Shot some .38spl in a .357 rifle

[Otto]

Those of you who shoot .38's, for whatever reason: do you use actual .38's or light-loaded .357's?

If you use .38's, do you know what kind of velocity you are getting?

EDIT Took a handful of WinUSA 130gr fmj and ran through the Navy Arms 92 carbine. Recoil was brutal; it was like shooting a .22lr. They were pretty well hitting a POA at 50 yards,at least so far as my mediocre skills revealed. The only problem was a failure to extract well over half the time. I haven't shot this gun in awhile, but I don't remember having extraction issues with .357's.

[Griff]

As a reloader, I ain't hamstrung by what I CAN get, but have the flexibility to get what I want! Or to put it another way, what load are ya wonderin' about?

[Otto]

I don't have any particular load in mind. I am just curious whether most prefer full-length cartridges, so to speak, and what their reasoning. I have a separate generalized question regarding the velocity of .38 special, as I know .357 cartridges gain substantial velocity going from a pistol to a rifle.

[retmech]

.38 spls that do 850-900 fps out of a 6" pistol do roughly 1050-1100 fps out of a rifle. My .357 mags with the 173 gr "Keith" bullet that do 1250 fps out of my 6" pistol do 1630 fps out of my rifles. The slower magnum powders (296,2400 etc) gain more in the longer rifle barrel than the faster pistol powders like Bullseye and Unique used in .38 spl.

[JBledsoe]

.

I shoot a great deal of 38 Spec in 38 cases in a Marlin 1894 C. In fact that is all that I shoot in that gun, I have a twin 1894 C that I shoot 357 Mag only in that one. After a hundred rounds or so in the 38 Spec gun the chamber gets a carbon ring from shooting 38 Specials and can cause a dangerous pressure condition if 357 is then fired in it without first cleaning out the carbon ring. To prevent issue with 38 Spec. I just use one gun for 38 and the other for 357. Anyway, Do not mix the two. 38's are ok following 357 but do not follow 38's with 357 without cleaning between the change over

..

[Jacko]

In my Rossi 92 not one 38 special load I tried with Jacketed or commercial hardcast projectiles gave acceptable accuracy. I have just started casting my own projectiles and have in mind to work up a Cat Sneeze load in .38 Special cases using an Ideal 357 446 mould to see if it will shoot.

I also run a Boresnake through my Rifle after shooting .38 Special loads to get rid of the dreaded crud ring.

regards Jacko

[86er]

My boys are shooting 38 SPL 158gr hardcast. They are listed as 900 fps and do so out of a 3" revolver. Out of a 18" barrel rifle they do 1234 fps average. We tested them on some 80 pound pigs at 50 yards and couldn't keep them in the animal - go right through.

[Griff]

Otto,

Much of the reasoning behind using light loaded .357s is due to a particular rifle's issues feeding the shorter cases of the .38Spl. These are most generally timing issues with the mechanics of the action. There are other resolutions, but often they are seen as more complex than simply adjusting the OAL of the cartridge. For real solutions, see Marauder's Rifle Hints for various models or get Nate Kiowa Jones' video for the Rossi 1892.

IIRC, the rule of thumb is about an 12-15fps increase per inch of barrel length from a revolver to a carbine/rifle. As noted above, a slower powder will put that increase at or higher than that estimate due to the longer time the expanding gases have to act on the bullet. Much of a slow powder's potential is lost in the cylinder/barrel gap and the short time the bullet remains in the barrel.

[El Chivo]

another issue with 38's might be accuracy - the bullet will have to travel a bit before biting into the rifling. Many shooters try to make their OAL such that it is touching the rifling for best accuracy, and your 38's will have to jump the gap first.

[Otto]

Took a handful of WinUSA 130gr fmj and ran through the Navy Arms 92 carbine. Recoil was brutal; it was like shooting a .22lr. They were pretty well hitting a POA at 50 yards, at least so far as my mediocre skills revealed. The only problem was a failure to extract well over half the time. I haven't shot this gun in awhile, but I don't remember having extraction issues with .357's.

[olyinaz]

Failure to feed? Sure, but failure to extract?? Dunno what's up with that.

For what it's worth I've shot those Win .38 spcl FMJ rounds out of my Win 94 and Rossi 92 and they function just fine.

Regards,
Oly

[Les Staley]

After a steady diet of 38 specials, you should CLEAN the chamber before shooting the longer 357 mag as they will stick on the crud ring the 38s leave behind.. Les

[Otto]

Failure to feed? Sure, but failure to extract?? Dunno what's up with that.

For what it's worth I've shot those Win .38 spcl FMJ rounds out of my Win 94 and Rossi 92 and they function just fine.

Regards,
Oly

Fed fine, at least when there was no spent case in the way. Also, before firing I had cycled a half-dozen or so rounds through and they extracted fine.

[olyinaz]

Also, before firing I had cycled a half-dozen or so rounds through and they extracted fine.

I hope you're being dang careful doing that. We had one of our own right here not so long ago send a .44 slug into his house and through several walls doing just that same thing.

Just sayin'...

Oly

[RichBMW]

Shoot .38 specials with my 1894c all the time. Much cheaper and lighter recoil, so a perfect range round. I clean the rifle every time, so switching to .357 has never been an issue. Both rounds work perfectly.

[Otto]

Also, before firing I had cycled a half-dozen or so rounds through and they extracted fine.

I hope you're being dang careful doing that. We had one of our own right here not so long ago send a .44 slug into his house and through several walls doing just that same thing.

Just sayin'...

Oly

Why was he doing that in the house?

