OT 12 shot dead in England

[gamekeeper]

A 52 year old cabbie went on a 3 hour killing spree armed with a shotgun and a .22 rifle.

He shot dead 12 people and wounded about 11, before killing himself.

We now wait to see what the gun grabbers and politicians come up with in the way of even more hoops to jump through.

My condolences to his defenseless victims and their families.

[El Chivo]

Guns aren't the problem.

Ammo is the problem. Obviously what is needed are ammo restrictions. If he had only one shotgun shell per year to go hunting with, he wouldn't have had as many victims.

[Doc Hudson]

El Chivo,

Game Keeper is probably fainting at the thought that the Gun Nazis will come up with that idea.

GK,

Didn't that wacky cabbie use an illegally owned handgun to do the killings?

That means they will probably targer muzzle-loaders and bolt-action rifles since handguns are already pretty ell banned

[gamekeeper]

Doc, the only reports I have seen so far only mention a shotgun and .22 rifle, both legally held.

Deputy Chief Constable Stuart Hyde confirmed on Thursday morning that Mr Bird was a licensed gun holder, but declined to confirm the weapons were a shotgun and rifle.

[perry owens]

Apparently he had certificates for the guns but it remains to be seen if the certificate conditions were properly enforced.
Can't help wondering what the outcome might have been if concealed carry was legal here.
Perry Owens

[missionary5155]

Good morning
First my condolences to the families...
They should rise up and hold their politicians responsible for the insane disarming of the public in the face of a dangerous world we all inhabit. Parliment members are armed or protected by armed guards if my memeory still serves.

[Ysabel Kid]

Sorry to hear this. As noted, soon the vultures will flock to the scene, trying to exploit it to push for further restrictions on free people. It is just as consistent as death and taxes...

[gamekeeper]

The UK government has stated, there will be a debate on our Gun Laws when the police have finished their enquiries.

At least David Cameron our new Prime Minister is a shooting & hunting guy.
Still, I reckon we will have yet more restrictions on owning anything that goes bang, instead of being given the right and the means to defend ourselves.

In this case the police were unable to protect the pubic for 3 hours, I know the madman was in a fairly remote area and not in a city but 3 hours to tour around the countryside shooting folks is unacceptable. The police knew his name and the vehicle he was in but could not find or stop him. Now at great expense to the taxpayer 100 detectives are trying to find out what happened.

Again, my condolences to the victims and their families.

[gak]

Mental health, mental health, mental health. "We" keep missing this. People say (yet) that they saw no signs before...but it almost always turns out to be "something" someone(s) noticed that was a bit off. And THEN they put 2+2 together (and still somehow come up with 3 or 5!). And yet folks never say anything (in advance)--both the general public, LEOs and mental health "professionals," trying to be PC and not tromp on someone's rights that (ultimately) shouldn't have 'em in the first place. Another wack job doing irreparable damage--on many fronts.

[Blaine]

Mental health, mental health, mental health. "We" keep missing this. People say (yet) that they saw no signs before...but it almost always turns out to be "something" someone(s) noticed that was a bit off. And THEN they put 2+2 together (and still somehow come up with 3 or 5!). And yet folks never say anything (in advance)--both the general public, LEOs and mental health "professionals," trying to be PC and not tromp on someone's rights that (ultimately) shouldn't have 'em in the first place. Another wack job doing irreparable damage--on many fronts.

I could not disagree with you more. Pre-Judging a person? Establishing a Mental Health Loop to jump through before being allowed to exercise your God Given rights? The Gun Grabbers would have a field day with THAT set of guidelines

[gamekeeper]

Mental health, mental health, mental health. "We" keep missing this. People say (yet) that they saw no signs before...but it almost always turns out to be "something" someone(s) noticed that was a bit off. And THEN they put 2+2 together (and still somehow come up with 3 or 5!). And yet folks never say anything (in advance)--both the general public, LEOs and mental health "professionals," trying to be PC and not tromp on someone's rights that (ultimately) shouldn't have 'em in the first place. Another wack job doing irreparable damage--on many fronts.

I could not disagree with you more. Pre-Judging a person? Establishing a Mental Health Loop to jump through before being allowed to exercise your God Given rights? The Gun Grabbers would have a field day with THAT set of guidelines

Only today on the BBC radio a Firearms Expert said that if someone complains to the police that they think a gun owner is "behaving" a little strange the chief of police has the RIGHT to take away that that persons Gun Licence!!
I hate to think how many gun grabbers will use this to cause gun owners even more grief.

