Why The Hate For Saddle Rings??

[COSteve]

I've noticed that many here don't like saddle rings on a carbine. I'm wondering why. I for one like them. What say you who don't like them? What is it that you don't like about them?

[Terry Murbach]

I DO NOT THINK THEY HATE 'EM, STEVE, BUT IT IS MOST OBVIOUS THEY SURE AS THE DICKENS DO NOT UNDERSTAND 'EM !! WHEN I LOOK AT THE BRAND NEW MARLIN 30-30 SRC I BOUGHT A WHILE BACK FOR ALL OF THREE HUNNERT BUCKAROOS I FAIRLY SWOON AT IT'S BRASS ---BRASS MIND YOU---SADDLE RING. be still my heart.....

[COSteve]

Now you're talking! I had a fancy Win '94 way back with a brass loading gate, trigger, and saddle ring that I though was 'the cat's meow'. To bad it was such a poor shooter cause I really loved the faux case hardened receiver with the brass trim. However, pretty guns that don't shoot well don't stay in my employ long at all so down the road it went.

[jnyork]

I have a 25-35 carbine with a ring, I dont hate it a bit.

[gamekeeper]

Thanks to Joe Miller I put one on my 9422 to match my 94 .30/30.

[earlmck]

Don't know that I hate the little thing, but it is just a doohicky without a function for anything I do with my guns. The only carbine I have sporting such a beast still has it on, with a little leather string looped through to keep it quiet. But I'm not looking to go out of my way to add rings to anything else I own.

[pwl44m]

I Like them, People go out of Their to buy one, it adds value. It has that special "RING" To it. Say it with Me " Saddle Ring Carbine" SEE.
Oh MY bad, U asked why People don't like them.

[awp101]

It has that special "RING" To it.

So to speak...

I'm ambivalent to them. I don't have a horse or a bike to strap it to so as long as it doesn't get in my way it's no big deal.

[J Miller]

Steve,

I don't have any use either for saddle rings, but I have two Win 94 Trappers with them and I've left them on. Easy as can be to unscrew them and put in a plug screw, but I kind of like 'em.

I'm also confused by the hatred I've seen from a lot of folks for the saddle rings. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Joe

[DPris]

For me, no hate, just has no purpose and the staple type flops around & wears the bluing.
May be traditional as hell, but utterly useless on my guns.

On the more modern Winchester stud arrangement, I've left the ring there on one '94 I have because, even though it serves no purpose FOR ME, it at least doesn't flop around & doesn't contact the frame surface.

The '51 Model 94 that was Grandpa's is the "Eastern" version, never had a ring, and its absence has never been the slightest inconvenience whatever.
Had it come with one, I would have left it in place out of respect for a vintage gun, but on non-classic, non-collectible, and brand new versions, it goes.

For most of us, it's a pointless carry-over from times and places when it did have a function.

I don't think it's a matter of not understanding anything. If you like the ring on your guns, I wouldn't assume you're not understanding something just because I see no reason to have one, I'd just assume you have your reasons for liking it.
A little courtesy in the other direction would be appreciated.
Denis

[RIHMFIRE]

I like my saddle ring carbine...
got a scabbard and saddle too!
but I dont have a horse.............yet!

[Mike D.]

I fail to understand the mis-thinking and confusion concerning sling rings. They really do not make excessive noise and are not a negative when carried in the field. This is sort of like an internet "fact" where one person swears that it's a problem and others automatically swear that it's so. Sure, if you swing the gun around like a club it's gonna make some tiny "clinks", but if carried normally the ring is virtually soundless.

[DPris]

"Mis-thinking"?
Geeze, Louise, some of us just see no reason for them to be there.
I've changed sights and done other modifications to my three primary working Marlins & never gotten any outrage over modifying to meet my needs & preferences.

Others swap sights on everything from Winchesters through Marlins to Rossis. Recoil pads are added, scopes are mounted, safeties are blocked or removed, levers are swapped for larger versions, all of which change the "classic" form of a factory gun.
I'd ask, from the other end of the spectrum- Why the emotion over removing a useless ring?

In my case, it's got nothing to do with the Internet. It's based on many years with many leverguns.
Denis

[bdhold]

I can't imagine a cooler touch on an original frontier saddle-ring carbine.

I've never been in a position to ride a horse while packing a carbine, so I can't comment on their usefulness.
I can see how they could be obnoxious busting the brush on foot, especially while hunting.

[airedaleman]

Mike D, thanks for using the proper terminology... and you're right, they don't make any noise unless you shake the gun like a baby rattle

[Hobie]

Beats me, I leave 'em on...

