308 Defense rifle, ruger gunsite or Savage 99.

[Canuck Bob]

One rifle I build occasionally in my head is a 308, properly 7.62X51 NATO, equivalent of the LE Jungle Carbine. A militia defense rifle for home and neighborhood. I would be happy with my LE No.5 but I'm a lefty. It seems sensible to have a militia defense rifle not look like a battle weapon so the folks your willing to defend won't take it away! Also I always feel a decent barrel length and long range capability match a 7.62 rather than carbine handiness. As my Dad counselled, it is a darn poor pair of legs that will let your face take a beating. Besides that is why 12 gauge buckshot got invented.

The new Ruger Gunsite Carbine in left comes real close with a 22" barrel, but at close to a thousand bucks and a military look. However I have always thought a clip fed Savage 99 would do the same in a lever. They are often available cheap and barely used and with a peep and a couple spare mags might do the trick just as well.

Opinions welcome. I know these threads are a bit silly. Any hnter armed with his/her favorite deer rifle can lay down serious cover and whack away effectively at 500 meters.

[olyinaz]

Remington pump rifle. Looks like a deer gun if you get a rifle with wood stocks. Add a high cap mag and you can lay down some serious fire.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Oly

[tman]

Remington pump rifle. Looks like a deer gun if you get a rifle with wood stocks. Add a high cap mag and you can lay down some serious fire.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Oly

Yeah, a couple of 10 clips and u are set. Mines an 06, though.

[Canuck Bob]

Remington pump rifle. Looks like a deer gun if you get a rifle with wood stocks. Add a high cap mag and you can lay down some serious fire.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Oly

Yeah, a couple of 10 clips and u are set. Mines an 06, though.

10 clips are only allowed on bolts here I think.

Pumps were never as popular were I grew up. Most farmers were riflemen and not shotgunners. It always seemed to be a bolt or a lever action. Mind you the pump is a very natural action to operate.

[iceman]

I just put a Williams FP peep on my new to me 99C. I hope to get to the range before the weekend to wring it out. Finding extra mags might be an issue, but you can always reload from the top pretty easy if you had to. I am expecting 1 1/2" groups maybe 2" at 100 yards. You could really mess up someones day with that.

[FWiedner]

Political correctness twists my drawers.

A militia weapon should look, perform, and function exactly like a battle weapon, because that's exactly what it is.

If one of the neighbors thinks themselves of such genteel persuasion that they would refuse to be defended by a militiaman with such an arm, then let them go undefended.

I'm sure they'll have plenty of time to smirk and smarm about their great stand on principle while they are herded to the camps or lay somewhere bleeding out.

[Canuck Bob]

Political correctness twists my drawers.

A militia weapon should look, perform, and function exactly like a battle weapon, because that's exactly what it is.

If one of the neighbors thinks themselves of such genteel persuasion that they would refuse to be defended by a militiaman with such an arm, then let them go undefended.

I'm sure they'll have plenty of time to smirk and smarm about their great stand on principle while they are herded to the camps or lay somewhere bleeding out.

Its not political correctness on my part. Its the reality of shooting under Canadian law. I know we believe the same things but I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I also have a dandy Jungle Carbine and this is my battle rifle. I can click off a mag full of ten pretty quick off the left shoulder. If push came to shove in this way it will be a Lee Enfield battle rifle doing the deed and there is no denying that rifle is all business and no pleasure.

It is sad that people don't see the benefit of trained riflemen living amongst them. I'd rather depend on a neighbor than a politician. Vichy France tells that story too well.

[J Miller]

I agree with FWiedner about political correctness.

That said, down here in the states, inner city dwellers and those brain washed by the antis have developed a phobia about any black rifle with black furniture. ESPECIALLY if it is a bottom feeder.

However, a wood stocked bolt action rifle doesn't draw much attention from them. They're looked at as obsolete useless relics of a bygone age. What they don't know will benefit us. If you are looking at a true battle rifle with a decent magazine capacity then I figure I have two of the best of them. The old short lived 2a No1 Mk3 Ishapore 7.62 x 51 NATO rifle, and my No.4 Mk1 * in .303 Brit. Nobody pays them any attention. But they'll get the job done if the person using it can shoot even remotely good.
Ammo for the 7.62 is easy to come by too. It's a win-win situation.

The only thing wrong with this class of rifle is none are made left handed like you need. I guess the military trained the troops to shoot right handed weather they liked it or not.

JMHO

Joe

[tman]

Perhaps, under your circumstances, a 94 30-30 might serve u well. It doesn't need any modifactions, chambered in a non military cartridge that u have to defend against in court.

