Making a great 92 better

[levelhead]

I have a M92 Puma rifle, .44Mag octagonal bbl, case hardened and I love it. I have a few problems and am curious if you know of a fix. When fired the magazine tube slides forward on recoil. I have had to loosen the front screw and tap it back with a rubber mallet, in the field. Not fun when deer hunting. How should I go about making it solid?
Another problem is the sights. The lowest stock setting still shoots 10" high at 50 ft., Yes Feet. Can you recommend a good sight replacement in keeping with tradition?
Great shooter and I would rather make it right than trade it.
Thanks a lot.

[Chas.]

Can't help with your questions but I'm curious as to the responses. The mag tube on mine also walks out. The screw at the muzzle end jumps out of it's capture hole and the mag tube walks forward, even with very moderate loads. Be grateful for any solutions.

[Ysabel Kid]

Steve Young, a.k.a. "Nate Kiowa Jones", should find this post shortly. He's forgotten more about the '92 than any of us will ever know. He'll know the appropriate fix for you!

BTW, welcome to the forum!

[kimwcook]

Steve will have the answer as he's our resident expert on the '92, but I'm sure there are others too.

Welcome to the forum.

[Hanzerik]

I don't have an issue with the mag tube waking on either of my .44 Rossi/pumas so I can't help there...other than duct tape

For the sights, I switched mine out with sights from Marble Arms. The 16" got a .475" front and a bullseye rear. The 20" got a .375"(?) front, a folding rear, and a tang sight. I'm thinking of moving the front sight on the 16" to a .500" tall sight. It doesn't have the adjustment right now that I would like.

[rogn]

This may or may not help. Ive had some erratic fliers with my 20" 45 colt. In trying to correct that, which I think Ive done. Ive run 3 thicknesses of heavy rubber band between the barrel and the mag tube. This puts an upward force on the barrel, but the rubber seems to dampen the inertial loading on the mag tube as well. So far Ive not seen the movement of the mag tube that Id seen before. Havent shot it more than 20 times since using the rubber band damper, this with 26 H110 and 250 XTPs . Recoil is significant. Hope it helps.

[dpe.ahoy]

Mine did that also, took 2 trips to the smith to get it stopped. He drilled the hole for the screw that goes thru the mag tube into the barrel deeper into the barrel. That and a longer, hardened screw seems to have fixed the problem for me. It's been ok for a couple of years now with out any issues. If that hadn't worked, he was talking about dovetailing the barrel and drill and tap the insert for the screw. The metal of the barrel is soft enough the screw will etch a groove working it's way out. DP

[Hobie]

You need a higher front sight to correct your sighting problem. This one can be shaped to suit. Click on the pic...

[rodeo kid]

Hobie, what are all the pits and bumps on that thing?

[AJMD429]

For the sights, I switched mine out with sights from Marble Arms. The 16" got a .475" front and a bullseye rear. The 20" got a .375"(?) front, a folding rear, and a tang sight. I'm thinking of moving the front sight on the 16" to a .500" tall sight. It doesn't have the adjustment right now that I would like.

Love the Marble's for FAST shooting, and they're about as accurate as I can shoot from a standing position. Adjust same as the factory sights.



Plus they leave far more visible to the shooter than conventional 'open' sights...I shaded in the area a normal open sight would have covered with the same front sight.



For 'precision' I prefer the Williams FP's, or the more fragile, and less-easy to adjust, tang sights, whether on a Marlin or Rossi or whatever.

[levelhead]

Well I got a lot of input and went to work on my sights since I am in deer season and need to move now. I filed the slot deeper on the rear sight and laser bore sighted it to where I believe I should be close. I also ordered the proper Marbles sights including a higher front sight.
Now to the Mag slide. I figured I may make a screw to thread though into the mount for the mag tube or increase the diameter of the pin through the same. A larger diameter pin would get into the tube and maybe give it some needed traction.
Kind of a weenie way to secure the Magazine tube by the manufacturer. Did Winchester do the same thing.
Watcha tink?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Well I got a lot of input and went to work on my sights since I am in deer season and need to move now. I filed the slot deeper on the rear sight and laser bore sighted it to where I believe I should be close. I also ordered the proper Marbles sights including a higher front sight.
Now to the Mag slide. I figured I may make a screw to thread though into the mount for the mag tube or increase the diameter of the pin through the same. A larger diameter pin would get into the tube and maybe give it some needed traction.
Kind of a weenie way to secure the Magazine tube by the manufacturer. Did Winchester do the same thing. Watcha tink?

If you get more into the tube you may interfere with the mag tube follower and prevent it going past that spot limiting the number of rounds the gun will hold.

Winchester did it similarly but the mag plug had an egg shape lip (sorta) that required turning the plug into a slot milled into the barrel there under the muzzle. You could to the same thing but you would have to pretty much build a new plug.

This may or may not help. Ive had some erratic fliers with my 20" 45 colt. In trying to correct that, which I think Ive done. Ive run 3 thicknesses of heavy rubber band between the barrel and the mag tube. This puts an upward force on the barrel, but the rubber seems to dampen the inertial loading on the mag tube as well. So far Ive not seen the movement of the mag tube that Id seen before. Havent shot it more than 20 times since using the rubber band damper, this with 26 H110 and 250 XTPs . Recoil is significant. Hope it helps.

That sounds like it would do, but for these heavy recoiler what I do is just silicone the forewood to the mag tube and glass bed it and the buttstock. The silicone will prevent the tube from moving and the glass bedding prevents the wood from moving.
This works well for the round barrel carbines but it’s a little more involved with the octagon rifles. I still glass bed the wood but I also epoxy the tube to the forend tennon under the forend cap. To do this you have to remove some wood under the cap. (wish i had picture)

Anyway, that's how this 45lc rifle was done. The stocks were glass bedded and the tube epoxied behind the forened tennon.

