38-55 Brass - a Case Study

[Whit Spurzon]

Starline finally did a run on the 38-55 2.125" brass and it arrived this afternoon ;D


Wind and I split an order of 500 - tried to bump it up to 1,000 but they didn't have the inventory... :-\


Starline 2.125 and Winchester 38-55 brass


Right out of the box


Side by side comparison

The Lee 379-250 RF shoots very well in both Wind's and my 336 Cowboys. With the Winchester brass the Lee bullet must be sized to .379" in order to cycle into Wind's and mine will cycle them as cast. His shoots the .379" sized bullets very well and mine has a definite preference for the larger as cast variety.


Lee bullet as cast


The as cast Lee bullet in Starline Brass wide dimension is .395" Loaded with the (excellent) RCBS Cowboy dies, crimping die set ~5/8 of a turn past touching.


The Winchester brass loaded with an as cast Lee Bullet. This round will cycle easily through my CB but NOT Wind's.

The OAL for the Lee bullet in the Starline 38-55 2.125" case is 2.530" using all of the crimp groove. It cycles flawlessly through my CB. Comparatively the OAL I've been using with the Winchester/Lee combo is 2.500"

I'm very excited to see how they shoot. I suspect the bullet seated out closer to the lands may be more optimal for accuracy. It may allow Wind to shoot fatter bullets in his which might improve the already impressive accuracy he's getting with his CB

Medicine for dingers

[Pop Watts]

You guys are unstoppable.

Pop

[Hobie]

That Starline long .38-55 brass is good stuff. My 500 came from the first run.

[Griff]

Sure wish I had the time to shoot... this all work & no play is gettin' to me. Ten more days for a weekend off!

Looking forward to reading more of your exploits!

[Sixgun]

Whit,
Them's is some purty bullets and brass. Ain't it neat looking at that stuff? Kinda gives you a feeling of great satisfaction in knowing there's lots of playtime ahead.

There's just something about playing with neat guns, loading for 'em and busting things at long/short/moderate range with 'em, all with the bullets you made. I've been doing it near daily for close to 40 years and I still can't get enough.

Went to an auction the other night and a 1922 produced '94 src followed me home. Like I need another. Whew! great country we live in!

BTW, you guys have too much money--I've been using 30-30 brass for 38-55's for so long, I forgot what a 38-55 headstamp looks like. also btw, when using 30-30 brass, you can load 'bout any diameter bullet you want and that baby will still chamber, feed and shoot--------accuractely -------------------Sixgun

[Whit Spurzon]

Whew! great country we live in!

BTW, you guys have too much money--I've been using 30-30 brass for 38-55's for so long, I forgot what a 38-55 headstamp looks like. also btw, when using 30-30 brass, you can load 'bout any diameter bullet you want and that baby will still chamber, feed and shoot--------accuractely -------------------Sixgun

Sixgun- You're so right about the USA, ain't a better place on earth.

About the having too much money... I wish. If I had that problem there'd be a bunch more 38-55 molds to play with, a jazzy tang sight on most of my leverguns and plenty of targets to shoot a few steps from my reloading bench. The voracious appetite my Marlins have pretty much insure that my "allowance" gets spent well in advance of me earning it. That is especially true for my 38-55 Marlin...

I should probably play the Lotto, even though I feel like I've already won it with the many blessings I've already received including being born in the USA. I got dealt a mighty fine hand, something I thank God for daily.

Good info on the 30-30 brass. What length does it end up after re-forming it?

[Noah Zark]

A case study. LOL!

Best of luck with the experiments!

Noah

[Catshooter]

I agree, the 38-55 is a grand old cartridge. I've got some Winchester brass but I've never used it. All I've shot in my 94 is blown out 30-30. I shot in our local lever silhouette for just over a year with it before moving.

This is how I blew mine out. I found out that I needed to aneal first or I'd loose 25% or so in the fireforming. I also found out not to over aneal or the mouths would be too soft and lots would fold over during belling. Just barely dull red worked for me.

So after anealing, I would prime (large pistol), drop in eight or nine grains of HS-6, then fill the brass with Cream O' Wheat to within about an eigth of the case mouth. Then press in enough bullet lube to hold everything in place.

