Do Gas Checks Scrape Lead?

[El Chivo]

I realize the basic purpose of gas checks is they protect the base of the bullet from hot gases. But, one shooter told me they will remove lead from your barrel, they scrape it out in front of them.

Makes sense in a way, considering their shape, and that they leave the barrel last.

Another silhouette shooter would fire off 2-3 jacketed bullets at the end of the shooting session, he said this cleans the lead out of the barrel.

Any truth to this? I've got some loaded rounds that lead a little and plan to shoot them up. This might be an easy way to get the lead out afterwards. Fire some gas checked or jacketed rounds and make it easier with the brush.

[J Miller]

I'm not sure how well gas checks clean lead out of a barrel, however I have and do use jacketed bullets to de-lead my revolver barrels occasionally.
The more I've learned about lead bullets though the less leading I have to contend with.

Joe

[Pisgah]

I cannot prove it, but I have always suspected that much, if not most, leading is caused by gas-cutting -- gases flowing past the base of ill-fitting or too hard/too soft bullets, vaporizing small amounts of lead that are deposited on the bore surface. I believe the main action of gas checks is revealed in their name -- they check the gas that might otherwise escape past the base and cause leading.

[Ray Newman]

Re: Shooting copper bullets to remove leading.

The American Rifleman once ran a story about this. As a result of their tests, it seems all that the copper jacketed slugs did was evenly spread out the lead in the barrel without removing any.

[olyinaz]

Re: Shooting copper bullets to remove leading. The American Rifleman once ran a story about this. As a result of their tests, it seems all that the copper jacketed slugs did was evenly spread out the lead in the barrel without removing any.

That's what I've always suspected.

Oly

[Grizz]

I think it's possible that a small amount of lead from one bullet might be smeared and spread out and maybe partly removed by the next. I've seen .22s go for years without any particular effort made to remove lead. They still shoot the same as ever, it seems to me.

Also, the bullets I shoot are over groove diameter, but is the gas check? It might not fill the bore as well as the bullet does. Although they do get engraved by the lands.

I've never wire brushed the guide gun bore and it isn't filled in with lead. There's traces of it but I don't see how there's any harm to it.

Also, to the point of flame cutting bullet bases, I've always wondered about bevel base bullets, and boattails to. Do they cause flame erosion?

Grizz

[JB]

Re: Shooting copper bullets to remove leading.

The American Rifleman once ran a story about this. As a result of their tests, it seems all that the copper jacketed slugs did was evenly spread out the lead in the barrel without removing any.

Years ago I tried "shooting the lead" out of barrels with jacketed bullets, but never found it to help much.

[Griff]

"Old wive's tales" of the shooting variety. But far be it for me to "dis" some fellars long-standing belief. Especially if I continue to outshoot 'im!

[Don McDowell]

Gaschecks aren't attached that firmly to the bullet base that they'ld stay on the bullet if any serious leading was encountered.
From what I can tell shooting jacketed bullets after cast only clears the lube fouling from the bore.
If you want to know for sure if there's any lead in the barrel soak a flannel patch with puregum spirits of turpentine and run that down the bore on a jag. You'll feel it grabbing lead and it'll come out with big silver streaks if there was any.
If you run a white patch down a clean barrel and it comes out with any grey or dark smudges,, you got lead mining to do.

[pdawg.shooter]

I have had good luck removing lead, and jacketed fouling by using paper patched bullets. A SMLE I bought some time back was really bad. Plus it had reamer marks on the top of the lands. Paper patched cast bullets quickly removed all the fouling, and after a couple hundred of them the barrel look as good as my Hart barrel, inside anyway.

[mikld]

FWIW, kinda an aside, I've read (and a little experience) that a bit of Cream of Wheat under a bullet as filler will scrub the bbl. clean of lead deposits...

[JimT]

When you use a product such as the Outers Foul-Out to remove lead and copper deposits what you find is one on top of the other on top of the other ... at least at times.

Shooting lead bullets .. then jacketed leaves lead fouling under copper fouling .. again, at times. Not always. The bore can look clean .. but after you have shined it with a brass brush and polished it with a cloth patch it will reflect light nicely.

