Heavy (really heavy) bullets in .32-20...?

[AJMD429]

Anyone here know a source for load data for 168 to 220 grain .308 bullets. . .

. . . in a .32-20 or .30 Carbine or .327 Fed Mag cartridge...?

I'm thinking about what else I could do with a .35 cal suppressor designed for cartridges "up to and including .357 Maximum (subsonic only)", other than on a 9mm Calico pistol. I haven't taken the plunge yet, but it seems like a versatile item (disassembles, so you can use cast bullet loads, but also is tough enough to be rated for .223 Rem as long as it is at least 16" barrel).

I know I could just get a .300 Whisper barrel or some other for my Encore, but I don't need the super-sonic capability of the Whisper round, and would expect a .32-20 or similar sized case would be adequate to propel a 200 grain bullet say 700-900 fps, given what it can do with 100 grain ones.

What got me thinking about this possibility was the (link) .35 Winchester Self-Loading round, for the Winchester 1905, which supposedly used a 180 grain load at about 1,400 fps. The case has a capacity of about 22.7 grains of water, vs. the .32-20's 21.9 grains. I'd think a subsonic load would be fairly easy therefore for the .32-20, using a 180 grain or larger bullet.

Stepping up a bit, the (link) .338 Spectre uses a 29.2 gr-volume case to propel a 250 grain bullet at 1100 fps, but I really don't need that kind of power.

I'd thought about using a .357 Maximum, but again, that is really over-powered for the project.

Obviously, the round would only feed through a breakopen like the Encore, and would require some degree of free-bore to prevent the Whisper-like bullet profile from being shoved into the case by rifling contact.

Just looking for cartridges using .308 to .338 bullets, with case volumes from 21 grains to 30 grains, gives (link only works if you're a subscriber) some interesting possibilities for such a project, in addition to the obvious .357 Maximum or .38 Special Magnum Contender wildcat.

Suppressor Candidates.JPG

[Hobie]

For really heavy bullets a .30 is better than a .31. JD Jones does a whisper on the .30 Luger. Might this be what you're looking for?

[AJMD429]

For really heavy bullets a .30 is better than a .31. JD Jones does a whisper on the .30 Luger. Might this be what you're looking for?

Yep. Something like that, anyway. I think Eabco does a ".30-20 Match" barrel for the Encore, that uses .32-20 cases and is reamed for good fit using .308 bullets, and I guess some of the 'modern' .32-20 guns have .308 barrels anyway.

If it weren't for the long-bullet-hitting-the-lands issue, I could use my 1894-cs .32-20 but that could be a problem. Of course my grandfather's vintage 1889 that I now own probably has some worn-down rifling... (...just kidding...!)

[Ben_Rumson]

???

[earlmck]

32-20 case capacity might do the job you are wanting but the normal twist may not stabilize your desired bullet. I know my 32-20 doesn't quite stabilize the 150 grain round-nosed cast bullet I wanted to shoot in it. Got some sideways bullets at 25 yards, though the ones that stayed point first wanted to group together reasonably well. A custom barrel with a 10" twist would fix this, I'd think.

[AJMD429]

32-20 case capacity might do the job you are wanting but the normal twist may not stabilize your desired bullet.

True, if I used my Marlin which I think has a 1:20 twist, but if I get a 1:8 twist .308 barrel chambered for the round, the formula from "The Modern Schuetzen Rifle" by Charlie Dell (which is a derivation of the Greenhill formula) using a velocity of 961 fps would give me:

Optimum/Maximum length: L=(3.5*SqRt(v)*(cal)^2)/twist, or

L=(3.5*SqRt(961)*.308*.308)/8 = 1.28", and several 168 gr BTHP and 210 gr RNSP bullets fall within this length.

I just have to see if I can safely use a powder in an Encore .32-20 or .30-20 barrel to get those velocities. I guess I can always use a different case, but it would be fun to do it with a century-old round like the .32-20.

[BenT]

There was a schuetzen match at the range and one gentleman was showing me his rifle shooting 32-20 with 180 gr bullets. His barrel was .308. I would think there would be loads listed with the Schuetzen crowd.

[Thunder50]

Used to shoot the RCBS 165 sil slug in my 32-20 MOA pistol with good results. There were those of us in IHMSA that subscribed to the theory of small cases/heavy bullets. Of course, this was about the time IIRC that T/C discontinued the 32-20 and 30 carbine (another favorite) barrels.

As with the 300 whisper/300 blackout, you will need a 1-8" twist for the really heavies (group buy on castboolits is 247gr), but could probaby do with a 1-10 for up to maybe 220gr or so.

[Rusty]

I've been wondering about a plain vanilla .30-30 with a 220 grain bullet?

[AJMD429]

I've been wondering about a plain vanilla .30-30 with a 220 grain bullet?

The limiting factor is the type of suppressor - if you're using cast-lead bullets one with removable baffles is essential for thorough cleaning, and for a removable-baffle suppressor, the size has to be a bit more 'generous' than a welded one. So, to have a practical size, cleanable, suppressor, restricts you to subsonic-only rounds of somewhat limited power.

For instance, the 'Mystic' suppressor can handle .357 rounds such as 9mm and .38 Special, and light/moderate .357 Magnum and .357 Maximum loads, and really not recommended for any .35 Remington load. When you use an under-bore round like .223, it can handle the .223 Remington easily (this is all per the manufacturer), and I believe also the .338 Whisper and .300 Whisper - but ONLY for subsonic loadings.

When you are looking at a suppressor that is hard to replace, and with the tax-stamp, could set you back $1,000, you sure don't want to burst a seal with an over-powered round, so to help make it more idiot-proof (always a good thing when I am involved... ) I thought "why not use either a sub-caliber round that wouldn't hurt if someone fired a full-power one (like the .32-20), or a cartridge that may be 35 caliber, but doesn't have any loads that would be 'excessive' and risk damaging the suppressor (like a .38 Special)...?".

At this point, I don't know if I'm even going to buy said suppressor, but I just like to think about all the "what if's" so I could get the maximum use out of it.

[Remington40x]

Go over to the American Single Shot Rifle Association's forum page (www.assra.com is the web site) and post your question in the Reloading Forum. A number of guys on that site shoot heavy bullet .32-20 loads in Schuetzen and benchrest matches and they'll have lots of data, at least for plain based cast bullet loads.

[Steelbanger]

Trying to remember here. I would think that slow, heavy bullets would need a faster twist than standard in the 32-20. And trusting my memory it seems that something like 20 or 22 was the twist used. I can remember reading J.D. Jones' article in Handloader where he used very fast twist barrels to stabilize those slow, heavy 30 cal bullets.