OT- Mosin-Nagant

Chas. · Post by **Chas.** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:02 pm

I got a flyer from Bud's in my email day before yesterday. They had Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R in cosmoline for $92 shipped. I went back tonight to reference these guns, and they're no longer listed at Bud's. Evidently they all sold. Wouldn't be surprised if one buyer bought them all. However, Mosin-Nagant seems to be a very low-priced firearm at various other sites and I wonder about them. Are they worth a flip? One ad mentions that they were used by snipers. If that were true, they must be fairly accurate. Any insight to these would be appreciated.

JB · Post by JB » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:33 pm

About every military rifle in common military use during WWII had a sniper version, K98, 91/30, 03 Springfield, etc. The Mosin rifles have the potential to be fairly accurate just like most other rifles. You're dealing with 60+ year old rifles so you might get a very accurate rifle or just a very unaccurate rifle depending upon the condition of the bore. They're well built dependable rifles.

The prices seem to vary depending upon importation numbers. A number of years ago when the refurbished rifles first started being imported, I bought several for $175.00 a piece. Within two years I was ordering them at $39.00 a piece and crying about my $175.00 rifles.

They're very common rifles, so I wouldn't worry about Bud's being sold out. Keep your eyes open and you can probably find one at a local gun shop in the $50 to $100 range.

win38-55 · Post by **win38-55** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:41 pm

I have 4 Mosin Nagant 91/30 rifles. They are fairly accurate for an old rifle. You do have to watch what you buy though.
I only paid 69 bucks for one of mine and it shoots 1.5 inch groups at 100 all day long. I think one reason they are so cheap
is that, there are millions of these rifles out there, They are also very long rifles, so some of the younger crowd might pass on these
for something a bit shorter. I think every shooter should have at least one of these old Russian war horses in there collection.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:03 pm

out of the mosins the finns are the best.sako,tikka and VKT (valmet) are all very accurate rifles.next would be the hungarians and the polish rifles.
the russians are a chap shoot some shoot better than others.I think the hex recievers are the better shooters when it comes to the 91/30 rifles.these are pre war rifles.the war year rifles they were pumping them out as fast as they could.they have lots of tool marks and some bores can run large.
a few of mine.
finns

M28 sig (1928)

M27 tikka

M28/30 sako sky these have a .3082 bore

russians

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:27 pm

txpete wrote:out of the mosins the finns are the best.sako,tikka and VKT (valmet) are all very accurate rifles.next would be the hungarians and the polish rifles.
the russians are a chap shoot some shoot better than others.I think the hex recievers are the better shooters when it comes to the 91/30 rifles.these are pre war rifles.the war year rifles they were pumping them out as fast as they could.they have lots of tool marks and some bores can run large.
a few of mine.
finns

M28 sig (1928)

M27 tikka

M28/30 sako sky these have a .3082 bore

russians

WOW

WOW,what a gorgeous collection.Best I've ever seen. Marvelous Mosins, like I said, WOW!

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:37 pm

thanks. it started back in 90 with a finn M91 tikka I bought for 45.00

.I didn't know anything about them at that time.we went out to the ranch and put a target up.we were about to try using a string on the trigger to see if it would blow up

.I fired 3 rd's at about 80 yards and they were touching.I was hooked.
this one is about the rarest of the mosins.M1952 hungarian 91/30.
german proofed non import mosin.

polish M44

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:15 am

What pete said. I own no Mosins myself, my brother has a 91/30 and my dad enjoyed it enough he picked up an M38 (which charitably shoots minute of barn, but he's improving).

The pre-Revolution 1891 shoots the smoothest, the 91/30 is my favorite of all of them, and the M38 and M44 carbines....you definitely know they went off. Due to short sight radius it's a bit harder to hit with them at distance, but at the ranges they were expecting, they are fine.

