POLITICS - Shootin in MO

[Mike Hunter]

Normally I’m the first one to cringe when I hear about public shootings or shootings of innocents. But with this shooting in Mo, the Mayor, city council members, has gotten me very curious.

Listening to the shooter’s family members on the radio, talk about the City giving him a “ticket a day’ for something he couldn’t control, when he went to meeting to voice his concerns, was barred from attending meetings.

I’m just wondering if the City pushed too hard and this guy felt that he had no other recourse, or he was just nuts, not sure we’re getting the whole story here

[edsguns]

Normally I’m the first one to cringe when I hear about public shootings or shootings of innocents. But with this shooting in Mo, the Mayor, city council members, has gotten me very curious.

Listening to the shooter’s family members on the radio, talk about the City giving him a “ticket a day’ for something he couldn’t control, when he went to meeting to voice his concerns, was barred from attending meetings.

I’m just wondering if the City pushed too hard and this guy felt that he had no other recourse, or he was just nuts, not sure we’re getting the whole story here

Several months ago, in my town in Tn., a distraught citizen shwed up at a city council meeting to voice concerns about a zoning problem he was having. Well, in the middle of the city council meeting as he was voicing his concerns and finding no help available, he shot himself in the head right there in the middle of the meeting and died right there. I guess some people cannot cope with government and govenmental decisions.

[FWiedner]

In the natural course of human events, there are petty officials who delight in tyrannizing ordinary people.

They occasionally get what they've asked for.

[Ram Hammer]

I grew up in a neighboring community to where the shootings took place. St. Louis County is made up of dozens of small cities cheek to jowl, each with its own government. In this part of St. Louis County the local governments bully small business and the occasional land owner to comply with especially strict "aesthetic standards". This man may have been a victim of that kind of burro-cracy. I am aware of the City of Webster Groves (very near Kirkwood) trying to run off any light industry type business to replace them with Starbucks stores and boutique shops. I still have family living in Kirkwood.

[JReed]

My folks live in Wildwood. Western St Louis County is quickly turn into what Orange County CA. was 10 years ago. Very YUPPI and soccer mom.

[jazman]

I don't care how many parking tickets this idiot got, that doesn't warrant going in and blowing 5 people away, starting with LEO officers. There is no rest of the story. It's fools like this that get everyone riled up about guns, shooters like this are the biggest threat to gun ownership.

[FWiedner]

Uncontrolled government and spineless citizens are the biggest threat to gun ownership.

[Hobie]

Mike,

This rapidly digressed and so was renamed.

I have to note that if anyone ever resisted the tryannical seizure of personal arms they would be depicted just as this man is being depicted, true or not. I saw his momma on TV, seemed pretty much resigned to the situation. THAT more than anything makes me wonder as to what exactly what was going on. I have difficulty trusting anything in the news. I've dealt with too many "reporters" who couldn't even correctly copy a type-written name.

[joachim slim]

the man was an idiot. his broher said "he went to war" with the city. the city of kirkwood wasnt informed of the war. the man planned what he did. he was at home and drove down with the intent to kill. he shot one police officer outside before he went in. the man had been removed several times from city meeting for makeing an *** (he came with a picture of a donkey and started braying once) of himself and disrupting the meetings. maybe if he had tried working with the city and mayor instead of being confrontacious he might have got more results.

[Mike Hunter]

Not saying that I approve, but every story has two sides.

Most of Missourians don’t think that St Louis is part of the state.

But you push a man into a corner; you might not like what you get, and there are folks that will push. Rezoning a business to where they can’t make a living then levy a daily fine on them for non compliance… that could drive a sane man to do an insane act.

Hypothetical Situation here: City comes in and condemns your property because you are in non compliance with some new city code, so you either need to move or spend big bucks that you don’t have to fight City Hall. City then decides to use its eminent domain to acquire your property, to build a parking lot (parking lot is not needed but the contractor is tight with the mayor) And since your property is now condemned the city offers you one quarter of what your property is truly worth.

