On-T Win.94 Hammer- Update-Update

[pwl44m]

I decided to clean My early 94/25-35 yesterday. Took the wood off just to get an idea of things. No barrel date but a bunch of other stamps. Not much blue on this Gun but it looks pretty good. The bore cleaned up pretty nice,little pitting with strong rifleing. This gun is definitly Not like new. I posted this Gun with pics when I bought it several months ago.
Ok the reason for the post today. When I got it the hammer had 2 ridges on the side of it where the bolt pushes it into the cocked position. I couldn't figure out why it would be like this. When I cleaned it up I decided to remedy this. I used a sharpening stone to slowly grind the ridges off. I was satisfied with it until I worked the action. The Hammer would not stay back but did if I cocked it with My thumb. It appears that someone tried to hone that part of the Hammer to make it easier to Lever. They got it too far and it wouldn't stay cocked. So they peened the sides of the Hammer to (mushroom if U please) the part that rides on the bolt. Now the bolt can't push it down far enough to stay cocked. So I will be on a search for a used Hammer to fix this prob. I will try all the usual places first.

[J Miller]

Perry,

I don't remember what vintage that rifle is but here is some things to check on.
How much up and down play does the bolt have when it's fully back?
I've seen them with enough play that the bolt can't push the hammer back enough to make the full cock notch.
I've also seen the top of the hammer worn as well as the under side of the bolt.

Just places to check for wear.

Joe

[pwl44m]

Thx Joe, while playing with it I did push down on the Bolt and it still didn't cock. I compared it to Hammers on some of My other Winchesters and it is definitly worn or ground down. I have heard horror stories about taking these things apart (the easy part) then getting them back together. Can I do it,I know U don't know Me but please tell Me any Idiot can do it or should I invest in a CD Tutorial. I would really like to take it completely apart because of the crud and gum on just the surface parts.
As for the manuf date I don't remember, I will check on it. I do know it is 6 digit.
PERRY

[Nath]

How about getting it built up with a TIG welder and refinnishing it?

Best wishes.

Nath.

[Borregos]

How about getting it built up with a TIG welder and refinnishing it?

Best wishes.

Nath.

That would be the way to go I think

[Swampman]

Ther are some pretty good videos on the net that show how they come apart and hence reassemble I suppose.

[J Miller]

Perry,

The 1894, 94 et all are a piece of cake to take apart and put back together. The only rifle simpler is the Marlins.

If you get hung up just PM me and I'll walk you through it.

Joe

[pwl44m]

How about getting it built up with a TIG welder and refinnishing it?

Best wishes.

Nath.

That was one of the first thoughts running through My head but I was wondering if I could do it. I was once told by an instructor in an Auto AC class that if it is broke "U caint hurt it". While that may be true to a certain extent I can see where U could break it worse. Worst scenario would be a new Hammer.
@ Joe, I will keep U in mind, I want to go shoot this Gun.

[Griff]

Perry,

Shoot me a pm with your email and I'll send you a dis-assembly/assembly and quasi-repair manual. I have a new hammer w/stirrup that I can measure so that you'd have the correct distance you need to build yours back up. Any machine shop worth its salt should be capable of this work.

[J Miller]

Perry,

Shoot me a pm with your email and I'll send you a dis-assembly/assembly and quasi-repair manual. I have a new hammer w/stirrup that I can measure so that you'd have the correct distance you need to build yours back up. Any machine shop worth its salt should be capable of this work.

Hey Griff,
When you make Perry a copy how about making me one too. I know the ins and out in my head but a printed manual would be great to have.
Joe

[pwl44m]

GRIFF, pm sent Thx

[Hagler]

Perry,

This should help you to see what is involved in tearing down & putting together a circa-1976 '94 (SN 4,537,XXX):

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm

Shawn

[pwl44m]

Perry,

This should help you to see what is involved in tearing down & putting together a circa-1976 '94 (SN 4,537,XXX):

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm

Shawn

Really, how hard can that be. Read the whole thing and it sounds like a piece of Cake. Only 1 prob. It takes a lot to get Me to cuss so what would be a substitute ?
One thing has to happen first though. That pic U saw of My work bench in earlier posts has got to be cleaned up.
Question- this being a very early 94, will it be the same ?

[J Miller]

Perry,

There is some minor differences between the pre-64s and the one in the Cast Bullets pictorial. Nothing major though.