Don't expect them to be tack drivers, a solid hit on the body was all they expected, "minute of Nazi" just like about any rifle of the period.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:14 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlRG-Afa ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIypxgwzXs

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:29 am

Everybody should have at least ONE. Mine.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:49 am

very nice rifle hobie.the spanish civil war rifles are getting harder to find and yours looks like its in exc. cond. most of these saw hard use.
my oldest is a old war dog 1898 tula(finn capture SA stamped).I have had it out to the range a few times with my cast loads.its a good shooter.
pete

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:11 am

My son and I just shot this past weekend the Mosin-Nagant M91/30 I purchased for him earlier this year. I picked it up for $89, as they had run out of the $79 ones. I doubt you'd be able to flip it for much unless you got an unusually fine or "rare" specimum. I got the same e-mail from Bud's, and when I was checking out their website for other things, they had a banner that they had sold over 600 of those rifles in one day!

The M91/30 is simply a fun gun. Probably the cheapest high-power shooting one can get into these days!

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:37 am

http://www.classicarms.us/

These people carry lots of Mosins at good prices.They are good people to deal with.

Stan in SC

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:34 pm

They're very common and lots of fun. Look for like new bores, no counter boring, and also look for Mosins that have not been import marked on the reciever (it's ugly - some are marked up on the barrel instead). Pitted/nasty bores are common but these rifles are all over the place so look for a good one for only a few dollars more. Some of the stockpiled re-arsenaled Soviet 91/30s are like new. Laminated stocks bring a premium as do handguards with brass fittings, but like new standard wood is not hard to find. Re-arsenaled 91/30s will be heavily varnished and usually chipping but you can easily strip it off if you like and finish as you wish.

Here's one of mine:

Cheers,
Oly

Captain Hero · Post by **Captain Hero** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:23 pm

i have a '28 Tula ex dragoon. last year of the CCCP stampings i believe. i love this thing. the power these things have compared to the price of the ammunition is very hard to beat. i pay 19 dollars and get 100 rds. of steel core russian surplus ammo made as late as '88. as stated the accuracy can be hit or miss. these rifles tend to draw a cult following. myself included.

finding an all original mosin is getting hard to do. ive seen several for sale that say "matching #'s" but infact if you look closely on many, you can see tool marks where the old numbers have been ground off and in turn was force matched during the refurb. most will have a line out though. but that doesnt mean that it will shoot any different. and there are still all matching number mosins out there. just less common.

these rifles are very reliable with a very minimal amount of parts. mine shoots better than the later rounded recievers previously covered. about 6.5-7" at 70 yrds. without a rest. overall finish was dropped to accomodate the war effort. they were accurate enough and killed many nazis.

these rifles can be very unforgiving in the recoil department. it doesnt bother me none, but some may find it very uncomfortable with the metal buttplate. the 91/30 generally generates about 16-17 ft-lbs. of recoil energy.

most of the stocks are post war and you can still find war time and pre war stocks around from time to time. and as stated before, everyone should own at least one.

original sniper models are getting scarce. at least at the moment. the recievers are marked and generaly if it had a scope then there will be filled holes on the inside of the reciever when you open the bolt. usually the scopes are not matching and many are reproductions built to specs. many mounts are original period but many do not match the rifle. im rambling. ill shut up now. great rifle for the price. just dont expect to drive tacks. and make sure to clean the cosmoline from the chamber or you will get the sticky bolt fever.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:26 am

Considering the 7.62X54 is still in heavy use worldwide for the PK series machine guns, Dragunovs and etc.....

Ammo's going to be around a long time. And the round is still an issued round for the Russian army and most ex-Warsaw Pact nations.....they haven't stopped making it.

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:35 am

One word of warning here. From what I have read the sniper rifles went down hill during the war. At first Sniper rifles were selected from those that held to either 1 or 1 + 1/4 minute of acurracy ( sorry dont' remember wich). Later they were just grabbed off the line. Oh lest there be any doubt the war I am talking about is the second world war. In short it may be an acutal Soviet Union Sniper rifle of WW2 but may not be as accurate as the stock bolt action you can buy at any gun store today.
Alan Wood

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:32 am

http://mosinnagant.net/finland/default.asp

http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/default.asp

http://mosinnagant.net/sniper%20section ... nipers.asp

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:21 am

i cant understand why this commi Mosin-Nagant gun is so popular.....

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:36 am

you can't even buy a ruger 10/22 for 79.00

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:39 am

Comrads...here are four out of probably the twenty or so that I purchased in groups of five when Century was running specials. Love the fine machining, never have seen such precision with a chisel and hammer.

