Darned near got took in at yesterday's show

[Noah Zark]

At the PGCA show in Tarentum, PA yesterday I spotted a 16" trapper-style Winchester 94 AE in 38-55, the barrel marked "Wrangler II." The idea of a 16" 38-55 immediately appealed to me. The receiver was a plain AE, no safety anywhere. It wore a regular loop lever. The furniture was that blond-finished soft "mystery wood" or "wood product" that Winchester put on these toward the end. There were some hefty dents on the sides of the receiver, which looked touched up with blueing. The barrel was rollmarked "Wrangler II" and the tag said $895. Ouch.

So I asked the one guy behind the tables what's the best he can do.

"What's on the back of the tag," he asked.

"D," I said.

"You have to ask Darnell. That's one of his."

So "Darnell" winces and sighs, and winces some more as he consults his notebook, and proceeds to say that they can't find any info on it, must be really rare, the shop owner Jack said he's only ever seen one other, and finally says $850 would take it. Thinking if it is some kind of TRULY "rare" limited production model, maybe $850 is doable, then "Jack" walked up and started talking about the "Wrangler" was made in 30-30 or 32 Special, and the "Wrangler II was made in 30-30 and 38-55. If this is so rare and they've only seen another, how does "Jack" know so much? Alarm bells started sounding.

I looked the thing over from stem to stern, inside and out with an LED flashlight, and there were a few small but kind of deep dings on the sides of the receiver. Like it took a shot from a chisel, or a tool slipped. They weren't rough like it fell on concrete or stone, and the dings appeared to be blued, as if the receiver was reblued, or the dings were near-professionally touched up. More alarm bells.

I found another dealer with whom I've had a long mutual business relationship and and looked at his Blue Book. The BB sez the Wrangler II was made with an engraved receiver with "gold inlay" and a large "Rifleman" loop lever and walnut furniture. This one of "Darnell's" had none of that -- blonde furniture, no engraving or inlay, and regular loop lever. So I passed.

Back home I googled "Wrangler II" and one of the many returns stated that Midway USA has "Wrangler II" barrels in 38-55 left over from Winchester factory stock, for less than $70 each. That explains the dents on the receiver -- a standard 94AE was rebarreled by a jackleg " 'smith" and "Jack" and "Darnell" were trying to pass it off as something special for $895, whether they knew it or not.

Gotta be informed and vigilant. There are plenty of people out there who stand ready to separate fools like me from our money.

Noah

[pwl44m]

U done good passing. If I don't know anything about a particular Gun I aint paying that kinda money.When sumpthin just don't seem right I get shakey.

[Sixgun]

Noah,
Knowledge is power. (that Latin phrase helps a bit too)

It almost kinda makes you want to make an *** out of the guy in front of a lot of people. When I know an individual is deliberatly misrepresenting a gun, I tell him in a loud voice j---u---n---k! -----------Sixgun

[Dave]

The joys of the gunshow. You did well listening to your first mind instead of second guessing yourself. I guess Darnell and Jack need to work on their Mutt and Jeff routine a little more. I always tell my kids "Life is like the gunshow". They know what that means. I just wish someone had told me sooner

[RIHMFIRE]

good boy!

[Rusty]

So if you knew it was a parts gun what would it be worth as a shooter? $550?

[olyinaz]

This looks like the real McCoy here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =236794761

A very nice looking lever gun!

Oly

[Noah Zark]

169 views and 6 responses as of 0630 on 20 June.

That means at least 163 of you went to the Midway site and searched "Wrangler II" to see if the 38-55 barrels are still available.

More like 169, probably.

As for what Darnell's mixer is worth, well, take a garden variety 94 AE and add a barrel for $75 shipped and a cartridge lifter for maybe $20 and if you can rebarrel it yourself, probably $400 tops.

And I'm not saying that Jack and Darnell even know it's a mixer. They may not. Could be they got took in when buying it.

As for the real Wrangler II in the Gunbroker ad, that dealer is north of Philthadelphia and is somewhat known for being proud of his merchandise when it comes to running his price tag gun. NIB in the new Blue Book is like $500, but the BB is known for being atrociously out of date on many prices.