[Charles]

The saddle ring is a hold over from the days of horse Cavalry, when it was a needful thing, to keep a Trooper on horse from loosing his carbine. It has just sorta stuck around, as an adornment on what folks consider to be carbines these days. They are more nostalgia than practical.

I know there are folks who get creative and find a use for them, but not me. I think they are a noisy, jingling nuance.

[Pisgah]

This discussion reminds me of a conversation with my ex-wife. Any disagreement with anything she thought and she would say, "You're calling me stupid!"

No, dear. I don't "hate" saddle rings; I just have no use for one on MY gun. If you do, Lord love you, and enjoy!

Oh -- and just because I think Obama has been a disastrous president doesn't mean
I am a racist, either.

[Hagler]

Gents,

A quote from Matthew Quigley might work, here:

"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

Shawn

[.45colt]

I don't get it. If ya dont like it take it off and chuck it in the river. if you do alot of huntin with that gun just get one of these and get the load off your arms.http://www.castbullet.com/srsling.htm

[2ndovc]

And I like lanyard rings on pistols too!

jb

[Lefty Dude]

As a Lefty I find it is always in my way. I removed the one on my 73 Uberti Carbine. Now I am asked, "whats the two holes for in the receiver". The ring & staple now resides in a little zip-lock bag and can be installed very quickly if needed.

This is my preference. I do it, "because I Can".

[Old Savage]

No use for them and they are at times in the way. I would take it off if it was easy but not going alter the rifle to do it. No intention of riding horses. If others like them and/or have a use for them - GREAT!

[Noah Zark]

If you like saddle rings, fine. I don't.

I don't have a saddle, nor a hoss to go under the saddle, and I don't care for a little round steel or brass ring banging around the side of my rifle making noise at best and scratching off the finish at worst. Sure, I can wrap the ring but then if I take the wrap off in a few years the ring's likely going to be rusty. I don't see the upside.

100-120 years ago I probably would have thought differently.

Noah

[TNBigBore]

Although they really don't make much noise, I find them distracting when shooting or carrying a rifle. I am always trying to make sure they are not clinking against the side of the receiver when my attention should be on other things. They are even more distracting with the leather strips. I just don't care for them.

[jerry b]

Just another doodad that has no use. Rattles and stuff, too.

[gak]

Dpris wrote:
"The '51 Model 94 that was Grandpa's is the "Eastern" version, never had a ring, and its absence has never been the slightest inconvenience whatever."

Save perhaps for an odd special order, all war-era and postwar Pre 64s came without rings--no "eastern" terminology still used or needed. The "eastern" nomenclature is/was typically used to differentiate when there was any differentiating to do--Pre War. So, I leave the post war Pre 64s alone too--they didn't have a ring to begin with, and value likely would be effected with any such modification.. Post 64s to me are fair game generally. For the same reason as stated with the Rossis below, a ring sorta dresses one up to a point of respectability the (finally) nicer 77/78-80 or so 94s notwithstanding

+1 COSteve--add me to the saddle ring fan club; I really like the things. And I'm a lefty too--never been an annoyance to me. All my many Rossis since my first in 1980 have had them or had them added. This included an early Legacy (LSI Puma) whose "92 originality" I figured was already "messed up" with the lousy safety...and so I didn't mind adding a non-original late 94 type--looked just right and classed it right up. Unless a Rossi was destined for some real walnut furniture and such--where I might want to add a proper staple type just because--I wouldn't hesitate to add another late type 94 ring to one.Properly placed, they look right at home.

Fine guns that they are otherwise, the Rossis generally lack the better wood and sharp receiver lines of an original, so a ring sorta distracts from some of those demerits (I'm talking carbines now, as some 90% of the pre 1930s 92s and 94s were so adorned, and you don't "expect" a rifle to have one anyway.) A trapper of the 92 or 94 variety--old or new or copy--especially looks kinda naked without a ring IMO.

Blasphemy (in reverse) some may cry, but I've even contemplated having Steve add an original type to my 92 Brownings to complete them. Should've had 'em to begin with like the 86! Jury's still out on that project, but I figure properly done it won't effect value downward a bit. Even if it does, it'd be minor, and regardless not planning on selling these either--knock on wood. Even if I had to, I figure one of my fellow levergunners would appreciate the improvement!


Lastly, my 1917 SRC 1894 Win certainly has one--I guess by definition eh?. I'm not planning on selling it either, and so no one but me cares about its originality. Yes, even by 1917, the feature likely had out lived any real usefulness. I still think it reeks ofhistory and classes the guns up.

Btw, I too like lanyards. I don't have much use for one either except maybe trout fishing in rattler country, but--with some doing--had a Bowen ring added to my Montado just the same. Looks just right now Not sure I want all my revolvers to have one (not cheap or easy on a NM/locked Ruger for one thing) but like all my SRCs, this one's a winner!