[jlchucker]

I don't know what the groups actually would measure, but my 38 special load that I've been using in a Rossi Trapper feed just fine and are consistently accurate for plinking at 50 yd. I use a Lee 125 gr cast bullet (actual cast weight is 131 gr), lubed with Javalina and propelled by Titegroup. My bullets are not particularly hard, but I don't have leading problems. One problem with these and other 38 spl loads that I had initially, though, had to do with jamming. After much consultation with my own gunsmith and a couple of emails from Nate Kiowa Jones, I tried seating my bullets out a bit. Problem solved. Apparently, some Rossi 92's are just plain finicky about reliably feeding 38 specials, while others feed them just fine. 38's out of a levergun are fun to shoot. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt game with my 38 spl load, either, if I had to--but my deer hunting preferences lean more to 30-30, 35 Remington, and 45-70 leverguns.

[Idahoser]

...the chamber gets a carbon ring from shooting 38 Specials and can cause a dangerous pressure condition if 357 is then fired in it without first cleaning out the carbon ring...

I've asked about this a few times, the only time I've ever heard anybody claim such a thing was in reference to using .45 Colt in a .454 Casull. The pressure there is apparently already pretty significant, and a crud ring can put it over the line into dangerous... but I've never heard anybody else say that about other cartridges, specifically I was asking about .44 and .38/.357.

Troublesome, yes. Chambering the longer cartridge and extracting it with the crud ring there is more difficult and can even be impossible, I suppose. But dangerous? You're the only one ever said that that I could find.

Do you actually know, or is this a guess? No offense, I just want to know the story.

[JB]

another issue with 38's might be accuracy - the bullet will have to travel a bit before biting into the rifling. Many shooters try to make their OAL such that it is touching the rifling for best accuracy, and your 38's will have to jump the gap first.

I agree. I normally used 38's in 38 cylinders and 357's in 357 cylinders when I was after the best accuracy. I also like my rifle bullets just kissing the rifling whenever possible. Of course with some bullet weights and some rifle designs that just isn't possible.

[firefuzz]

...the chamber gets a carbon ring from shooting 38 Specials and can cause a dangerous pressure condition if 357 is then fired in it without first cleaning out the carbon ring...

I've asked about this a few times, the only time I've ever heard anybody claim such a thing was in reference to using .45 Colt in a .454 Casull. The pressure there is apparently already pretty significant, and a crud ring can put it over the line into dangerous... but I've never heard anybody else say that about other cartridges, specifically I was asking about .44 and .38/.357.

Troublesome, yes. Chambering the longer cartridge and extracting it with the crud ring there is more difficult and can even be impossible, I suppose. But dangerous? You're the only one ever said that that I could find.

Do you actually know, or is this a guess? No offense, I just want to know the story.

I don't know how "dangerous" it can be, I guess that depends on ones definition of dangerous....but I do know it can damage the chamber of the gun. When the "longer" cartridge discharges the brass can act as a press, pressing the carbon "crud ring" into the sides of the chamber. I've seen revolvers with rings in the cylinders that was caused in this manner.

Rob

[COSteve]

Do you clean your weapons? This 'issue' with shooting 38spl cases in a 35mag chambered weapon is just nonsense. If you clean your weapon it is a non-issue. If you don't clean your weapon, then you deserve whatever malady befalls you. Its that simple. Do your job or pay the piper.

[Griff]

One of the most accurate pistols I own is a S&W Mdl 65, chambered in .357Mag. It's never had a magnum round thru it, only ever shot with .38Spls and +Ps. I've shot several perfect scores in both PPC and ASC type qualifying courses with it... (read several PER YEAR). Accuracy is a wildly variable concept.

While pressure build up from a bit of crud in the chamber might be a problem in a handgun like the S&W mdl 19 or its derivatives... with it's fairly small cylinder size. But, from the Rossi carbine? Yep, you'll notice the chambering issues LONG before you raise the pressure levels to what the gun's capable of handling.

As to the failure to extract: Could it just be a bit of extra crud getting under the extractor and not letting it down enough to catch the rim? Do those specific rims have proper dimensions? There might be a couple of other issues that would cause poor extraction with some rounds but not others; I think those would be the most common.

[Meeteetse]

I have three .357 lever guns, a Marlin 1894, a Rossi 92 and a Browning 92. The Marlin cycles almost everything in either .38 or .357 except wadcutters of course and the Rossi is about 95% good with both, but 100% with .357's. The Browning is a .357 gun only. There is something in the lifting mech that just doesn't like any .38's of any bullet style or cartridge length. None of these guns have been worked on, so they might all be capable of shooting both a 100% of the time with a little work by someone who knows what he is doing.

Most of the time I just shoot .357's, light or heavy, and then I know they will work. I also have a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in .44 mag and it likes .44 specials just fine.

[JBledsoe]

.

Some of you guys are missing the point. The carbon ring is not dangerous as long as one continues to shoot the 38 spec. It's the shooting of the 357 after shooting a large number of 38 spec. and not cleaning the chamber between the 38 and 357.
Now if the carbon is such that the 357 case cannot open and release the bullet what does that do to pressure? Some of you are saying that's OK?

Here are a couple of 357 cases that were fired in a dirty chamber. Look closely at the case mouth and tell me that is not a dangerous condition.

[Slick]

I mostly shoot .38sp through my .357mag leverguns. The primary reason is that .357mag brass is costly when compared to .38sp. In fact, I’ve been given good quantities of .38sp brass for FREE a few times.

I will shoot .38 and .357 on the same shooting trip and never had any issue with “carbon” rings giving trouble with .357’s. While I believe there’s a potential for there to be a problem, I doubt that I’d ever fire enough (in one shooting session) for a problem to arise.

Now I say that from the perspective that I generally shoot several different guns on any shooting trip so most of the time, any gun will seldom see more than 2 or 3 hundred rounds each. Also, I thoroughly clean my guns after every time out – so I’ve never had any sort of issue shooting .357mag after .38sp.