[Sixgun]

Opinions welcome. I know these threads are a bit silly. Any hnter armed with his/her favorite deer rifle can lay down serious cover and whack away effectively at 500 meters.

No Bob, these threads are not silly. WE are going to see some serious problems in OUR lifetime.

I am also a lefty (long guns only--don't ask) and I have never felt hampered with ANY long gun, whether its a lever, bolt, pump or semi.---practice makes perfect

No, on to the fun things in life. Yep, a .308 is a good common sense decision in a caliber. It will do a lot. I believe any good deer/varmint rifle with a flat trajectory is an OK choice---as long as you "know" that gun and if you know it, you can keep the "varmints" at least 500-1000 yards away. Get the one that you feel most comfortable with, whether it s lever, bolt or a pump. Firepower and ease of reloading makes for lots of sense.

These bums are capable of anything--Its up to YOU to take care of yourself, your family and your community.------- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44139432?GT1=43001

Everyone knows me to be levergun man with cast bullets, but when the islam hit the fan, my choice will be my M1-A, while my wife will be holding the M-4 .223.------------Sixgun

[2ndovc]

Had my hands on one of the Rugers a month or so ago.

Neat, but to me it was too long and really akward with that goofy mag.

I call this one my "Poor Man's Scout Rifle".

A Navy Arms/Gibbs Rifle Co. Rework of an Ishapore Enfield in 7.62x51.
Picked it up for $50 not long ago, though I see them go for tripple that.



It's not my Springfield SOCOM 16 but on the other hand I don't have to worry about
banging it up. And it's darned fun too!

Between the Ruger and the Savage I'd rather have the Savage.

jb

[AJMD429]

However, a wood stocked bolt action rifle doesn't draw much attention from them.

Unless they have a scope. . . er, I mean a 'sniper' scope...

If you want serious long-range capability in the realm of .308/.30-06, I think the Savage would do just fine. I know the Savage isn't a 'match' rifle, but if you want pin-point accuracy at that range, I'd expect you'd need more than the Ruger 'Scout' rifle anyway.

If it has a 'scope' the anti's will call it a 'sniper' weapon and want to confiscate it anyway.
Put really good peeps on it, and it will serve to pretty long range for most purposes (i.e. making someone 500 yards away modify their behavior seriously). It wouldn't be a 'sniper' weapon anyway, unless it is a custom-build snazzy job that probably would have to be a bolt, single, or semi, from a practical/realistic standpoint.

Don't write-off the .45-70 or .444 Marlin or other such rounds for long-distance shooting, either.

If I had a well-functioning Savage 99 and a Ruger Scout rifle, both in .308, and needed to grab one to go into the unknown, I'd probably grab the Ruger, due to the greater camming action and strength I think it would have with 'questionable' ammo, and very similar firepower.

OTOH, if I wanted to have a fascinating, cool, historic, and VERY PRACTICAL .308 that would serve well right NOW, plus be acceptable in terms of crisis, I'd pick the Savage.

[madman4570]

Also don't rule out something like this in 30-06
http://www.ktpguns.com/interior.php/pid/28/gid/156626
Got the semi-auto thing going on,but only looks like a little old deer gun!

[BigSky56]

Bob I'd find a 99 in 308 or 300 my 99 can stay with most bolt guns. By doing a couple three things in the forearm area you can make a 99 group. danny

[vancelw]

Remington pump rifle. Looks like a deer gun if you get a rifle with wood stocks. Add a high cap mag and you can lay down some serious fire.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Oly

Yes! The first time I laid eyes on a Ruger Gunsite, I thought "I'd love to have a Remington pump in .308 Win set up just like that." Flash hider, ghost ring sights, durable weather finish, removeable high cap mags... Hogs, bear, zombies, foreign invaders.... better watch out. I'd want a black laminated wood stock for durability and accuracy, but a synthetic would help keep the weight down.

I know they make a .223 Rem pump that takes AR mags, but its not enough for me.

[Canuck Bob]

As a lefty I shot the FN FAL from my left shoulder and no-one complained. I was also a pretty good shot when I got to a military range so the sarge left well enough alone I suspect.

I know this is quite debateable but I still think a solid steel bolt is the simpliest machine and therefore the most dependable in the worst conditions for a citizen soldier.

For a lefty the good old lever has some real benefits. It is truly a lefty. One can keep the trigger hand on the grip and feed ammo with the off hand as it is depleted. One time I could hold a bead and stuff ammo in my 444.

Someone mentioned the 30-06, loaded stout with 165 BTs it is never a wrong choice.

