Unscrewing a barrel?

[LeverBar]

I've received some advice which is--Don't do it yourself. Have a gunsmith do it for you.

I'd like to know how difficult it is and what the dangers are of unscrewing the barrel of an old '94 octagon. I'm trying to solve two guns' problems by switching their barrels.

Any "do's/don't's I should consider?

In reading a bit about it, one method is to secure the barrel in a vise, fit a block of (?) into the receiver and turn the receiver off the barrel. This tells me that there is a danger to springing/bending the receiver out of shape.

After inserting the block inside the receiver, could a fellow customize a couple 2x4's to fit the outer shape of the receiver to help disperse the tensions on it?

What is a good way to hold the barrel in a vise without gunshop tools?

One suggestion was that if the threads are stuck, heat the area with a torch to loosen the hold.

I'd like to get on this project now, so I'm balking at waiting for a smith to get to it in his rotation.

[Malamute]

You can twist the receiver by trying to unscrew a barrel that way. If the receiver is junk, you have nothing to lose, if it's usable, you could make it junk. Depends on what it's worth to have it done right away.

A proper shaped action wrench is what's needed, gripping right at the front of the action flats so it doesnt crush or twist the action, and some sort of blocks that will hold the barrel tightly. Just clamping the barrel in a regular vise can damage the barrel also. There are tons of old Winchesters with pipe wrench and regular wrench marks (twisted off the flats) on the barrels, and often they didnt get the barrel out anyway, ruining the looks and value of the gun and not achieving anything in the process.

At the very least, take some time to research it further, and perhaps buy or borrow the proper tools to do it properly.

I've swapped barrels on Winchesters, it isnt rocket science, but then again, without good tools, and/or a complete understanding of what's involved, you run a serious risk of damaging the gun.

You absolutely positively have to have the bolt open what you do it or the extractor will be totaled. It's best to remove any screws that will be touched by the action wrench, as they can be crushed.

An action wrench is a simple tool, generally consisting of two blocks of thick steel, with holes to accept two bolts to clamp the wrench to the action. It will generally have a handle attached to one block to turn the blocks with. See if there's a picture in the Brownells catalog online or the catalog. The barrel blocks can be hard wood, or probaly even soft wood that fit the contours of the barrel closely so it wont move when the action is turned. Grip the barrel as close to the receiver as possible.


What problems are you trying to fix? There may be a simpler way to achieve what you want to do. I can't think of the situation that swapping barrels would help both guns?

[LeverBar]

One barrel is corroded to ugliness. The other--the receiver has a home-made tang that is too thick, shows welding marks, isn't drilled properly for screws.

By switching, one rifle will be a good hunting gun. The other will be a not pretty rifle.

[Malamute]

That makes sense.


You may want to check around to see if other gunsmiths might do the job quickly. Last barrel I had swapped, the guy charged me $15 if I had the gun already stripped down, and it took a couple days. It would have taken longer to hook up with my friend that had the tools.

[BenT]

It might not happen all at once. It could take a few days to do. Don't force it. If it doesn't come soak with kroil for a day and repeat. Be patient.A gunsmith wouldn't charge that much to do it. An hours labor.

[45-70-]

I was always lead to believe you cant just swap barrels cause the threads are cut on each one to make it snug up to the reciever for proper head space and also just cause the octagon barrel lines up right on one receiver doesnt mean it will on another one.

Thats just what I have been told. I am not a gunsmith and could be way off base on this issue. Just dont want to see you mess up a gun, even an ugly gun

[Malamute]

That is true on many guns, and may apply on some individual Winchester 94's, but most 94 barrels that I have heard of have indexed pretty well.

[Bronco]

Doesn't the head space have to be checked after the swap????
John

[handirifle]

You ALWAYS have to check headspace after swapping barrels. These barrels have a shoulder that seats against the receiver and there could easily be several .000's difference in the two receivers.

Setting headspace can be a tricky part on barrels like this cause if there's too much, the shoulder needs to be set back a little, too little and the chamber needs to be reamed a bit more.

I swap barrels on my Savage rifles all the time, but they're a whole lot easier to work with.

[gtaylor]

I recently aquired P.O. Ackley's "Home Gun Care and Repair" It is an interesting read. I don't have it in front of me, but he encouraged the home handyman in swapping Model 94 Barrels, and laid out a methodology with a good vise, a hardwood block, and a big ole crescent wrench. I haven't done it, so can't add anything, but would encourage you to get your hands on the book and take a look.