Once you begin the process of electro-chemically removing the "plating" however the true story emerges.

[PaperPatch]

I used to shoot RCBS 150 grain gas checked bullets out of my 94 at full throttle. I found that the lead became evenly distributed about the bore. You could still clearly see the rifling...the bore though had a smooth gray lead coating along its length. So...while there was obvious scraping taking place; lead was still remaining.

Accuracy was always mediocre anyway, so I moved on to other stuff.

[Gary Norsk]

Have shot lead bullets many years "50" or so. I feel the horandy check will scrape lead but don't know everything about cast like some people claim. Leading always seems to me to make groups larger, much larger. Might not notice with a 22 auto but a good accurate bolt rifle or a accurate cast bullet center fire rifle you will notice on paper. People say bullet must bump up but my bullets are sized bumped up and I still get throat leading shooting cas loads 44 rem mag. One thing about it there is always something to learn. Removing leading try Zylene and or fine steel wool on a patch. Gary

[O.S.O.K.]

Leading in the forcing cone and rear of the bore is from gas cutting. Leading towards the muzzle is from the lube running out before the bullet exits. If the leading is all the way up the bore - the likely culprit is too soft an alloy for the load.

But do keep in mind that a hard bullet that fails to obturate is what often causes the gas cutting - a softer alloy will bump up and seal the gas behind the bullet. But this is all dependent on the load = pressure being exerted on the base.

I haven't noticed that gas checks remove any lead - they do however, prevent the depositing of it.

[SJPrice]

When you use a product such as the Outers Foul-Out to remove lead and copper deposits what you find is one on top of the other on top of the other ... at least at times.

Shooting lead bullets .. then jacketed leaves lead fouling under copper fouling .. again, at times. Not always. The bore can look clean .. but after you have shined it with a brass brush and polished it with a cloth patch it will reflect light nicely.

Once you begin the process of electro-chemically removing the "plating" however the true story emerges.

And would it be safe to say that the "true story" could reveal rust and or pitting and or both?

[Old Savage]

Wow, it seems to me that hot jacketed loads have taken the lead along with them removing those gray streaks in my 45-70 and 44 Special. But what the heck if they just go away because they were smoothed out OK. I like a blend of lead and jacket metal in the bore, that way it is ready to shoot either.

[J Miller]

I have used jacketed bullets to remove barrel leading on many occasions. Mostly with .357 Magnum revolvers. It does work. When followed by a good cleaning with bronze brushes and solvent you can see the difference between barrel steel and lead streaks.

It doesn't work near as good with low pressure rounds such as the .45 Colt in hand guns or rifles. There just isn't enough pressure to get the jacketed bullet to fully expand and fill the rifling groves all the way to the bottom. So you end up with smeared lead down in the groves.

In recent years when I have barrel leading I just use the Chore Boy pad on an old brush and it all comes right out.

Joe

[BAGTIC]

IMO

1. Don't worry about them staying on the bullet. They have thousands of pounds of gas pressure behind them holding them in place.

2. The lead does not get hot enough to "vaporize".

3. If it did when it condensed it would be deposited uniformly in the barrels on the lands, grooves, and sides of the riflings. Strangely when I get leading it almost always collects in the bottom of the grooves.

4. If the lead were deposited as condensation (vaporized) or as liquid (melted) it would collect as tiny drops. Strangely mine usually collects as SMEARS indicating it was spread on.

5. If the problem was caused by lead 'vaporizing' or even melting it would not matter how hard the lead was. Soft lead actually melts at a higher temperature than some hard alloys.

Leading is caused for the same reason pencils write on paper and chalk on a blackboard. It is scraped off. The rougher the surface the more rubbing. The weaker the 'bullet the easier it rubs off.

I know, I know soft bullets don't always lead. For lead to rub off it has to have somewhere to go. Rub a piece of lead on a smooth piece of steel and see how much rubs off. Do it again with a roughened piece or even better a flat file and see how much rubs off. Try shooting undersized and oversized bullets through the same bore and see which leads more.

Also a bullets that is cocked in the bore will drag one edge of the base behind it. That thin unsupported edge will wear off.