Can you please educate me on the Winchester 38-40--thank you

[1894c]

Hi--I've been hanging out on this forum for a while and I noticed that many here seem to like the 38-40. I know nothing about this cartridge and the guns that were/are chambered for it. The only thing I do know is that some have compared the .40 S&W with a 180 gr. bullet to the 38-40.

So, if you could, please tell me about your experiences with this cartridge and what gun(s) you have for it? And if you have used this cartridge for hunting (small-game or deer)? I deeply appreciate your answers and info. And if this question has been asked before please accept my apologies... :)

Edit: I recently read some info on this cartridge--looks interesting to me--again thank you for your input.

[Griff]

I don't have a gun in this caliber... but one of my very good friends swears by it. He feels it is the best of the early BP calibers. He often uses BP in his guns, but also loads quite a bit of smokeless also. It was introduced in Winchester's 1873 rifle in 1874. It was first chambered in the Colt SAA in 1884.

Several members have guns chambered in this caliber... I'm sure their 1st hand info will be more useful than my 2nd-hand info.

[gak]

I too have become interested, and particularly enamored with the idea of converting one of. my Ruger New Vaqueros to a double or triple threat--as in cylinders--.38-40/.40S&W/10mm convertible (if Lipseys/Davidsons doesn't beat to it/not holding breath!)...then with a lever follow-up on the .38-40 (aka .38WCF) part. As you probably know by now, per your .40 reference, the cartridge numbering is one of those odd misnomers. The .38 part being misleading--should actually be .40, and the -40 part is correct (in original or traditional nomenclature) in grains of blackpowder...therefore it's more precisely a ".40-40." ( ".40WCF.") Maybe they thought it sounded too much. like .44-40? In any event, my understanding is it's literally a necked down .44-40 and said to be a great shooter--both revolver and levergun--and "inherently" accurate round.

[M. M. Wright]

I have read that most of the guns John Wayne used in his westerns were chambered for 38-40. The 5 in 1 blank they used for it's flash and smoke is the same size and shape of the 38-40 and can be fired in 44-40 and 45 Colt and a couple of others.

I have noticed that many old law dogs of the 1890 or so era favored the cartridge. Some flatter shooting than the 44-40 or 45 it is actually a 40 caliber.

Many an old SAA Colt in 41 Long Colt has been kept shooting by the addition of a 38-40 cylinder now that ammo for the 41 is so hard to come by and is not very accurate anyway. The 38-40 is much more powerful and is easily attainable.

I still have many loaded rounds, empty brass and loading dies for the caliber even though my current armory doesn't contain anything chambered for it. I am sure that that time will take care of that problem at some point. If I were gearing up for SASS and had nothing to start with, I would choose this cartridge.

[Gobblerforge]

Here's my take on the 38WCF. It is a flat shooting deadly round, period. Fun to shoot with almost no recoil and is also fun to cast and hand load for. It was originally introduced around 1880 and was the first cartridge to carry the WCF name. It was brought out to draw more attention from the folks that were already a fan of upper 30's calibers and not the 40's calibers. The same as today.
Gobbler

[RIHMFIRE]

Check this out
http://www.chuckhawks.com/38-40win.htm

It is my favorite, most accurate cartridge I shoot.
Mine is a 1926 model 1892, octogon 24" barrel...typical standard rifle...
and will shoot 1" groups at fifty yards all day long...
I use .401 180 gn RNFP lead cast bullets
with Starline Brass
Winchester primers
and 8.5 of unique powder

[perry owens]

My 1890 vintage 1873 is a 38-40. The barrel is pitted and with black powder it will only group to 2in at 50 yards. I am trying to get it relined but there is only one gunsmith in the UK who could do it and he is not interested.
I use it for CAS, shooting 0.402 190 grain BigLube bullets over 3F Swiss black powder.
Brass is thin so care is needed in reloading - I seat the bullet separately and then use a factory crimp die.
I have a Uberti 1873 short rifle on order but it will be a long wait until Uberti get enough orders from the UK for a production run.
Perry Owens

[bdhold]

think .357 - they're almost twins (not interchangeable, of course, but near-identical performance)

[perry owens]

think .357 - they're almost twins (not interchangeable, of course, but near-identical performance)

I second that - here's what happens when you fire a .357 in a 38-40.


Perry Owens

[Marvin S]

Just keep in mind the problems it can pose, like over size bores that need a fat bullet which drives the need for a custom sizer. Then there is the case neck issue that some have, where as the chambers are cut long in the body area and fired cases lose half of the neck sized length. If you get one and cast your own bullets, slug the bore and if it's anywhere over .400dia get a mold from Tom at accurate molds and have it cut to cast a bullet that can be sized .001-.002 over size, leaning on the .002.
Not saying all of them will have these issues but a lot of them do. Also not saying I don't like the cambering because I do. I'm only speaking of pre war original guns as they are the only ones I have experience with.

[1894c]

thank you for the replies, your input and the web-link to Chuck Hawks article--much appreciated... :)

[Don McDowell]

I rather like the 38-40 in a handgun. When it's loaded to it's full potential, either with saami spec smokeless loads or a case full of black, it's pretty easy to see why it was so popular in it's day. I'ld expect a rifle so chambered to be a pretty decent short range freezer filler. I hope to acquire a rifle and another handgun in the chambering this year.
I've found no more trouble reloading the cartridge than any of the other wcf's and certainly less crumpled cases than with the 32-20.