If I recall, the 91/30's cost $39.00 each, the M44's and M38's were $59.00 each. They all have minute of barndoor accuracy as long as you are in the barn with the door closed.

Captain Hero · Post by **Captain Hero** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:54 am

this site here has loads of info on these old work horses. from identification marks to shooting and collecting the various models of mosins.

http://7.62x54r.net/

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:40 am

Stan in SC wrote:http://www.classicarms.us/

These people carry lots of Mosins at good prices.They are good people to deal with.

Stan in SC

Looks like they have some good rifles at good prices. I'm going to get one. Is it worth the extra money for the "Dragoon Era" ones on this site? And which one...Tula? Is the hex receiver preferred?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:55 am

Charles, sorry you missed that great buy for $92... but as I've found many times... things often happen for a reason. Like now: here they are for $69

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3MOSIN9130

Good outfit and they also carry good quality milsurp ammo = the real reason to get the mosin nagant rifle. You can take this to the range and shoot all morning for $20. Here's the ammo ($80 for 440 rounds): http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... groupid=40

They are also a good gun to stock in order to arm the local community in times of revolution

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:27 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:i cant understand why this commi Mosin-Nagant gun is so popular.....

Well first of all it's not a commie gun, it's a Czarist gun - the commies just used them same way the Finns did.

But that said do you have any milsurps? If so then I think you would appreciate a nice hex receiver Mosin if you get one with a great bore. There's something just very utilitarian about them that appeals to me the same way a Colt SAA does vs. the other "fussy" revolver designs of the era.

If you don't have any milsurps in the first place then I'm probably talking to the wall so disregard and move along.

Cheers,
Oly

Jimbo · Post by **Jimbo** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:32 pm

20+ years ago when I worked in Woolworth's that had a gun counter, we had some of the pre war (pre world war 1?) rifles, and they were marked Westinghouse on the receivers. Haven't seen any like them since. If I recall correctly they were going for about 60-70 bucks back then.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:46 pm

New England Westinghouse and Remington both made mosin nagants M91s.. no collection is complete without one of each.. at one time the NRA sold 'em for three or four dollars apiece.. The American made Mosins were made on contract to the Czarist government and when they defaulted and didn't buy them, the US government bailed out the two companies (hmmm.. sound familier??) and helped them liquidate the rifles.. Someone will join in here who knows a lot more about this... thanks Les

Captain Hero · Post by **Captain Hero** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:44 pm

alnitak wrote:
Stan in SC wrote:http://www.classicarms.us/

These people carry lots of Mosins at good prices.They are good people to deal with.

Stan in SC
Looks like they have some good rifles at good prices. I'm going to get one. Is it worth the extra money for the "Dragoon Era" ones on this site? And which one...Tula? Is the hex receiver preferred?

id go with an ex-dragoon. as most you will find will be configured as a 91/30. dragoons were made from 1893-1932 if im not mistaken. theres a lot of different made mosins but id keep it russian or finnish. the biggest difference from the dragoon from the 91/30 was the front and rear sights, barrel bands and the round reciever. These changes didn’t take place immediately, but were phased in as existing parts were used up and new machinery was put in place. usually you can tell a dragoon by the year it was made, but some hex recievers date as late as '36. the quality of the finish will most likely be better as opposed to the war time produced mosins. and of course you'll pay more, but the finnish made mosins are usually great shooters. prolly the worst year for production would be around 1943, with the high wall round recievers. they cut a lot of corners in the quality department to speed up production. but these rifles are still good shooters. so long as the bore isnt shot out. id try to find one with a good muzzle and that hasnt been counter-bored. although ive shot some that have been counter-bored and they shot fine. i try to stress finding one with a good bore with as little pitting as possible. gunbroker has several that are in pretty good shape. and id go with a tula if you can help it. although the Izhevsk rifles werent too bad, i like the Tula made ones.

and for the US made mosins, contracts were issued to New England Westinghouse and Remington for about 3 million M91s total. Remington and Winchester also supplied ammo at the time. These contracts were not fulfilled due to the Russian revolution and many of the rifles were sold on the US civilian market and to the US government for training. i believe these were deemed unsafe by todays standards. not sure though. they are getting scace now.

id suggest everyone to get one.

