1895 in 9.3x62 - It has been christened

[Bosco]

Gents,
Recently I purchased an 1895 Winchester (new model) which had been rebarreled to 9.3x62. The entire rifle has been hard chromed. It has a scout scope mounted on the barrel. Today I hunted opening rifle deer season in Nebraska with it. I shot the second nicest buck I have ever bagged. A big bodied 4x4. I also shot a doe. Two of the Prvi Partizan 285 grain bullets remained in the buck's off side near the bottom of it's neck. I have not weighed the bullets yet. One had the core separated from the cup the core was disintegrated. Both showed fair expansion. I will try to post some measurements of the recovered bullets after my wife and I finish our tenderloin dinner. It is a fun and unique rifle in an uncommon caliber and configuration. I like it so far.

[Rusty]

Don't forget pictures of the rifle too.

[kimwcook]

Don't forget pictures of the rifle too.

Yes and good job.

[PaperPatch]

Good work on opening day. Pictures of rifle and critter are very welcome here.

[86er]

Sounds great, and interesting...

[2ndovc]

Sounds like a pretty slick '95. Can't wait for the photos.

jb

[Pitchy]

Cool, congrats

[Blaine]

That always struck my as a real WhoopButt caliber......

[Nath]

That sounds like an odd ball, should fit in nicely round these parts!

Pic's would be the icing on the cake

Well done sir.

Nath.

[Leverluver]

Excellent cartridge choice for the M95; powerful yet reasonable pressure. I tested several bullets (pressure and performance) loaded in Euro factory rounds and found them to act similar to your results. Evidently the Euro idea is that a round of such relatively low velocity does need a quality bullet. I disagree and we have better choices for loading over here.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, we need to see that!

And I'm kind of surprised to hear that the rounds stayed in the animal = from what angle did they enter? Sounds like they may have expanded more than ideal but obviously they worked, so we can't be too critical

Congrats all the way around!

[AJMD429]

Wow. . . no pictures. . .

[Marlin32]

Real interested in the bullet performance. Maybe too close? But if breaking up on white tail, doesn't look good for bigger quarry.

What is 86er's thoughts on these bullets?? Was it just the range? or are they poor bullets??

[Leverluver]

The ones I tested opened well at the low velocities but there was not enough kinetic energy to drive that opened bullet to any depth. In my experience and right off the top of my hat, I can't remember the exact ammo I tested (none were "premium"), the velocities were well off quoted factory velocities and pressures. One 286 load barely exceeded 2100fps and ~40KSI. CIP max specs for the 9.3 (which are still well below what we consider "normal" bolt gun pressures) are much higher than that. There are still some one or two lug guns floating around the continent chambered in 9.3x62 and I guess they are covering their butts by down-loading. If it were me, I'd load a quality (Swift, Nosler, or NF) 250 grain bullet to ~2500fps and never look back. That pressure (low 50KSI region) will not stress the 95 or the brass as opposed to max 60K+ pressures that can and will shorten brass life in the 95. Any of those bullets will give excellent retention and penetration well exceeding anything required on this continent and I am including elk, moose, and large bear in that scenario.

[SteveR]

Gents,
Recently I purchased an 1895 Winchester (new model) which had been rebarreled to 9.3x62. The entire rifle has been hard chromed. It has a scout scope mounted on the barrel. Today I hunted opening rifle deer season in Nebraska with it. I shot the second nicest buck I have ever bagged. A big bodied 4x4. I also shot a doe. Two of the Prvi Partizan 285 grain bullets remained in the buck's off side near the bottom of it's neck. I have not weighed the bullets yet. One had the core separated from the cup the core was disintegrated. Both showed fair expansion. I will try to post some measurements of the recovered bullets after my wife and I finish our tenderloin dinner. It is a fun and unique rifle in an uncommon caliber and configuration. I like it so far.

Neat idea, and the lower pressures of the 9.3x62 will keep from ruining that action.

I have a few 98 and 96's chambered in 9.3x62mm and have had great results with both actions. I use the Privi 286gr bullets also and have had no problems with them so far. If I was to go to Africa, I would buy a better bullet, but for whitetails anf black bear, the Privi's work fine.

