On Topic!! tell me about the 33 WCF

[rjohns94]

I know I could look this up but why do that when I have you guys to tell me? Loads, hunting experience, performance? it will be coming out of an 1886 lightweight takedown circa 1925

[Hobie]

On the .45-70 case it is a .33 cal equal to the .35 Remington... 200 at 2200.

[cshold]

+1 for Hobie
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =205728673

Mike, a for what it’s worth.
I have an old relative that swears by the .35 Remington. (the proof is on his walls )
He has always felt and said:
“The 35 rem. is the best for PA. Deer round ever made”

[86er]

You could load with W748 and achieve 2350 fps while staying in the safe pressure range. 3031 will get you there too - both with 200 grain bullets that are made for this cal (Horndady FP or Win FNSP). In a pinch you can snip the tip off Nosler Accubonds (200 gr) and they will feed and function but they top out around 2200 fps becasue the solid base and ong bearing surface make more pressure than bullets intended for the cartridge. The Accubonds will still work prettyy good without the tip and at 2200 fps MV. Best of luck with it

[rafter-7]

A 348 will let you know when you have too much fun but the 33 you can shoot all day with 200 gr.s...33s are the dog of the 1886s but when you accept them for what they can bring to the table ... its a wonderful cartridge.. we use reloader 7 for powder

^
7

[2ndovc]

Works Good!


The stinker is finding the right bullets. Hornady discontinued their 200 FP that was
the cat's behind for the .33WCF. Hawk makes a .338 FP but I have not tried those.
i have a mold ordered for a GC flat point but haven't gotten it yet.

It is comparable to the .35 Remington but as much as I love my .35 Rem it's just not an 1886.

jb

[Mike D.]

The .33 WCF may be a "dog" to some 1886 collectors, but not to me. I own four of them, so you could say it's a favorite caliber of mine. You can achieve 2400 FPS, but you don't need to. The standard 2200 MV loads will get the job done on everything from small deer to elk and moose. Powders like IMR 4064, 4895 and 4320 will work just fine. The old standby of 42/3031 will work in some guns and not so well in others. I don't care for that powder in the .33, the others I mentioned are better, IMO.

[fordwannabe]

If you look at my previous thread about hunting in PA with a 108 year old rifle, you'll see my 1886 in 33wcf. I used 5744 and a cast boolit for mine it ssems to like a bit bigger than avarage bullet(340) in cast. Little recoil, pretty accurate and works on PA whitetails. I think I have the same mold on order as the previous poster so we'll wait and see how that is going to work out for us. As far as the hawk bullets go I bought 2 boxes and didn't have a lot of luck with them, but I didn't really give it my full attention either(I wanted the hornady's). Good luck finding the Hornady's they are around but getting scarce. If your interested in a couple of the hawk bullets to try I'll gladly send them your way, or if you would like some of the cast ones, I'll send you some of those too. I remember what it was like to get started with this caliber.
As far as the brass the way I DO IT, is I run the cases into a 38-56 die and then into a 33wcf resizing die, but before I got the 38-56 dies I just lubed the 45-70 cases really well and used a good steady pressure in the 33 dies(wrinkled a couple everytime though). Lee makes 33wcf dies custom and I got the LFC die and a zip trimmer from them. If you want more info PM me. Tom

[BigSky56]

Buffalo Arms makes the hornady 200 gr FP, Snooky Williamson pushed the 33 WCF to 2400 fps using IMR 4895 and got 15/8" group doing it. danny
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1290.html

[KWK]

I didn't know Buffalo was making the old Hornady 200 FN bullets; that's good to hear.

A 1925 model should have good steel and take a bit more pressure. The Powley Computer is usually pretty accurate in this pressure range, and it figures the 200 FN's should go 2350 at 39,000 CUP -- no news there. Perhaps also of interest is a 250 gn RN (Hornady still makes one) which at this pressure the Powley reckons will go better than 2050 fps; penetration ought to be impressive with that one. However, writing back near WW-I, Whelen thought the early loads of 200 at 2056 were adequate for all U.S. game except the big bears, so I doubt there's any pressing need to push it.

[jnyork]

This moose was taken with the 200 grain hornady at 2000 fps, one shot, one moose. No need to hotrod the great ol' round, just shoot straight!

[Larryo-1]

I guess I must enter into this discussion about this rifle/caliber. I have a .33 that is a takedown and was made in 1910. I am the second owner of this rifle which came from an old Game Warden from over at Anaconda. I played with several (lots) of different powders and charges and with the Hornady bullet, one from Rapine and one from RCBS. In going through some of my old literature, I stumbled across an article in "The Handloader" #65 from 1977 that listed H-4831 as a powder to use. I gave it a try and it really works great-IN MY RIFLE. The mv is listed as 2033 fps and it shot a 1.4" group at 100 yards. So far, since I have had it, it has tallied one elk and one deer. Since I have other toys to play with too, it doesn't get used all that much but since it only weighs 8½ pounds, it does tend to whack you a bit. Hope this bit of stuff helps.