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:41 am

What type of rifle case do you use with yours? They are so loooooong mine doesn't fit any case I have.Mine shoots 4" groups with surplus ball ammo, minimal kick and great fun for reasons not entirely clear to me. Ammo twice the cost up here , or more.880 rds $369. Our dollar is at parity with U.S. dollar and prices for firearms are almost the same Factory ammo usually about equal too.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:27 am

Mine fits in my big Pelican double case.

Here is my 1942 Izzy.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:46 am

big bear wrote:What type of rifle case do you use with yours? They are so loooooong mine doesn't fit any case I have.Mine shoots 4" groups with surplus ball ammo, minimal kick and great fun for reasons not entirely clear to me. Ammo twice the cost up here , or more.880 rds $369. Our dollar is at parity with U.S. dollar and prices for firearms are almost the same Factory ammo usually about equal too.

Shotgun case will work. Generally the longest on the rack is the right one - got one for $15 at the local sporting goods store.

Cheers,
Oly

Captain Hero · Post by **Captain Hero** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:59 pm

i buy the 51" cases. they fit pretty good. i want a pelican, but i just cant fork out the cash for one just yet with my other projects goin on.

this is the site i buy my ammo from: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php ... r-fmj-ammo

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Commie rifle? Even if it was, you have a problem with owning a representative from each nation involved in the Great War? Don't you have a Mauser? How about an Arisaka? You HAVE to have a Garand, right?!

I got a Mosin Nagant 1938 (without the 1944 bayonet cutout, a proper 38 stock) and a Swiss K31 and a case of ammo for each for like two hundred bucks a few years ago before they went crazy.

Anyway here's an objective assessment of why the Mosin is superior to any other rifle:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

And see the movie "Enemy at the Gates" with Ed Harris.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:30 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:i cant understand why this commi Mosin-Nagant gun is so popular.....

Its about the history of the old rifles. I really enjoy collecting Finnish reworks of the Mosin Nagant rifles. The interesting part is they the Finns used the "commi Mosin-Nagant gun" against the USSR ie commies. The Finland is a Democratic country. How about the big question why didn't the US and Britain or France help out Finland when the USSR invaded it? The US did promise Finland money, material, and military help prior to the USSR invasion.

Steve

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:56 pm

SteveR wrote:
RIHMFIRE wrote:i cant understand why this commi Mosin-Nagant gun is so popular.....
Its about the history of the old rifles. I really enjoy collecting Finnish reworks of the Mosin Nagant rifles. The interesting part is they the Finns used the "commi Mosin-Nagant gun" against the USSR ie commies. The Finland is a Democratic country. How about the big question why didn't the US and Britain or France help out Finland when the USSR invaded it? The US did promise Finland money, material, and military help prior to the USSR invasion.

Steve

Sorry folks for being off the radar for a while but things have been busy for me. I agree about the history being an important factor on why they are so popular but also the cost. I too have a decent collection of Finns and Russians and I could tell you all that if they weren't relatively inexpensive compared to things such as K98's, springfields, enfields, etc, I wouldn't be able to afford as many as I own. With me, I became interested in the history of them when you could buy an arm-load of the old things for $100 or less and most of the ones I have will shoot very well. In fact, I can't think of any that I own that I paid over a hundred bucks for and thats including my Finn 91-24 which is fairly uncommon. I will try to post a picture of it in the coming days before I have to go back to work. Just my $.02 worth.

I'll try not to be such a stranger folks.

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:48 pm

Do read this page. "Things you know when you have a Mosin Nagant"

Idahoser wrote: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

And see the movie "Enemy at the Gates" with Ed Harris.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:03 pm

Back when I bought my M39 for 90 bucks they were considered just cheap beaters to shoot the heck out of or something to cut down into a deer rifle ...I picked mine cause the stock had the best figure, tho there were newer looking ones in the rack...I bought a bunch of the corrosive paper wrapped copper washed ammo so I'd have a cheap HP plinker...It shot to the sights well enough and sometimes I'd shoot that sucker till the handguard smoked... Then I found an article in one of my books (pre internet) about the Finns... Set it up like the book said & shot some groups and was impressed with the accuracy and Ball ammo... Went ahead and bedded it with Steel Bisonite to include the trigger guard & holes up to the receiver ...also the stock & handguard under the clamp... Shimmed the trigger... Recrowned it...Got dies.. Reloaded for it... That 39 was a real sleeper at the range there for a while before the Internet came along and wised up a bunch of folks to them... Now I get sneered at cause it's been modified... Give me a break!... That makes the millions of unmodified MNs worth more cause there's one less...LOL

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:09 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:i cant understand why this commi Mosin-Nagant gun is so popular.....