[Malamute]

The Winchester 94's are a little more forgiving on headspace. For one thing, the round has a moderate pressure that doesn't tend to cause big problems IF it's a little off. PO Ackley did some tests with a 94, unscrewing the barrel, eventually up to 2 full threads, having to extend the firing pin to get it to fire. The primer backed out the exact amount that the barrel was set back, and the shell stayed in the chamber every time, without blowing the head of the brass out or any such thing as one would expect with a modern high intensity round with headspace problems.


What seems to be the case with gunsmiths I've asked about it, if the barrel indexes, the headspace is usually close in 94's. All the rounds it chambers in traditional rounds are based on the same rimmed base case and have the same headspace.

Same with 1903 Springfields. They typically index and headspace OK. They kept good control of tolerances.

I think it's a good idea to check the headspace, but I wouldn't sweat it if everything looked good and a round chamered OK. I"d shoot one round,i f the primer doesnt back out much, then I'd shoot it. Many of the 94's I've had or seen will back the primer out a little. Some I've shot like that for years.

[LeverBar]

While looking at action wrenches on eBay, I found a set that might work--wrench and vise. Coincidence, the seller lives about 25 miles from me! --small world--

I had asked my best gun guy in town about it, he doesn't smith, but he gave me a name of a fellow who could do it in about a month. I'm not sold on this man though; I'd have to check about his expertise. He is an auto mechanic and does his own smithing on the side. Could be a good man to do it, I just don't know yet.

The best smith in Central Oregon lives within a few miles of the fellow who has the wrench for sale--it looks as if he manufactures them himself, but I'm not certain of that.

I'm going to get on the telephone today, and call the best smith. If he can do it soon, I'll go with him. Otherwise, it looks as if I will be buying a set of tools.

[Hagler]

I recently aquired P.O. Ackley's "Home Gun Care and Repair" It is an interesting read. I don't have it in front of me, but he encouraged the home handyman in swapping Model 94 Barrels, and laid out a methodology with a good vise, a hardwood block, and a big ole crescent wrench. I haven't done it, so can't add anything, but would encourage you to get your hands on the book and take a look.

Dude! I saw that, too. Ackley says to use a heavy "shipping tag" around the receiver, then clamp the Crescent wrench down on the tag, near the front of the receiver. That tag is so you do not marr the receiver. I believe then twist the wrench to remove the action from the barrel. Remove the breechbolt before you do this, so you do not bust the extractor.

Shawn

[Hagler]

[jd45]

I also would recommend letting a REALLY qualified gunsmith handle this chore. The money spent initially would be insurance against money having to be spent at a later date to correct anything that went wrong by a non-professional. Just my 2 cents, jd45

[Leverdude]

I never tried it on a barrel I cared about but have got 2 off without hurting the reciever. One I didn't care about because someone else ruined it already & the other I wanted to try something & it worked.
I wouldn't try to instal one anyway. It dont cost much & smiths need work too.

[LeverBar]

The best smith around was not able to come to the phone according to his wife. She seemed a bit concerned, stressed. I doubt that the smith did anything wrong. He's a good man. Maybe he called them because someone brought in a suspect/stolen gun? Only speculation.

So I called another smith. He will do the work.

I still have the itch to do it myself, but I don't know if I would recognize headspace problems prior to pulling the trigger.

[marlinman93]

The best smith around was not able to come to the phone according to his wife. She seemed a bit concerned, stressed. I doubt that the smith did anything wrong. He's a good man. Maybe he called them because someone brought in a suspect/stolen gun? Only speculation.

So I called another smith. He will do the work.

I still have the itch to do it myself, but I don't know if I would recognize headspace problems prior to pulling the trigger.

Might be that he does gunsmithing on the side, and does not have an FFL, which would make him nervous if he doesn't know you! All gunsmiths are required to have an FFL, so not good to advertise you're doing work on guns if you don't have one!
Could explain her nervous nature when they got a call from a stranger.

[LeverBar]

He's legal. I've known him for over ten years. He's worked on a few of my family's guns. Every gun shop in the area recommends him when customers ask about a smith. His business cards are distributed throughout the shops. He's in the yellow pages. He's a pro of longstanding. An expert, and a good fellow.

Likely a coincidence that my call, the police, the anxious wife--maybe she just didn't want a caller to know the police were there, and didn't know how to tell me he couldn't come to the phone? It was a bit odd, but we all blurt things out awkwardly once in a while.