Joe

[pwl44m]

Well U talked Me into it. Pretty much of a snap to dissasemble. I can see where there might be a tendancy to cuss on reassembly,hope I can keep My cool.
On the carrier, Mine has 2 screws instead of 1 all the way through. Also I noticed My carrier didn't swing all the way down like the one in the tutorial. Now it didn't mention anything about loosening the Hammer spring screw on reassembly but I can't see how it can be done without doing so.
Have to get the Hammer replacement or repair done then worry about reassembly- Oh Joy.
Took a couple pics after I got it apart and it is really nasty inside, hope it shows up on the pics. I didn't get a good pic of the hammer before My battery went dead. I really should get a new set of screws but they wouldn't match the rest of the Gun- we'll see.
This Gun had a scope at one time with the screw holes filled in, much like the gun in the tutorial.
And last but not least, A pic of My two safes installed in My new Gun Room. I don't know what I am going to do with 3rd Safe. Maybe it would make a good decoy outside the Gun Room with some junkers in it.

[Griff]

Perry,

Did you receive the email?

[pwl44m]

Perry,

Did you receive the email?

Not yet, was wondering if U got My addy.

[Griff]

Perry,
Did you receive the email?

Not yet, was wondering if U got My addy.

Yep, found it sitting in my outbox! Attachment is too big for my "aircard", I'll send it again 2morrow when I can get on a wifi connection.

[pwl44m]

Thx Griff, it was waiting for me this morning.Started reading right away,those parts look like My parts. Hammers r hard to find. I can order one for $63,it will be case hardened.
Has anyone heard of "Jack First" for gun parts, that is where the hammer is. Old guy at a gun shop found it, was going to order it but held off till I get My ser# to Him. My hammer is blue, don't know if this is correct but I like the idea of a case hardened one.

[Mike D.]

Perry, there is a used blued 1894 hammer and stirrup on GB with a BIN price of 55 bucks. Looks OK to me.

[Griff]

Jack First was an "old guy" sellin' Winchester parts when I was a young man. None better, buy with confidence.

[pwl44m]

Been a busy Lad this week, no time to play or should I say too tired to play. Been hauling off scrap iron for 3 days. Got a lot cleaned up, theres more but it is hard work. Blew a high pressure hose on My Cat.
@ Mike D, I couldn't find that hammer on GB. Tried everything I could think of to no avail. Prolly go ahead and order the new one tomorrow.
According to blue book this Gun was made in 1904,ser #3061xx. what does Madis and others say ?
Did any of these Guns come with Case Hard Hammers ?

[pwl44m]

New Hammer doesn't fit. Ordered a new hammer from Jack First. My old one was checkered on the thumb part and the new one just has lines (which is correct). anyway got the stirrup changed, put it back together and the Bolt won't ride over the Hammer, it won't even manually cock. It will go to the safety but not full cock. Do these require some filing and fitting or should they at least fit right and then some adjustment.
Wasn't a real big deal putting it back together, had a little trouble but not much. The Hammer was the biggest problem then getting the Hammer Spring screw started. (wasn't even tempted to cuss). I think I will take it to the shop that ordered the Hammer for Me. He said if I had trouble to bring it in. I am sure it is an after mkt Hammer and therein might be the problem.
I installed the Hammer into the lower tang before putting it in the rifle just to check it out. I had trouble with the sear releasing the Hammer, the Trigger just didn't want to go far enough. I'm thinking I might be dealing with a worn parts problem but nothing has excessive play to My thinking. We will see what a trip to town brings, in the mean time - any suggestions ?

[J Miller]

The earlier 94s like yours did indeed come with the checkered hammers. The serrated hammers did not appear until just before or just after WW II.
I don't know if that means it must be fitted or not. Are you sure you got the stirrup in right side up?

win94action2.jpg

win94action1.jpg

Notice how the stirrup curves down away from the hammer. If it's in backwards it can hang things up a bit.

Joe

[pwl44m]

Yep , that is how I installed it. That is a very detailed pic Joe. Thx Holding the hammers side by side they look the same.

[J Miller]

Well, if everything is assembled correctly then it could be a case of tolerances being out or as you said, worn parts. I wish we were closer, seeing it in person would help.

Double check the trigger stop / trigger spring and the hammer springs. It just sounds like something is binding up.

Joe

[pwl44m]

I took the trigger stop and trigger spring out and the trigger traveled farther giving Me a good gap between the sear and the hammer. But with everything installed it doesn't want to release. even at that it doesn't fix the cocking problem. but I aint cussin yet.
Perry

[Mike D.]

You should have stayed with the same type hammer you had, the correct knurled type. The later grooved top hammers sometimes will not fit on pre-1920 guns, don't ask me why. Check out this GB auction currently ongoing. I guarantee that this 1907 hammer and spring will function in your similar vintage rifle.

winchester 1894 hammer assembly made 1907

Auction # 253721912

[pwl44m]

Thx Mike, I contacted the seller about buy it now. Yea I signed up on GB. The Guy that has the hammer has other parts too. Matter of fact enough parts to build a 38-55 minus recvr. Hmmmm
Btw, I can take this other hammer back which is what I think I will do.