[Nath]

For some dumb *** reason Britain still has it's head in the dark ages when it comes to firearms. Britain is a very violent place now and the time is right for CC. Even today I had to explain what CC is and then was greeted with negativity, right upto the point I made that maybe less folk would be dead and besides why should we be sheep hoping today we don't get slaughtered!

Wake up stupid Britain.

I am sad for those innocent victims and families.

If someone was there that had the means to end it and had they would most probably be on a murder charge now!

Control freaks in their ivory towers call the shots here!

Nath.

[38 Special]

It is indeed a tragic event, devastating the lives of so many innocent people in just seconds. My heart goes out to them all.
The home secretary, Theresa May, today promised a review of Britain's gun laws following yesterday's shootings in Cumbria, but said it would be wrong to act before the full facts about Derrick Bird's killing spree were known.

David Cameron later backed up her comments, warning against any rash response, an approach endorsed too by Labour's former home secretary Alan Johnson. The prime minister and May plan to visit the area tomorrow to make sure the police, emergency and health services and local councils have all the support they need.

May told MPs: "Undoubtedly, yesterday's killings will prompt a debate about our country's gun laws. That is understandable – and indeed it is right and proper. But it would be wrong to react before we know the full facts. Today we must remember the innocent people who were taken from us as they went about their lives. Then, we must allow the police time to complete their investigations."

Cameron, speaking at a press conference in Downing Street, said: "The right thing to do is, of course, to look at all of these issues and have an open mind.

"But we should be clear that in this country we have some of the toughest gun control legislation anywhere in the world and we shouldn't make any kneejerk reaction to think that there is some instant legislative or regulatory answer."

The prime minister added: "Of course we have to do everything we can to stop these dreadful events, but you can't legislate to stop a switch flicking in someone's head and for this dreadful sort of action to take place."

Cumbria police confirmed that Bird – who went on the rampage in the UK's most deadly shooting incident since the Dunblane massacre – had been a licensed gun holder. May, in a statement to the House of Commons, said he had held a shotgun licence since 1995 and a firearms licence (for a .22 rifle) since 2007, adding that police had confirmed to her that his licences covered the firearms seized yesterday.

Twelve people were killed and eight remained in hospital today after the 52-year-old taxi driver went on the apparently indiscriminate shooting spree.

Bird shot dead his twin brother and at least one colleague before driving through rural west Cumbria firing seemingly at random at people in towns, villages and on country roads before killing himself.

More than 100 detectives are beginning to piece together the sequence of events and trying to establish his motive.

Eleven people were injured during the three-and-a-half hour incident, which paralysed the county as police, hunting the gunman on the ground and by air, ordered people to remain indoors.

Cumbria police said they may never completely uncover the reason for what they described as the "most exceptional and challenging incident" the small force had ever dealt with. The alarm was raised in the harbour town of Whitehaven at 10.30am. By then, it is believed, Bird's twin brother, David, and the family solicitor, Kevin Commons, were already dead. It ended only when the gunman's body was found in a copse outside the hamlet of Boot at 1.40pm.

All 12 people killed by Bird have been named locally, but the identity of only one has so far been officially confirmed by police – that of Commons, 60, who worked for KJ Common solicitors. A statement on Cumbria police's website this morning listed 19 locations where shots were fired by Bird, including 10 sites where people were killed, and the village where he was found dead. Detectives renewed their appeal for witnesses.

"We have now concluded a 150km land and air search of the known and possible routes [Bird] could have used and as a result we are not expecting to find any further victims."

Eight people who were injured remained in hospitals in Cumbria and Newcastle upon Tyne today – four were said to be in a stable condition and four described as comfortable.

There were unconfirmed reports that the gunman, from Rowrah, near Frizington, who was divorced with two sons and had recently become a grandfather, had argued with colleagues at the taxi rank the previous night.

One friend, Peter Leder, told CNN Bird had said to him: "You won't see me again."

According to one woman in Whitehaven, Bird "shook them [his colleagues] by the hands one by one and said, 'There's going to be a rampage in this town tomorrow and it's going to start with my mother' ... They just laughed and didn't take him seriously".

Others spoke of a reported family row over the will of Bird's seriously ill mother, involving Commons. Commons's home was last night cordoned off by police, and letters from his law firm were visible on a windowsill of Bird's home.