It's work, but then this was a the peak of the Obama Effect and real 38-55 was unobtainium.

The rounds shoot very nicely. I use a Lyman 375449 that all ready to go weighs in at 285 grains. Over some AA 2230 it runs just about 1750 fps (26 inch barrel).

From the bench the best I could do was a nice round inch and a half nine round (full mag) group at 150 yards.

It is the best country on earth and I want to live no where else, that's for sure.


Cat

[Sixgun]

I should probably play the Lotto, even though I feel like I've already won it with the many blessings I've already received including being born in the USA. I got dealt a mighty fine hand, something I thank God for daily.

Good info on the 30-30 brass. What length does it end up after re-forming it?

OK Whit--first things first--One of the biggest culture issues and downfall of our great society is the quest for unearned income. If it comes out of the sky, well, I'll take it. I don't look for it and play no games of chance. Like you, I too feel blessed just by being born in the good 'ole U.S. of A.

On to business--Catshooter (I like that name! )
has it down pretty good on blowing out the 30-30 cases. I used to do just about that and one day, while experimenting, I found an easier way.

1.) I started out annealing but soon found out I did not have to do that.

2.) I take a fired 30-30 case and run it through a 35 Whelen neck expander. (The neck expander is the tapered design that easily allows one to form 35 Whelen from 30-06 )
a.) any 35 cal or for that matter, a .338 neck expander will work or you can use both of them

3.) Then I run that case through a .378 Weatherby neck expander. You can use your 38-55 ne but my 378 Weatherby NE is also tapered.

4.) FLR in 38-55 sizer-- Depending on brand of brass that you use, they usually wind up around 1.900 or a bit over. I just load 'em like that and after the first firing, I FLR and trim to 1.900.

I do all this on an RCBS Pro-2000 and can make 100 cases in about 15 minutes.

I seat the bullets out to maximum OAL and crimp with a Lee factory crimp die that I had to grind some off so it would crimp.

Not much to it. Most guys have neck expanders between the 30 cal and 375 cal. Heck, even a 32 spl will help some.

Keep in mind, I don't run no "redneck" operation for my 38-55's. With this brass and my old levergun rifles, the accuracy has been good enough to win matches against guys who use $3,000 Sharps rifles at semi-long range (up to 500 meters)-------------Sixgun

[fordwannabe]

Whit what alloy are you using to make those purty boolits? Tom

[Whit Spurzon]

Whit what alloy are you using to make those purty boolits? Tom

That batch there was made from some of the lead forum member Wind had. His 38-55's appetite is as voracious as my 38-55. He may have the specifics. Seems to me it's somewhere between WW and Lyman #2

[Wind]

Hey there fordwannabe -- The ingots Whit is casting with are very similar to the Lyman #2 formula with a BHN of 14. I quit casting 30 years ago and as Whit really enjoys casting, and I have a ton of ingots (literally), he has been gracious enough to cast some for both of us. I pan lube them here and stuff them back into cases over some fresh powder and primers. They have a very short shelf-life here, that is for sure and for certain. Thought I'd toss in a pan lube picture for your dinning and dancing pleasure. Best regards. Wind

[fordwannabe]

I have also done some pan lubing, and lee liquid alox, and lyman 55 and lee sizer dies. Ok I have done about all the lubing I can think of. Most of the time I find that I need to size the boolits anyway so it is almost as easy to do it in the lubrisizer as any other way. How are the lee boolits shooting? I am not normally a big fan of bevel based boolits but if they are working for you I might try them. I just got a H&R 1871 in 38-55 and it has never been fired (still had the hang tags on the triggerguard when i got it), so i am looking for info on loads and what is working for others. Thanks Tom

[Whit Spurzon]

fordwannabe: The Lee 379-250 RF bullet was recommended to me by two other 38-55 Marlin 336 Cowboy owners and has proven to be quite accurate in my CB and Wind's CB. It seems to be happiest right around 1300 fps and Unique gets it there. Properly sized and lubed I've had no issues with leading.


50 yards, open sights, front rested. The flier was probably me.

[fordwannabe]

I'll go get a mold then. Thank you