They make pretty good "truck guns" or for other uses where you don't want to scratch up a pretty winchester. I'd be more interested in one if i could find one in carbine length (kinda like an enfield Jungle Carbine) for low coin though. Looks pretty hard to swing a 30" barrel from inside the ROPD of my tractor (roll over protective device -- i keep an AR-15 carbine velcroed to it when i'm mowing in case an unsuspecting coyote shows himself)

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:03 pm

Streetstar wrote:if i could find one in carbine length (kinda like an enfield Jungle Carbine) for low coin though.

1938 and (the more common) 1944.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:10 am

if you can find a 91/59 jump on it.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:44 am

Streetstar wrote:
RIHMFIRE wrote:i cant understand why this commi Mosin-Nagant gun is so popular.....
They make pretty good "truck guns" or for other uses where you don't want to scratch up a pretty winchester. I'd be more interested in one if i could find one in carbine length (kinda like an enfield Jungle Carbine) for low coin though. Looks pretty hard to swing a 30" barrel from inside the ROPD of my tractor (roll over protective device -- i keep an AR-15 carbine velcroed to it when i'm mowing in case an unsuspecting coyote shows himself)

Hacksaw.

I'm seriously considering getting a ramline stock & cutting mine back to 20"...

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:56 am

MrMurphy wrote:the M38 and M44 carbines....you definitely know they went off.

Boy howdy...

The only milsurp I've owned that kicked harder than the M44 was a French MAS36. I kept the M44 around even after shifting away from MNs just to keep myself honest about my ability to handle recoil.

I finally got out of the 7.62x54R game altogether last year but if a nice Finn popped up for cheap (IOW someone doesn't know what they have

), I'd be tempted.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:01 am

awp101 wrote:
MrMurphy wrote:the M38 and M44 carbines....you definitely know they went off.
Boy howdy... The only milsurp I've owned that kicked harder than the M44 was a French MAS36. ...

True dat. Hammer of Thor. (Or Ivan, take your pick). If I do cut mine back, I'm dang sure going to try to find some sort of brake for it.

Thing is, I've got so much 54R that I really should get a PSL/FPK/Druganov clone...

JB · Post by JB » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:34 am

I think the muzzle flash from the shorter barreled Mosins might help with the perceived recoil. We're all different in how we handle recoil, but I've honestly never found any of the Mosins to have any more recoil than many bolt action rifles, and less than most magnums.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:10 pm

Just slip into a big thick Ivan type winter great coat...

The short buttstock is gone...the crappy buttplate nestles nicely

..........Poof!! recoil probs solved..

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:56 pm

The Mosin Model 91/59 is a 91/30 cut down to carbine length.They all have great bores and shoot great.Being a cut down long rifle it has a slightly thicker barrel than an M38 or M44 carbine.I think this adds to it's accuracy.Several years ago I took a great shooting 91/59 and put it in an ATI synthetic stock and free floated the barrel,installed a Huber ball bearing trigger,had the bolt turned down,installed a scout scope mount in place of the rear sight and had Jim Robertson make me a ring tail piece to make the safety easier to engage/disengage.Came out to be a nice looking ,VERY accurate rifle.
I really wound up with too much money in it but it sure shoots good.
My other Mosin is a Finn Model 39.Also a good shooter.
I was REALLY into Mosins several years ago.Here's acouple of articles from the Surplus Rifle website about a litlle doo dad I developed for Mosins.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/mo ... /index.asp
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/lt2/index.asp
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2005 ... 082005.asp
I sold these all over the world for six years.You would be surprised some of the countries where there are Mosin addicts.

Stan in SC

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:24 pm

Stan are you still making and selling those?

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:26 am

jreed,They are still being made by this gent.
http://www.scgunco.com/
You may contact him if you want one.The product is referred to s "LT2".

Stan in SC