Here in MO they want to start charging folks for water they use out of personal wells.

Friend of mine built a house, spent $5k on a well, a year later the city incorporated the area, forced him to pay $8500 for city water hook up, and of course monthly bills after that. Then he had to pay $2500 to have his well filled in… by the one and only city approved contractor.

City places an easement on a guy’s property. Right in front of his business, the easement causes him to loose significant amounts of money because customers can’t get to his business easily. The City paid $1 for the easement, he can’t do anything with the property (no building, no roads etc) but he still required to pays taxes on the property.

Or the 90 year old lady that had her house (which her husband had built, and had been living in for 60 years) ED’d by the city so they could expand a parking lot.

Unfortunately there are thousands of examples like this, I just want to hear both sides of this story.

[PPpastordon]

I don't care how many parking tickets this idiot got, that doesn't warrant going in and blowing 5 people away, starting with LEO officers. There is no rest of the story. It's fools like this that get everyone riled up about guns, shooters like this are the biggest threat to gun ownership.

I pray I would never do this. But let me give you another example. We fought for over three years - THREE YEARS - to get tax bills on our home. We were not living there because I am a minister and was preaching at a church over 150 miles away. We were told again and again the county could not find our records.

We tried to use old records to show ownership and let them hold the money - they refused, saying they could not do that.

When they finally found them we were told it had been sold for unpaid taxes. We could not get an attorney who would take the case because by the time we received the word (by hiring someone to search the records so we could get it straightened out), the appeal time was past. We have never received any official word about the court's actions.

BTW; letters from us were found in the case record. However, the judge went on with the sale because, "I could not find a phone listed in their name."

I can assure you that there is a part of me that still feels like that judge deserved just what the man in MO did, or attempted to do to the mayor. Yes, it is wrong to do such a thing. Yes, it is wrong to act on such feelings. But the unfortunate thing is, if you push people "to the wall," you had best be prepared to "defend" what you have done, or at least smart enough to realize what you are doing. I wonder how that mayor feels, or will feel if he survives?

Bad situation!

Grace and Peace.

[Mike Hunter]

Again as I clearly stated earlier; I don’t condone this guy’s actions, but I do want to hear the other side of the story.

This guy didn’t go to a college campus shooting randomly because some girl dumped him or got a A- in Algebra; He had specific targets in mind, the targets were in a position of power, and if unchecked can significantly impact a persons life.

I don’t know if he got a bunch of $20 parking tickets or was being fined $5000 a day and couldn’t pay the fines because the city had revoked his business license. So yes if the city had $100,000 worth of fines against me and made it impossible for me to pay them… I might call the Mayor an butt in an open forum.

And the fact that this guy had a federal lawsuit against the city because they wouldn’t let him attend meetings makes me even more suspicious. If this guy is a resident of that city, and pays taxes then he has a right to voice his opinion in a city meeting. I don’t care if he dresses in a clown suit, and calls the Mayor an butt it’s called free speech, and as long as he’s not threatening to blow up city hall or punching folks in the nose he has a right to it. Or am I missing something here and free speech means only speech that the government agrees with?

[Caco]

Cornerd many many normally docile animals will fight-not in the know here.
Dave

[Ram Hammer]

My folks live in Wildwood. Western St Louis County is quickly turn into what Orange County CA. was 10 years ago. Very YUPPI and soccer mom.

JReed
I have family living in Wildwood too. I was there for Christmas and was astounded at the new construction driving north from I44. My cousins house has been there at least 50 years up on the ridge overlooking the Merimac. Wildwood could turn into another Webster Groves or Kirkwood. Yuppie Burro-crats telling the folks that have preceded them how to live and what to do.

[Ray]

I know nothing about the incedent in Missouri but I have had my share of persecution from local tyrants and despots. I have come too close to being "backed into a corner" in the context of this discussion for comfort.

No, there is no excuse for violent behaviour but as the gentleman from Texas commented, some tyrants get exactly what they deserve. Could examples like these be what Col. Cooper meant when he said or quoted "An armed society is a polite society."