[Old Ironsights]

Heck, I had to ADD one to my 1895GS (18.5") to make it look right (plus it got rid of that bloody "safety"...)

Now, would I want a saddle ring on my Savage 99? Of course not. But if the BBL is 20" or shorter, it really should have one.

[FWiedner]

Many of my rifles have quick-release sling studs screwed into the stocks, but I hardly ever use a sling. That's not to say that I never use one, but only when the actual need might arise. I do not remove the sling studs between those occassional periods of use. They don't bother me.

I look at the saddle ring on my Mod94 Trapper the same way. It's there for a reason. It's got a utlity purpose. Just because I seldom use it or may not have used it yet doesn't quite make it a teat on a boar-hog.

[AJMD429]

This 'quick-detach saddle ring' is quiet, doesn't flop-around, and can be put on any gun (levergun or otherwise) with a scope rail, scout scope rail, or single short piece of 2-piece rail:


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=459295

I use one on my 'Night Scout':
< oops - can't find the picture of it on the gun . . . >

Used with a 'combination' sling, you can go to/from regular sling-carry to single-point ("tactical" ) carry mode quickly. Or, more in tradition with the original use of the 'saddle-ring', just use it with a single-point sling like this.


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=213539

[DPris]

Sling studs are a totally different ballgame
I've got 'em on Marlins, they stay there.
They don't flop around, they don't get in the way, and they can't possibly remove bluing. They're also notoriously silent.
If I ever need to stick a sling on one, it's a conventional two-point sling. I'll just never use a single-point dangler, or any other method of carry that the ring's there for.
Denis

[jeepnik]

Well, another southpaw here, and I don't ride horses often. But, I like saddle rings. Beyond the cool appearance, They make a nice place to hook a lanyard when crossing streams, or climbing a steep incline. Even with a good sling, properly adjusted, some times rifles slip during these activities. But as others have mentioned, I like lanyard rings on handguns too. I've had several instances where a lanyard prevented the loss of a handgun.

I think of them like insurance. You pay for it, hoping you will never have to collect. But if the time to collect comes, it's a lot better to have it than not.

[Malamute]

I've seen several references to horses, but what's the connection?

[DPris]

People used to hang carbines around their horses' heads from that saddle ring on the way to church on Sundays.
Denis

[Ysabel Kid]

I like them. Adds a touch of class and nostaglia to any good levergun!

[Hagler]

Malamute,

The reference to horses is because the "saddle ring" is really a "sling ring", and oldtime horse soldiers wore a carbine sling, like a sash, that kept the carbine with the soldier at all times:

http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/us_1885 ... _sling.htm





The muzzle of the carbine was stored in a carbine socket, or some sort of boot, like these:

http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/i ... emId=56208



The ring, sling, and socket were used to keep the soldier & his weapon together, at all appropriate times. Afterall, a weaponless soldier may not be as effective as his armed opponent.

Shawn

[Charles]

A sash goes around the waist. He Cavalryman wore the sling over the shoulder and diagonally across the body. In that manner he could remove the carbine from the boot/socket and fire it without detaching it from the sling. If the horse jumped or moved the carbine would not be lost. However in practice, he dismounted to fire. Every 4 man held the reins of four horses while the other three fired on the ground. Pistols and sabers were used on horse back. The Colt revolver made the saber obsolete. The sabers principal use was to chase down enemy infantry that were running away and hack at their heads and shoulders. Again, in practice, the saber was often used to stab the enemy with the point. The last sabers adopted by the British and Americans had straight blades and we designed to stab rather than hack. Hack or stab, the results were the same, a dead or badly wounded enemy soldier on the ground and out of the fight.

[1894]

I don't get it. If ya dont like it take it off and chuck it in the river. if you do alot of huntin with that gun just get one of these and get the load off your arms.http://www.castbullet.com/srsling.htm

Some times and places the one in that link works great for what it is designed to do. I've never had a reason to not like it over the past several years . Rest of the time my lil carbine ( had it since the early 70's ) caries along with me quietly , I've never had any rattlin' . Often wished my other marlins had a sling ring but they don't .
And saddles ?? nope , my first name may mean lover of horses , but after a few tries we ( horses and I ) have reached an understanding . We get along just fine when we both have our own feet on the ground at the same time

[Hagler]

A sash goes around the waist. He Cavalryman wore the sling over the shoulder and diagonally across the body.

Charles,

While that is definitionally true, I was attempting to state exactly what you said. Miss America may be wearing something else, but many people, including the company that manufactures them, call her "banner" a sash:

http://www.sashdesigner.com/miss-americ ... s-america/



Therefore, the carbine sling is worn, as you say, diagonally, across the torso:





Shawn

[Malamute]

Shawn is correct, the ring was intended for cavalry use with a sling across the shoulder.