[RKrodle]

.33 WCF / .33 Winchester Using 200 Grain Hornady Bullets Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: Handloader Issue 112
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4320 43 2,303
Remarks: variation: 37; energy (ft/lbs): 2,348; least variation
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4320 45 2,355
Remarks: variation: 72; energy (ft/lbs): 2,452; very accurate
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-3031 40 2,024
Remarks: variation: 135; energy (ft/lbs): 1,812; too much variation; mild
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-3031 43 2,327
Remarks: variation: 49; energy (ft/lbs): 2,390; accurate
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4064 45 2,216
Remarks: variation: 59; energy (ft/lbs): 2,168; good
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4064 47 2,467
Remarks: variation: 73; energy (ft/lbs): 2,688; maximum
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4895 45 2,471
Remarks: variation: 128; energy (ft/lbs): 2,710; not recommended
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4198 34 2,091
Remarks: variation: 44; energy (ft/lbs): 1,940; 5-inch groups
200 Hornady Flatnose IMR IMR-4198 35 2,091
Remarks: variation: 40; energy (ft/lbs): 1,940; 5-inch groups

[Mike D.]

Ricky, I tried that 47/4064/200 load and it was difficult to open the action on one of my very late(1935) .33s. I dropped it to 45.6 and had more pleasing results. Most of those loads listed are good for any of the smokeless receiver .33 WCF rifles. Older rifles that were rebarreled should be kept to the milder loads. I like that 45/4320 load a lot.

[RKrodle]

Ricky, I tried that 47/4064/200 load and it was difficult to open the action on one of my very late(1935) .33s. I dropped it to 45.6 and had more pleasing results. Most of those loads listed are good for any of the smokeless receiver .33 WCF rifles. Older rifles that were rebarreled should be kept to the milder loads. I like that 45/4320 load a lot.

Mike I should of wrote that I've never tried any of these loads, they are from load data. I've never had the pleasure to own or shoot the fine 33 WCF.

[Sixgun]

Well Mike,
I've killed several dozen deer, foxes, crows, mess of wild dogs, and an elk with one. Its a great caliber with great sectional density and is known to drive bullets deep without breaking apart, partly due to that magical 2200 fps velocity where everything seems to work right. My exclusive load for 30 years was 42 grains of IMR 3031 with the 200 grain Hornady. Several years back I ran out of 3031 and instead of "running out to buy more", I just substituted 44 grains of IMR 4895. Same velocity--same point of impact.

Reforming from 45-70 to .33 does require an expensive set of forming dies. If you get the gun, just send me your brass and I'll reform it for you. I did a hundred for Jason here a while back and he's happy with 'em--right Jason?? ------------Sixgun

Me, 1886 in .33, deer, and fox in 1980 or 1981


Same rifle with elk 23 years later

[rjohns94]

thanks guys. Jack, I will take you up on that. I will get some 45-70 brass out to you after the first of the year. I did pick up some ammo so I will be able to get started shooting it right off the bat once it arrives.

[Mike D.]

Just for grins I picked up some Quality Cartridge .33 WCF brass with correct headstamp, but it's expensive at 2 bucks a pop. I also have a bunch of unused Rem-UMC brass that I'll use eventually. You can use a .38-56 sizing die to start the case, as has been suggested, however a .33 WCF case forming die is best. They are an expensive outlay, too. $84 is a lot for one little die. Finding the Hornady 200 gr FP is another challenge.

[rjohns94]

Mike, what do you think of the Hawk bullets, they are readily available and midway has the others too.

[jnyork]

I formed 50 45-70 cases by lubing them up, running them up in the SEATING die first, then the sizing die. Only wrinkled one. Worked for me.

[Mike D.]

Hawk bullets are of excellent quality. He made me some .376 jacketed for my tight bored .38-56 and they are GREAT.

[Larryo-1]

For what it is worth. I only run my cases through an RCBS Trim and File die first. Very lightly lubed and file off what sticks out the top. Then I run them through my FL die and I am done. I don't feel that there is a need for expensive forming dies if done this way and it works for me. I haven't lost a case yet due to crinkling.

[Drawdown]

Found this old thread while looking for 33wcf topics, had to bring it back up! It's a cartridge & rifle I've long been interested in, never have found around here. It and a Mod 71 in 348 being two I've always wished to try. To be honest, I believe I'd find the 33wcf in a good Mod 86 more to my use, it just like a 300 Savage in a Mod 99, just smells like eastern deer woods rifle & cartridge!

[LeverGunner]

I've never had one (yet), but I've always been intrigued by the cartridge. Thanks all for sharing.