[Lastmohecken]

I am a big fan of the old Browning Steel Framed BLR's in .308 Win. They work great for a Lefty (me) and they are usually quite accurate. However, I tried a Wolf Nato round through it, and it seemed a little sticky, So be careful with any rifle chambered for .308 win, as the Nato verson is not always a good substitute for the civilian .308 stuff.

As far a semi-auto rifles go for the lefty, I have found the FAL to be pretty friendly to use, and mine has been very reliable, but I have read not to shoot the cheap steel cased ammo in it. So, stay with brass cased stuff at least, or take a chance on a stuck case or case head seperation according to the experts.

[Canuck Bob]

Alas the FN FAL is a prohibited weapon here. I could die carrying one for my country but not shoot targets and deer!

I've never handled one but the new lefty Shorttrac Browning Auto might have possibilities.

[6pt-sika]

Hmmmm for a 308 I have a nice early 60's Mannlicher Schoenauer with a period Redfield 3-9 !




For an 06 I have a also nice Pre 1970 Remington 700BDL with a period B&L 2-8 scope .



"If" and it's a mighty big if !

If I were contemplating a Tactical/Defense 308 I'd go find a Pre 1990 Remington 700 Short action , send it off to Shilen , Hart or Lilja and have it barreled in eaither 260 , 7-08 , 308 or 338 Federal with a medium heavy contoured stainless barrel . When it got home I'd put it in a HS Precision stock and more then likely install an after market triger that I could get down to a pound and up to 3 pounds with NO creep . Then I'd use a set of Leupold bases and rings and mount a nice Leupold VX3 4.5-14x on top and work up a load to suit me for bad guys and other hairy critters !

Oh yeah and "if" I were to build this tactical/defense abomination I would have the barrel cut to 20 inches and threaded for a silencer

[Les Staley]

If anyone is interested, I fondeled a lefty Ruger Scout 77 in 308 at the "Fort" gunshop in Big Timber Montana.. just accross the block from Shilo Arms and down the street from where they build C. Sharps arms.. .. that would have been Sunday morning, 8-14-11.. Just a note from your local enabler....Les Their phone # 406 932 5992

[Tumbleweeds II]

Those deer rifles won't cut it, because the barrels are too light for sustained fire. I have a 99F that I love, but 3 rounds is it before the group starts walking.

How about this: screw a heavy barrel onto a 7600 .308 and get a sack of short mags. Add iron sights, and a QR mount so you can keep a scope hidden somewhere until you need it. Then put it in a rack next to a couple of 870s. Set a box of 12 ga duck loads next to one 870, set a box of 20 ga dove loads next to the other 870, and set a box of .410 cartridges next to the 7600.

Paint the stock pink.

[Beaker]

I am also a lefty and my M1A-M14 is very lefty friendly.

[O.S.O.K.]

10 round mags only legal on bolt guns huh... then that pretty much narrows it down. Just get the Ruger Gunsite and be done with it. It's specificly set-up for your need/use.

And a stock Ishipure 7.62x51 would be a good back up for that, though, I would personally hold my nose and modify it with an aperture sight (50 year old eyes are beginning to balk at the standard irons).

[olyinaz]

Hey, if you really want to play hard with a Remington pump rifle, Accuracy Systems has you covered:





Engage all targets in the open!

Oly

[donw]

I agree with FWiedner about political correctness.

That said, down here in the states, inner city dwellers and those brain washed by the antis have developed a phobia about any black rifle with black furniture. ESPECIALLY if it is a bottom feeder.

However, a wood stocked bolt action rifle doesn't draw much attention from them. They're looked at as obsolete useless relics of a bygone age. What they don't know will benefit us. If you are looking at a true battle rifle with a decent magazine capacity then I figure I have two of the best of them. The old short lived 2a No1 Mk3 Ishapore 7.62 x 51 NATO rifle, and my No.4 Mk1 * in .303 Brit. Nobody pays them any attention. But they'll get the job done if the person using it can shoot even remotely good.
Ammo for the 7.62 is easy to come by too. It's a win-win situation.

The only thing wrong with this class of rifle is none are made left handed like you need. I guess the military trained the troops to shoot right handed weather they liked it or not.

JMHO

Joe

you might also include levers in that statement. most 'urbanites' view levers as "Old time cowboy guns"

[6pt-sika]

Those deer rifles won't cut it, because the barrels are too light for sustained fire. I have a 99F that I love, but 3 rounds is it before the group starts walking.

You may very well be correct .

However those two will work for me for awhile !

Plus they're bought and PAID for

[Paladin]

Remington pump rifle. Looks like a deer gun if you get a rifle with wood stocks. Add a high cap mag and you can lay down some serious fire.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Oly

Because my AR 10 was illegal in California and all my other 308s had suppressor mounts.