OT - 1917 Smith or Colt Questions

[rjohns94]

Can modern .45ACP +P, or +P+ ammo be used in the 1917 Govt revolvers? Any experience out there? (I'm sure there is)

Do they lock up tight when the hammer is back or should they be tight with hammer down? Any source out there for original style holsters?

[pdentrem]

My buddy has the Second Model .44 Hand Ejector in 455 Webley and he could shot 45 ACP using moonclips. GI loads not heavy stuff.

from wiki
Smith & Wesson M1917 revolver

Model .44 Hand Ejector?The Smith & Wesson Model 1917 was essentially an adaptation of that company's Second Model .44 Hand Ejector, chambered instead for .45 ACP, employing a shortened cylinder allowing for use of half-moon clips, and a lanyard ring on the butt of the frame. Smith & Wesson had recently (c. 1915-16) produced the Hand Ejector, which uses their heavy .44 caliber frame, for the British Army in .455 Webley caliber due to shortages in British production facilities of standard-issue Webley Mk VI top-break revolvers

[Pete44ru]

S&W's DA cylinders should lock tight with the hammer back/cocked & the trigger untouched.

Colt's DA cylinders should lock tight with the hammer down/fired & the trigger held back in the fired position.

.

[woods-walker]

I thought standard .45 acp rounds were the norm for the 1917 considering the era of mfg.. That's all I use in my 1911's and never feel under gunned. The standard .45 acp load is the equivalent of the "Skeeter Skelton" .44 Special load.

[AJMD429]

S&W's DA cylinders should lock tight with the hammer back/cocked & the trigger untouched.
Colt's DA cylinders should lock tight with the hammer down/fired & the trigger held back in the fired position.

I never knew about that difference. Why is it that way...?

It seems like the Colt would be 'better' if it were locked up solid when ready-to-fire, like the S&W; you want that cylinder fixed solidly in place between trigger-pull and hammer-fall, don't you, not just 'after'...?

[Malamute]

Doc, it has to do with the direction the cylinder turns, Colts turn the cylinder "into" the frame on cocking, Smiths turn them "out" of the frame on cocking. It's more theoretical than practical advantage. Colts have no front cylinder lock point, Smiths do (the triple lock smiths had a lock at the yoke also). Years ago, when hitting all the good old gun shops in Phoenix, there were tons of the 1917's (and early Hand Ejectors and New Services) of both make. I saw far more Colts way out of time than Smiths, and Colts are much harder to gunsmith back into spec. The later Colt DA's I've seen seem to reafirm that impression. One very good Smith gunsmith I know said he simply won't work on Colts, as they are hard to get parts for, and much harder to work on, and he said he didnt know anyone in the business at that time that was fluent in Colts or would work on them. I'm sure there are some decent Colt gunsmiths, but I've not heard of any in years. Smiths are pretty easy to work on in general. I do most of my own odds and ends on Smiths.

Depending on the particular gun, many Smiths run tight upon pulling the trigger, tighter than when cocked. Just one of the minor fitting differences in individual guns. Some that are slightly out of time will cam in when the trigger is pulled. Not how it should be, but it does bring it up into full alignment if it's slightly out.

[Ben_Rumson]

Stick to ball ammo or ammo of the same power as ball in the 1917s is the advice I've always heard...
Doc... Colts & Smiths lock up??? Same as why there's chocolate and vanilla I guess.. They both shoot great... I like the lock up on the Colts myself.. I like that cylinder locked at firing...My Colt Officers Model Match 38 Spl. was the top choice for years in Bulls Eye pistol competition...The Python uses the same lock up too.. Automatics ultimately winning out in that game...mostly 45s due to the bigger bullet hole advantage..

[jeepnik]

Well, it kinda depends. On original 1917's both Colt and Smith, and on Smith 1917's of the 1937 Brazilian contract, stick with pressures for GI ball ammo. Most of today's JHP's are loaded a bit hotter, but not enough to matter. But, never uses +p or +p+ ammo in the older guns. However, Smith released some newly made (from their Classics line) 1917's. The have modern metalurgy and should be safe with higher pressure rounds.

Then there are the between war revolvers made by Smith. There are a couple of variations (at least). And, there's also the 1950 Target model. While these all have better metalurgy that and heat treating than the originals, I'd still stay away from +p stuff. If for no other reason than that you really have no idea how it has been treated in it's life. Besides, these are all pretty much sought after by collectors, so why take a chance on damaging one.

[Pisgah]

CAN you use +P in them? Sure. SHOULD you? I don't. The newest of these guns is about 70 years old. Sure, they were well-built, but no one ever intended them to be used with a steady diet of hot loads. If I were dead set on having a .45 wheelgun for regular use of .45 +P, I believe I'd opt for a new one. Pricey, but the 1917 "Classic" sure is purty.

[jeepnik]

CAN you use +P in them? Sure. SHOULD you? I don't. The newest of these guns is about 70 years old. Sure, they were well-built, but no one ever intended them to be used with a steady diet of hot loads. If I were dead set on having a .45 wheelgun for regular use of .45 +P, I believe I'd opt for a new one. Pricey, but the 1917 "Classic" sure is purty.