[Chas.]

Steve, once you epoxy the forend to the mag tube behind the tenon, is there any way to remove the mag tube at a later time if needed.

[levelhead]

I like the glass bedding idea, I have done a bunch of that. Epoxying the mag tube to the fore end sounds real permanent but I suppose there is no further reason to remove it unless replacing it.
I think a pin still might be easier and after measuring the distance between the tube end and the bracket I think the spring when compressed along with the end plug may leave plenty of space for springs and things and cartridges. Seems much more solid with the possibility of removal down the road. I will let you know. Any clue where to get a replacement Lever and Breech Block Pin Hole Plug Screw? What else would you call it.
thanks to all.

[Hobie]

Hobie, what are all the pits and bumps on that thing?

I believe that is an "as cast" part. It looks like water droplets to me no pits. For the price, a little file and stone work (you have to shape it anyway) doesn't seem a big problem.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Steve, once you epoxy the forend to the mag tube behind the tenon, is there any way to remove the mag tube at a later time if needed.

Ok, let me clarify. For the round barrel carbines I don't epoxy, I silicon the tube into the wood then glass bed the wood to the reciever. Then if i need to remove the wood from the tube I just use a flame to push some heat into the tube to loosen the silicon.

For the octagon rifle I do use epoxy on the tube just behind the tennon but not enough to epoxy the wood. (you have to clearance the wood to make room for the epoxy) The forend cap covers this so to remove it move the cap forward so you can get to the epoxy then with a little heat on the tennon the epoxy can be removed.

Edit, here's a picture. Notice the slight blue tint. That is the releasing agent I used on the cap and barrel and tennon. The inside of the wood was waxed so the epoxy does stick well to it. The idea being to block the mag with the epoxy into the tennen to keep is from moving forward.

[Griff]

There are supposed to be two pins that hold the mag tube in place; 1 - a crosspin thru the magtube hanger:

magpin.JPG

And the primary retaining pin is part of the mag cap screw. This protrudes into a hole in the bottom of the barrel. If it is a little short, the hole is buggered up or the tube hanger allows too much movement, then the mag tube can jump forward. If the tube is loose in the ring, you might need to shim the inside on the bottom of the ring to hold the tube up into the pin. If the mag cap screw is too short, install a longer one. If the hole is buggered up, that might require some advanced metal-working skills. And, if the hole is just too shallow, see a gunsmith to get it drilled a bit deeper.

magcap-screw.JPG

magcap.JPG

This is clearly a situation where the K.I.S.S. principle should be kept in play. When assembled correctly, the design has worked since the 1st rifle versions of the Improved Henry! I have Winchesters in models '73, '92 & '94 all using the same magtube retention method. Heavily loaded .45 Colts and .30-30s recoil every bit as much as a .44Mag, yet the retention method used are the same.

YMMV, good luck.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Griff,
What you showed is correct, but not all of these guns will work with just the hanger pin the the plug screw. Particularly if it has already jumped the tube. Even winchester recogized the problem and that's why they used the odd mag plug with the rim that extented into the slot milled below the muzzle.

Picture added.


The Tu-tone gun pictured in my other post hasn't jumped but I wanted to get ahead of it. That gun will eventually be chambered for the 454 casull rounds. (I need a different carrier for it) So, that's why it got the glass and epoxy.

[levelhead]

Nice help and good pix. My tube is about 1/16th below barrel and the screw in the end extends but I think I will put a longer one in there. The hole in the barrel is more of a dish shape and doesn't
lock up at all. The band is tite and the handguard and such are tite. Just a bunch of recoil. For tomorrow's hunt, I have made a rubber plug for the hole and screwed the mag tube end screw down tite and until my return I hope it holds. If not it will still shoot and after all One shot, One kill.
thanks for the help, I will send pix.

[Griff]

Nate, my apologies, I started that reply several hours ago, didn't see your post (& a coupla others) until I was previewin' mine to make sure my typos were fixed & pics displayed right. Didn't read 'em b4 I hit that submit button.

And, yea, once that hole's buggered up there ain't much in the way of replacin' parts is gonna do outside replacing the barrel.

You know me... do the least damage you can do while fixin' the problem... 'Tain't always easy !

[Chas.]

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

[levelhead]

Well, I got a good deer with it but the mag tube nudged up a touch. Steve, I like that fix, I am doing it today. Has the plug got a rounded edge on the entering point so it cams in or what?
Sure appreciate the assist.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Well, I got a good deer with it but the mag tube nudged up a touch. Steve, I like that fix, I am doing it today. Has the plug got a rounded edge on the entering point so it cams in or what?
Sure appreciate the assist.

Ok, the way I did this is the forend wood is funneled back at about a 45 degree angle then waxed so the epoxy won't stick. The barrel and tennon got releasing agent but not the tube. I like the stuff Brownells sells for releasing agent. It's water based, leaves a fine very thin film so the epoxy won't stick. The idea is to build an epoxy stop on the tube behind the tennon. But not stuck to the barrel or wood. The wax and releasing agent prevents this.
now, to get it apart you slide the cap forward then apply some heat to the tennon and dig the epoxy out as you work the tube forward. It's a PITA to do but it does stop the tube from jumping.
There is an alternate fix but it requires D&T-ing the tennon for larger longer forend cap screws to pinch the tube through the tennon. This requires notching the tube at the screws. Otherwise you stand the chance of dimpling the tube and the follower won't pass.
I prefer the epoxy method because it retains the original parts

[levelhead]

I get that, makes sense to me. You think like I do. I use the Brownell stuff and it is real effective. Have used it since 1978. I will let you know and again thanks for the input.