Noah

[Griff]

Parts gun= $400-500 TOPS, if it is really nice. $200 TOPS otherwise. Something being passed off as something it ain't = fraud... pure and simple.

Good call on checkin' before buyin'.

[Birdman]

ya can't be too carefull. I'm surprised they didn't have someone looking over your shoulder like they was real interested if you wasn't. Nothing like a little bit of interest from someone else to get some people to act too quick.

[Pete44ru]

Since I've been dealing @ funshows, and various funshops across the land, since the late-60's, I've long since learned to just turn around & walk away, as soon as some "dealer" starts to consult a notebook, BlueBook or online website before coming to a conclusion about either buying or selling.

It tells me that he knows neither his products, nor how to do business/salesmanship - nevermind getting into a question of honesty.

"Knowledge is power" +3 !

.

[Ysabel Kid]

Really glad you didn't get taken. Saddens me to think people try to do this...

[Mescalero]

YK,
Has made what was once enjoyable into a obstacle couse.

[FWiedner]

Can't say why, but I wouldn't buy a popsicle from somebody named "Darnell".

Just don't like the sound of it.

[Mescalero]

Leave a bad taste in your mouth, does it?

[smokenrust]

Seems like I got took a few times over a few items and have a hard time deciphering the real McCoy from the imposters.
As for the Wrangler, should have wrote down the serial number and maybe call Winchester to see what configuration that gun was in when sent from the factory.
Glad you had good instincts...
Sounds like that was a real backyard gunmonkey to leave that much marks on the gun from changing barrels.

Pete, " some "dealer" starts to consult a notebook, BlueBook... " What if the fellow just wants to find a price that is fair to either the seller or buyer? How does a real gun jockey buy a gun, does he figure on making a hundred dollar bill every time he turns a gun or does he figure on paying half or less than what its worth and then hold the gun till he makes blue book value or more? As they say, knowledge is a powerful tool. lol

[t.r.]

Thank you for sharing your research and wisdom.

TR

[Idiot]

Heap good story - something to learn from.

I am a gun show jerk. Often, when someone tries that with me, I get my facts straight, circle the table and wait until it's full, then go back and ask a whole lot of questions, taking up a whole lot of time, before exposing the thief in front of as many people as I can. These folks are nothing but thieves and need to be treated as such. I've had a few very angry dealers want to run me off, but none have yet made my day. Thieves, like muggers, must be met inkind, or they'll be encouraged to continue being thieves and muggers.

[Sixgun]

That means at least 163 of you went to the Midway site and searched "Wrangler II" to see if the 38-55 barrels are still available.
More like 169, probably.
As for the real Wrangler II in the Gunbroker ad, that dealer is north of Philthadelphia

Ha! Your good Rick! #1.) Hey, do I know this dealer?
#2) Make it 168---The modern junk is everywhere--why look when you have a dozen of the real deal. --------------Sixgun

[Pete44ru]

[Pete, " some "dealer" starts to consult a notebook, BlueBook... " What if the fellow just wants to find a price that is fair to either the seller or buyer? How does a real gun jockey buy a gun, does he figure on making a hundred dollar bill every time he turns a gun or does he figure on paying half or less than what its worth and then hold the gun till he makes blue book value or more? ]

The "trouble with the Blue Book of Gun Values, and other like firearms pubs, is that while they give high/low values according to the remaining % of original facory finish/condition - the fail to address retail vs. wholesale pricing, like the automotive Kelley Blue Books do.

Ergo, there's no guidance, as to what's a fair price to buy/sell with an eye to making a profit (besides buying as low as possible), nor as to how much to buy/sell privately.

What the less scrupulous "dealers" do, instead of knowing about guns (they could just as easily be buying/selling pencils), is look whatever in front of them up in a reference, then try to con an innocent private gun owner unaware of the current resale value into selling whatever for a pittance, then turning as much profit as they think their market will stand.

As far as the "high" asking prices go, if you don't ask for "it", as a seller, how do you ever expect to get "it" ?

When's the last time you ever heard of someone looking at a gun's price tag, and paying more because they thought it was too cheap ?

.