OT Dryfiring a weapon

[RustyJr]

I was wondering if anyone knows if it would hurt to dryfire an AR15 for practice purposes. I know that some weapons the manufaturer states that it is safe to dry fire but Im not sure about the AR.


Thanks,
RustyJr

[Otto]

Can't give you an accurate technical answer, but I used to dry-fire mine some(not like I do a Ruger revolver), with no ill effects.

Performing a function check involves dry-firing, but that is not something one does hundreds of times.

EDIT Actually, now that I have thought about it, I recall that one must not drop the hammer when the upper has been separated from the lower, lest the receiver be damaged near the bolt catch. The hammer does not strike that area when the rifle is fully assembled.

[AJMD429]

Another non-official answer would be to just get a "snap-cap" like the ones by Tipton or A-Zoom, which has material there to accept and buffer the firing pin impact to the primer area.

I think the BIG deal is with rimfire guns with firing pins that protrude so far that they may peen the chamber rim, and with guns where the bolt face is thin enough that the 'conical' firing pin tip may eventually peen open/out the firing pin hole in the bolt face.

My guess is that the AR bolt/firing pin should be undamaged by dry firing, but one way to check would be to go to major manufacturers' web sites, find the 'user manuals' and search them for comments about it.

[donw]

i broke the firing pin of my desert eagle, baby eagle...but I'm not sure if it was due to 'dry firing'.

i don't really see how dry firing could hurt a centerfire. like said above, rimfire firing pins could easily impact the breech face causing damage there.

when dry firing my .22 rimfires, i use a spent .22 rimfire shell.

[C. Cash]

Alot of people do it, but my practice is to avoid it and just shoot the gun as much as I can. Hard metal being forced onto/into hard metal is a little unnerving to me, especially if one's life might depend on that little piece of metal being smashed. Others will think differently, but I try to avoid anything but very occassional dry firing. Sometimes I will put a piece of cotton T-shirt in the hammer recess of a SA revolver or my Winchester, and dry fire it a bit. I use snap caps on my double, but changing those out as they become worn is a pain. I am in search of good ones that won't deform when they are struck by the pin.

[AJMD429]

I use snap caps on my double, but changing those out as they become worn is a pain. I am in search of good ones that won't deform when they are struck by the pin.

Yeah, when you see a permanent 'dimple' in the snap-cap after a few uses, it seems like the 'benefit' may be gone. It seems like they should approximate a primer in terms of decellerating the firing pin and absorbing its energy, yet rebound or re-form so they can continue to do it over and over again. I like the Tipton design with the spring, but it still seems like a harder 'fake primer' would work better; the plastic gets permanent dents after a dozen firings.

[Old No7]

"I don't really see how dry firing could hurt a centerfire..."

You know, I used to wonder about the same thing... I always thought that actual shooting would be much tougher on the guns than dry firing.

That question was once posed to the resident gunsmith/expert on RugerForum, and he replied saying when you shoot live ammo, there's time between shots when you're recovering from recoil -- even if you're blasting away. It may not apply to rifles or shotguns or semi-auto pistols with snap caps, but he said with revolvers, it was very common for a user to "blast away" while dry firing. As there is no recoil, and no focus on sight picture or where bullets were hitting, it was not uncommon for users to peen the heck out of the bolts and cylinders -- by getting the revolver's cylinder spinning so fast the parts were slamming against each other. Bolt slots and bolts are vulnerable to peening or damage, and it can even happen in SA mode if you're too rough with the gun. After thinking about it, I could remember doing that myself "once or twice" before , and then it made sense to me.

Nowadays when I do dry fire -- which I find to be very valuable practice in the weeks/days leading up to a match always with an empty/safe piece of course -- I make sure to use A-Zoom or Pachmyer snap caps, but I'm mindful of how vigorous I'm cocking and handling the revolvers, if that's the type of gun for the match.

Tight groups.

Old No7

[Otto]

"I don't really see how dry firing could hurt a centerfire..."

You know, I used to wonder about the same thing... I always thought that actual shooting would be much tougher on the guns than dry firing.

That question was once posed to the resident gunsmith/expert on RugerForum, and he replied saying when you shoot live ammo, there's time between shots when you're recovering from recoil -- even if you're blasting away. It may not apply to rifles or shotguns or semi-auto pistols with snap caps, but he said with revolvers, it was very common for a user to "blast away" while dry firing. As there is no recoil, and no focus on sight picture or where bullets were hitting, it was not uncommon for users to peen the heck out of the bolts and cylinders -- by getting the revolver's cylinder spinning so fast the parts were slamming against each other. Bolt slots and bolts are vulnerable to peening or damage, and it can even happen in SA mode if you're too rough with the gun. After thinking about it, I could remember doing that myself "once or twice" before , and then it made sense to me.

Nowadays when I do dry fire -- which I find to be very valuable practice in the weeks/days leading up to a match always with an empty/safe piece of course -- I make sure to use A-Zoom or Pachmyer snap caps, but I'm mindful of how vigorous I'm cocking and handling the revolvers, if that's the type of gun for the match.

Tight groups.

Old No7

What is the point of dry-firing, if one is not concerned with the sight picture?

[C. Cash]

I use snap caps on my double, but changing those out as they become worn is a pain. I am in search of good ones that won't deform when they are struck by the pin.

Yeah, when you see a permanent 'dimple' in the snap-cap after a few uses, it seems like the 'benefit' may be gone. It seems like they should approximate a primer in terms of decellerating the firing pin and absorbing its energy, yet rebound or re-form so they can continue to do it over and over again. I like the Tipton design with the spring, but it still seems like a harder 'fake primer' would work better; the plastic gets permanent dents after a dozen firings.

That's the way I see it as well Doc. The springs on my Stevens Double are so strong the snap caps look like fired shells after 3-4 strikes. They should do what you suggest indeed. I guess it's a non-problem for those who sell snap caps as they just keep selling them. This has got me thinking a bit.........we could be somebody if we figured it out!

[Hobie]

The military versions are often dry-fired thousands of times, especially those used in basic training units. They suffer no damage from this use.

PS - of the hundreds of rifles and hundreds of soldiers over 15 years when I was responsible for training, ranges and arms room(s) I never replaced one single firing pin. Not one.

[Old Time Hunter]

The engineer in me says that the inertia built up when throwing the pin forward, without a spent shell or snap cap stopping the momentum, would eventually stretch the portion of the pin forward of the seat in the bolt. Eventually this might cause a stress point that could be liable for failure.

Just my .02....but that is in USA funds, so it might only be worth a penny and a half.

[piller]

The M16s we had in the Army were dry fired a lot and never seemed to have any damage. I just didn't like the M16, but by the time I was in, it was as reliable as any rifle I have ever seen. I have personally dry fired one in training over a hundred times before taking it to a range and shooting over 200 rounds without a single failure. Even if the firing pin does stretch or break, it is a matter of 2 minutes or less to replace. I know they can be replaced because they were simple to remove for cleaning, and the armorer had a couple of replacement firing pins sitting in a drawer collecting dust.

[medicdave]

The ar/m16 shouldn't be dry fired with out the upper on as the hammer smacks the mag well. Otherwise its good to go dropping the hammer on an empty chamber.