog we have on our property is our little Border Terrier that stays in the house and usually doesn't go outside except on a leash !

I also have horse farms on two sides of our property , a vineyard poultry farm on the backside and a dairy farm across the road .

The folks with the poultry farm wouldn't bother a dog as a matter of fact I had a english pointer a few years back that was a real digger and every so often he would get out and go up to sit on the hill above the neighbors broiler houses and they would eaither bring him back or call me . The dairy farm is pretty laid back also .

The horse folks I ain't as sure about !
While they "seem" to be decent people I dunno . But I can say this !!!!!!!

"IF" they shot and killed that little Border Terrier that we have in this house not a horse , cat , cow or dog on their property would be safe from me !