Which was my point, in all the years I've read and looked at old pictures about guns and western history, I haven't ever seen any account of civilian use of the sling ring, which later came to be called a saddle ring. I have no issue with those that like the cavalry sling idea, I just prefer regular rifle slings. I take the sling (saddle) rings off, I don't like the clinking and scratching of the receiver. No hate, just no use for them. It was a holdover from Winchester wanting to interest the military in their lever guns, which never really happened. They never really had any civilian use, notwithstanding the old wives tale about people hanging the gun over the saddle horn with a loop of leather. That habit hasn't ever turned up in any historical account or picture that I'm aware of.

[Old Savage]

That is it - I am getting a bolt cutter and cutting mine off!

[J Miller]

That is it - I am getting a bolt cutter and cutting mine off!

Well, if you just got to, send it to me if you get it off undamaged. I've always wanted an extra one.

Joe

[Malamute]

That is it - I am getting a bolt cutter and cutting mine off!

Just liking them is enough reason to have one, they just don't serve any real purpose unless you carry cavalry style.

I must confess to liking one useless thing on older Winchesters. They quit having the magazine end cap threaded into the end of the tube with the 66s or 73s I believe, but still had a screwdriver slot in the cap thru the 20's anyway. I've seen scads of them damaged from people trying to unscrew something that doesnt unscrew, and obviously has a cross screw thru it, but I like how they look.

[olyinaz]

"Hate"? I don't know that I've seen any "hatin'" goin on around here re. nose rings stuck to rifles, but I certainly have seen some ambivalence and you can lump me in that group. I don't cut the nose rings off my rifles but when I look at em hanging there I find em as useless as the nose rings hanging off of modern young girl's faces. At least on a bull it serves a purpose! I suspect modern young girls don't like it when you use theirs the same way...but that's just a suspicion. I have confirmed, however, that while my rifle doesn't care if I pull it around by it's ring I am the one who looks silly doing so.

Time once was where a man wouldn't be caught dead wearing a woman's ring but I bet if most of you look at your hand you'll see one there. Times change! Doesn't mean you're a wuss because you let a woman hang a ring on ya anymore than it means someone is wrong if they see a nose ring on their rifle and wonder, "What the heck??"

And so it festers...

Oly

[AJMD429]

I suspect modern young girls don't like it when you use theirs the same way...but that's just a suspicion. I have confirmed, however, that while my rifle doesn't care if I pull it around by it's ring I am the one who looks silly doing so.

One more to add to those lists of "Reasons I like my Gun better than my Girlfriend..."

[Old Savage]

Joe no way to get it off undamaged. Bolt cutters aren't kind.

[J Miller]

Joe no way to get it off undamaged. Bolt cutters aren't kind.

Fred,

Disassemble rifle. Use a punch to straighten the peened ends of the staple. Then use a brass rod to pull the staple out of the receiver.
Figure out how to plug holes, then reassemble.

Simple. Even I can do it and I'm 2000± miles away.

Joe

[Old Ironsights]

Shawn is correct, the ring was intended for cavalry use with a sling across the shoulder.

Which was my point, in all the years I've read and looked at old pictures about guns and western history, I haven't ever seen any account of civilian use of the sling ring, which later came to be called a saddle ring. I have no issue with those that like the cavalry sling idea, I just prefer regular rifle slings. I take the sling (saddle) rings off, I don't like the clinking and scratching of the receiver. No hate, just no use for them. It was a holdover from Winchester wanting to interest the military in their lever guns, which never really happened. They never really had any civilian use, notwithstanding the old wives tale about people hanging the gun over the saddle horn with a loop of leather. That habit hasn't ever turned up in any historical account or picture that I'm aware of.

Historical Schmestorical. I LIKE carrying mine that way. It is quick, handy, won't slip off your shoulder and keeps the muzzle pointed down. Plus it's cheaper than a 3-point "tacticool" sling.

[J Miller]

Although I like the saddle / sling rings I too have never seen one in use by a civilian weather or not he was on foot or horse back.

From the beginning of my lever gun shooting back in the mid 1960s when I got my 1894 SRC and had to replace the missing ring that some one had removed and plugged the hole with a home made screw, I've wondered just how they were used. Never did find out and now I've learned they apparently had no use.

I still like 'em though.

Joe

[kimwcook]

My thought is that if it is on the carbine it'll stay there. I've dumped a canoe before and lost a couple of things. That ring is a natural place to latch it down to the canoe so I don't lose it. My brother and I dumped a small dinghy in southwestern Alaska trying to get off the beach and back to the boat. Luckily, I had my '94 w/ saddle ring tied down or I'd of been searching in some awfully cold water looking for it.