I also like not being beat up shooting the 9.3x62, recoil is more like a push, and makes it much more enjoyable to shoot.

Steve

[Bosco]

Stepped away for a few days. Three shots were put on the animal. The first shot was quartering away at around 36 yards lazer measured. This round is assumed to have exited. The second shot was approximately 12 yards across a creek bed also quartering away. The final shot was approximately 9 yards when the animal was laying on its side taking its last breaths, I was trying to be humane and help him along. The two bullets which were recovered measured up as follows.
1. 249.5 grains 88% weight retention. Expansion to .818 for 223%.
2. 92.6 grains 32% weight retention. Expansion to .955 for 261%.

O.S.O.K., I too was surprised to find that the bullets remained in the skin ON THE SAME SIDE as two of the shots.
The first shot was made entering on the animal's left. The second two were made on the animal's right. The bullet's were recovered form the animal's right side half way up the neck. Large muscles in the neck had separated from the wounds. One who had not deboned many animals may not have noticed. This hide was the thickest that I have witnessed on a whitetail deer. It was a mature buck with quite a lot of fat on the animal.

Yes the last two shots were very close, but I still might have guessed that the one bullet would have held together. As it is I will likely be looking at Noslers both for accuracy, the Prvis were not grouping great, and weight retention, although I am unlikely to duplicate my results exactly.

[Marlin32]

Hope you don't duplicate them exactly, I don't want to help haul another one of your deer out of the creek! Going to have to teach you how to spine shoot I guess.

[Bosco]

Thanks Marlin32. And no, we don't need an EXACT repeat do we?

[Marlin32]

YOu had to know that was coming sooner or later?
Curious, I think their is a smaller like say 250 or so grain bullet for that. Wondering what the trajectory on it is? I will do some more research (researching 8mm and other Metric cartridges and sometimes get side tracked)

ANyway, I thought maybe the smaller bullet would be better for longer range apps like Elk?

[Bosco]

I don't mind shooting a 250 grain bullet, but I want it in a .338 for a sd of .313. The 250 in .366 is an sd of .267 which is comparable to a 175 grain in 30 caliber, not my idea of an elk round, although I am sure many here routinely do it with less. I also like traditional bullet weights for caliber if possible. Hunters take issue with higher weight because bullets don't open on smaller game. Well, clearly these two small examples opened up. No "pinhole" here. Better trajectory would be great, but if long range was the order of the day I would not prefer a scout scope. If I want long range elk I have a 338 win mag which needs a scope for Christmas and would fill this niche nicely. For the 9.3 I think a better quality bullet is in order.

I am perfectly willing to admit that I may be over thinking the sd factor, but for now I am "stuck in my rut".

Marlin32, thank God we could go out north with that deer because if we had to go south I think that I would have had to bone that sucker out at the bottom of the creek bed!

[Marlin32]

I understand the SD thing, but I tend not to over think it depending on the situation as I shoot 170gr bullets in my 32 special, when that same weight bullet is available to me in 30-30 which would give it better SD, but experience tells me no difference (or not enough)
But that is bullets in different sizes, not same caliber.

I too tend toward heavy bullets. If you have a 338 Win Mag (and can shoot it) then you covered for longer distance big game.

Me, I am still stuggling, looking at 8mm and 8mm Wildcats right now. Kind of stuck on the 3200 Hawk again. (which from what I can tell is a 8mm-280 wild cat) From Hawk website, says a bit more powder room than the '06 case. Anyway, throws a 200gr out at 2840 and a 225 out at 2703. That should get the job done, either one, (I would try a 210 NP I am thinking) but I wonder about Trajectory? 7" drop @ 300? 10"? I don't know. Maybe better off with the 325wsm?

Then I get into the whole 8mmGNR thing, maybe in a Ruger #1, what does that do me?

[gunner69]

I enjoyed this read. I just bought a CZ550FS in 9.3x62mm. It is a caliber to be reconned with, as it is a dangerous game cartridge used worldwide. Nice choice, enjoy.....