[cshold]

Removed

[Don McDowell]

You can still get the Lyman 310 tools. If they don't offer the 38 wcf tool anymore (seems they take stuff off of the list ever once in awhile), google up an outfit called the 310 shop.
Bullet moulds, I like the rcbs 180 gr bullet, but depending on the number of rounds you're going to shoot in a year, you may be better just to go thru one of the commercial casters and get the bullets either lubed with a good bp lube, or unlubed and you can lube them yourself. If you want to cast your own, a lee production pot, and a supply of either wheelweights or 20-1 alloy .
Also get ahold of Powder Inc, and have Jerry to send you 5 lbs of KIK 3f, and some thin card wads for the 38-40. Matter of fact you might be able to get bp lubed bullets from him..

[cshold]

Removed

[Don McDowell]

Ubecha.
Wish it weren't so dang far to your place from here. I'ld bring some of my bullets,powder etc over and we'll see what that ol rifle can do.

[Griff]

As for wads, I picked up a punch that a 7/16" round wad from Tandy Leather. I just get my wife to buy milk or her ½&½ in the waxed paper cartons. I feel wads are "el cheap's" gas check! ("El Cheapo" being me!) One word of caution on using wads in bottle-neck cases, don't let the wad get pushed down into the body of the case, it WILL upset your accuracy.

[rbertalotto]

I'm a huge fan of the 38-40. If you shoot Cowboy Action, there isn't a better cartridge in my opinion.

Cowboy Action requires light recoil loads so you can "go fast".....But light recoil means low pressure and the 45LC with low pressure loads really blows back as the case doesn't seal the chamber well. The 38-40 (like it's big brother the 44-40) use extremely tin brass and being a bottleneck, do an excellent job of sealing the chamber. This is extremely important with black powder loads.

And being a bottleneck, they feed much better than most straight wall cases in lever and pump rifles.

I have the following rifles in 38-40:
Uberti 1866
Winchester 1892 Take Down (Modern-Japan)
Winchester 1873 (Vintage)
Marlin 1889 (Vintage)
Colt Lightning (Taurus Thunderbolt)
Uberti 1873 SAA Revolver

38-40, Accurate, Light recoil, deadly on deer size game with the proper bullet, easy to load for, excellent with black powder......What's not to like!

[earlmck]

Lots of 38wcf fans on the forum. And these days you can get 38-40 headstamped brass easy enough. Back when I first decided to reload for it there was no 38-40 brass to be had but 44-40 was easily acquired and reasonably cheap so I used that. Kept wrinkling the case necks until I figured out that any little dent (like you get lots of in a batch of new cases) would result in a wrinkle. But the brass is so thin that you can easily iron out these little dents by hand (I think I used and '06 case spun in the case neck). Once you do that you hardly ever loose a case taking her from 44-40 down to 38-40. Just sayin', in case somebody needs to do it.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

think .357 - they're almost twins (not interchangeable, of course, but near-identical performance)

Balistically it's almost identical to 40 S&W, the favored LE round today. Very much like the 38-40 was the LE favored round in it's early days.

[1894c]

think .357 - they're almost twins (not interchangeable, of course, but near-identical performance)

Balistically it's almost identical to 40 S&W, the favored LE round today. Very much like the 38-40 was the LE favored round in it's early days.

my two modern LE duty 38-40's (Glock 23 & 27)...better known as the .40S&W...we carry 180 Speer Gold Dots...what was good for the old Texas Rangers is good enough for today's LEO's...still thinking about getting a 38-40... :)

[1historian]

I had a 38 wcf 1889 marlin rifle for a number of years. Shot only one box of factory ammo (ultramax)...but reloaded hundreds of rounds using a 180 grain bullet of traditional profile cast 1 part tin to 20 parts lead.

Considering the EXTREMELY bad bore it shot pretty well. With a full case of ffg it had the accuracy and power to take down reduced size steel trukeys out to 75 yards...after that it seemed to lose both power and accuracy. This was off hand with the original buckhorn sights.

I was a lot of fun to shoot...but the Marlin was pretty well worn, reblued (really blue) and was a finicky about functioning.

Sold it at a loss becaause collector don't want refinished guns...but I had more than my money's worth of fun with it and an education in shooting black powder cartridge guns.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

think .357 - they're almost twins (not interchangeable, of course, but near-identical performance)

Balistically it's almost identical to 40 S&W, the favored LE round today. Very much like the 38-40 was the LE favored round in it's early days.

my two modern LE duty 38-40's (Glock 23 & 27)...better known as the .40S&W...we carry 180 Speer Gold Dots...what was good for the old Texas Rangers is good enough for today's LEO's...still thinking about getting a 38-40...

Now all you need now is a plastic carbine to go with them plastic pistols.



With the mag out it fits in a laptop bag.

[Sixgun]

Great fun cartridge. I've been shooting it regularly for 40 years, probably averaging a couple of thou a year out of Colt Lightning's, SAA's, Marlins, '73 Winchesters, Ruger SA, Colt NS....-------Sixgun