I handled one of the "Classics" at a shop. I can't really explain it, but it just feels different than an original. Or maybe it's just that the originals have developed a soul the new ones haven't yet. Pretty, yea, but the blueing isn't quite up to what pre-war revolvers had. It's probably a different process, and I doubt that the new ones get the same amount of polishing, not to mention from as skilled a worker, as the originals had.

[damienph]

Any source out there for original style holsters?

El Paso Saddelry Co. makes a beautiful repro holster for the 1917.

I've seen them advertised in Gun List and Shotgun News also; don't remember the name of the company but their ads were illustrated with cartoon drawings of soldiers, had alot of surplus and repro stuff for sale.

[adirondakjack]

My dad had a 1917 Smith that he made a cylinder for, and ran .410s cut down to clyinder length, retaining the full charge and either a slug or shot, simply by removing one of the two cushion wads and using a roll crimp on the shortened cases. He shot it a LOT with zero issues. .410 slug loads are pretty spicy, if that tells ya anything.

[rjohns94]

Ok, so I am going to pick on of these up, I will shoot non +P ammo. I saw the texas saddlerly and some original holtsers. What type of belt were these worn on? leather? Also, how were spare clipped ammo carried? were there pouches? something on the belt? Were the lanyards leather? I need data any help would be great

[damienph]

I am pretty sure that the 1917 leather Army repros have the hooks on the back so that you can hang them on a traditional military web belt. They may also have a loop on the back so that you can wear ir on a leather belt, I don't know...

The ammo pouches that I have seen were canvas with three pockets; so that you could carry three pairs of 1/2 moon clips. I believe that they used fabric lanyards back then.

By the way, I REALLY like my '37 Brazilian Contract 1917 S&W. I shoot mostly .45 Auto Rims through it.

[2ndovc]

Ok, so I am going to pick on of these up, I will shoot non +P ammo. I saw the texas saddlerly and some original holtsers. What type of belt were these worn on? leather? Also, how were spare clipped ammo carried? were there pouches? something on the belt? Were the lanyards leather? I need data any help would be great

Mike,

I used to have a couple spare WWI ammo pouches. I will look. I've sold off a lot of my WWI stuff.
I still have my Second Model Hand Ejectors though, one in .455 and one 45 ACP.

You can hang them from a standard canvas Mills belt. I have an El paso Patton holster for mine
along with an original US Army issue.

As the others have said I wouldn't shoot +p through mine more than a couple times.
I shoot .45AR in mine more than ACP. though i always have a full moon clip loaded with
a good JHP.

I've had about a half a dozen 1917s. Every one has been a good shooter.

jb

[rjohns94]

Looks like I located the canvas half moon clip pouches, an original holster as well as repros, the lanyard, and the belt. Think I'm going with the butt to rear, strong side holster. Will pick up some 45 auto rim ammo tomorrow along with the clips and take it for a shoot on the way back. This one is going to be a blast. I love the feel of the grip. Was redone by SA but its date is from 1918. Kewlness. Hope it shoots well.

[jeepnik]

Do yourself a big favor and get a demooning tool, and a loading tool. I have this demooner
http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/ ... ooner_Tool

Well, I was gong to find a link to the loading tool I use, but all I could find was one on sale on Guns America. So I guess it isn't made anymore. But, get a good loading tool. Mine let you set the rounds upside down in the loader, place the clip on the center post and then using "arms" pop them in. With practice, I can load all six at once. Anyway, seems there are several out there, but I'm not sure any allow loading all six at once.

Found it, shoulda check my favorites links.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2531 ... t/REMOONER

[rjohns94]

Thanks Jeepnik, I will get them. Just back from my peddler. Picked up lots of clips for the 45acp, and found 6 boxes of 45 auto Rim on his shelf, under the dust. Got them too. Holster, belt, clip pouch and lanyard all ordered too. I got some .45acp shot shells too.

Stopped at the range and had a blast, literally. A box of 45acp and some auto rims down range, let me figure out the point of aim and the fixed sights. perforated some cans with the shot shells too. I'm thinking I will have some fun with this one. I really like the grips and how it feels.

[2ndovc]

Mike,

Don't shoot the shot shells in your revolver. The crimp is long ( actually an extended case instead of a shot capsule) and can open into the barrel and jamb the
Cyl. PITA to fix and will leave you w/o a working revolver on the trail.

I think is says on the box if they're CCI not to use in revolvers.

jb

[jeepnik]

Mike,

Don't shoot the shot shells in your revolver. The crimp is long ( actually an extended case instead of a shot capsule) and can open into the barrel and jamb the
Cyl. PITA to fix and will leave you w/o a working revolver on the trail.

I think is says on the box if they're CCI not to use in revolvers.

jb

I load my own. I've got a crimper, no idea where I got it, I think it was in a box of stuff I received from a friend, that works just fine. But, if you check the OAL on the various brands, you'll probably find one that will work.