[Thunder50]

IIRC, the prvi bullets are known for rapid expansion, as some consider them a bit soft. If I was going to shoot an Elk with my 9.3, I would use a Hornady or Nosler partition

[gunner69]

My rifle is coming with two boxes of Norma Vulcan 286gr bullets. From what I have read the 286gr is the most popular loading. I hope to deer hunt with it next weekend. Everything I reads points to one heck of an effective caliber. I hope you enjoy yours, as well as I hope to enjoy mine.

[Bosco]

Does anyone know if the 1895 could take the pressure, and generally be reconfigured for the 9.3x64 Brenneke?

[BenT]

Zeglin did alot of calibers on the newer Browning 1895's , Z-hat custom. The original ones had head space problems with 30-06 pressures.

[gunner69]

The CZ 550FS liked my first reload, a nosler 286gr w/50.0gr of IMR-4064, Fed LR primer, real well. Right at 1" at 100 yards with my Leopold VX-R 2-7 Firedot scope. Was lucky enough to get a shot at a doe at 86yards, verified by my Simmons rangefinder. One shot, One Doe. Didn't even take a step just dropped dead no meat damage either. Sorry, my son took his "squeeze", and my camera, to Florida with him to celebrate New Years.

[Bill in Oregon]

Gunner: I took a CZ in 9,3 with 4X Leupold to Namibia in 2007. I used Barnes triple shock 250s and Re15 handloads. Turned out the PH was carrying the same gun and load! This old classic just gets the job done.

[Arminius]

As for factory loads, get Norma 286, Alaska or Vulcan ( Vulcan will open sooner, and drop more with distance )

Or RWS, or Blaser, or LAPUA, or the Winchester 9,3 x 62 with the 286 Nosler Partition bullet, which is loaded by Norma.

Avoid Sellier and Bellot: SOFT bullets!

I would NEVER consider the 9.3 x 64 in a 95 action!!!

Hermann

[Bosco]

Regarding the Privi ammo, this season I learned why experienced hunters advise always cycling the ammo one has through the action.

Upon removing an unfired cartridge from the action, the bullet on three rounds was left in the barrel, as it was grabbed by the rifling, and the case was ejected spilling powder everywhere! This caused the action to jam as the magazine was filled with powder. Not fun!

I am going to try some other ammo before sending the rifle to either Mic or Zhat to have the chamber lengthened.

This is why I ask if the action could withstand the 64 Brenneke. If I must pay the money for the action work to be done anyway, perhaps I could get another 300 feet per second.

Interested in your thoughts guys. Thanks.

[SteveR]

Regarding the Privi ammo, this season I learned why experienced hunters advise always cycling the ammo one has through the action.

Upon removing an unfired cartridge from the action, the bullet on three rounds was left in the barrel, as it was grabbed by the rifling, and the case was ejected spilling powder everywhere! This caused the action to jam as the magazine was filled with powder. Not fun!

I am going to try some other ammo before sending the rifle to either Mic or Zhat to have the chamber lengthened.

This is why I ask if the action could withstand the 64 Brenneke. If I must pay the money for the action work to be done anyway, perhaps I could get another 300 feet per second.

Interested in your thoughts guys. Thanks.

Have you measured the overall length of the Privi rounds? I have shot many, many Privi 9.3x62 factory loaded rounds and they have all been the correct length.

Your 9.3x62 is maybe a 9.3x57, you should do a chamber cast.

What is the magazine overall length? You may not be able to cycle the 9.3x64.

Also I would worry about the strength of the 95's action to hold up to the pressures, I have read many places(and other posters in this thread) that the 95 couldn't hold up to 3006 pressures.

Steve

[gunner69]

If your 1895 were an old originol I would agree that the pressures could be a problem. The modern made 1895 is a different story. You can be sure that, due to legal problems, your modern rifle with its modern steel can handle the job. I would definetly call the gunsmith that installed the barrel to make sure it is a 9.3x62 chambering and not the 9.3x57 just to be sure. I have shot Privi and never had a problem, you may have a "short" chamber.

I have a modern 1886 repo in 45-70, and you have me wondering if it is possible to have it converted to 9.3x62? Darn!!!

[JFE]

IIRC CIP 9.3x62 chambers have a long throat, around 10mm in length. As your rifle is a custom you might want check whether it has a CIP spec chamber and throat. A short throat would cause problems as you're experiencing.

[Bosco]

Could be a short throat.