It is thought that after killing his brother and Commons, Bird headed to Whitehaven and shot a fellow taxi driver, named locally as Darren Rewcastle. Witnesses said Bird then drove through the town with a gun hanging out of his car window. Police released a map showing Bird's progress south to Egremont, Gosforth and Seascale, where the killings continued.

Bird's spree is the biggest mass shooting since Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and an adult at Dunblane primary school in March 1996, before killing himself.

[O.S.O.K.]

So what would the reaction be if he just used his cab to do his killing? He could have easily driven up onto a very busy sidewalk and mowed people down by the score. Would they be calling for mandatory 2' thick soft rubber bumpers on all cars - so as to make them less lethal? Or what other idiocy?

We have the same fools here, but thus far we've been able to keep them at bay.

[Nath]

So what would the reaction be if he just used his cab to do his killing? He could have easily driven up onto a very busy sidewalk and mowed people down by the score. Would they be calling for mandatory 2' thick soft rubber bumpers on all cars - so as to make them less lethal? Or what other idiocy?

We have the same fools here, but thus far we've been able to keep them at bay.

Seeing as his cab was used I wonder if they are going to toughen the cab licence laws

Nath.

[Buck Elliott]

Why do these nut-jobs always insist on taking so many others with them, when they "check out...?" Why not just say goodbye and leave...?

[Blaine]

Imagine if someone had a J Frame tucked safely away in his vest......

[olyinaz]

If they're nuts, and clearly this guy was, then they'll find a way to hurt people no matter what as a guy in China proved recently when he went on a rampage with an edged weapon and hacked a bunch of people to death. And gee, no one in Africa ever got harmed by a maniac with a sword or machete eh? Isn't Britain already the knife murder capitol of the world? Heaven forbid that sane, LAW ABIDING citizens should have the ability to defend themselves! MAN it gets my dander up...

This from the BBC: "Liberal Democrat MP John Pugh questioned how a 'simple taxi driver could possibly justify the apparently lawful possession of such a formidable and devastating arsenal' and how killings could be prevented in future." Formidable and devastating arsenal? [BARF] What an idiot! Liberal + Democrat are two words that make gun owners in the U.S. generally vomit as well (which, as a laborer, I really must say is sad).

My deepest condolences to the poor victim's families.

Regards,
Oly

[Griff]

AMy condolences to his defenseless victims and their families.

Amen.

[gak]

BlaineG wrote (about my mental health comment)
I could not disagree with you more. Pre-Judging a person? Establishing a Mental Health Loop to jump through before being allowed to exercise your God Given rights? The Gun Grabbers would have a field day with THAT set of guidelines

_________________
Not one place did I say take the guns away from anyone (or that we should know who has what). What I'm saying is, looking from the other end of the "problem" (than the gun)--for once--start paying attention to the nut jobs around us and the signs we find out all too late were often there. I don't claim to know what you do with that info once you have it (I'd agree you have to be very careful, and there's a very fine line, and that once you..., etc,), but there's one heck of a lot of "he/she seemed depressed and withdrawn, but I thought that was just_____" after these tragedies, ...no one--family, friends, colleagues, MH types--thought to take to another level. There's a lot of instability out there nowadays, enhanced further by current social/economic conditions. Watch yer backsides everyone!

Btw. agree with your (BlaineG) "J-frame" comment.

[Joel]

I hope there are no copy-cats in the coming days. Seems to be how it goes; A guy loses his marbles, goes on a spree, media makes the killer famous, some other nutter follows the same path to fame.

We just saw this in China with hammer/knife attacks at schools.

[kimwcook]

I feel so sorry for the victim's families. The question why their loved ones had to pay the price for someone else's problems will never be answered.

[AJMD429]

If they're nuts, and clearly this guy was, then they'll find a way to hurt people no matter what as a guy in China proved recently when he went on a rampage with an edged weapon and hacked a bunch of people to death. And gee, no one in Africa ever got harmed by a maniac with a sword or machete eh? Isn't Britain already the knife murder capitol of the world? Heaven forbid that sane, LAW ABIDING citizens should have the ability to defend themselves! MAN it gets my dander up...

Yep. The murderous, the reckless, and the psychotic will be there to cause problems regardless of the laws ordinary people will (to their detriment) obey.

This from the BBC: "Liberal Democrat MP John Pugh questioned how a 'simple taxi driver could possibly justify the apparently lawful possession of such a formidable and devastating arsenal' and how killings could be prevented in future." Formidable and devastating arsenal? [BARF] What an idiot!

One of the reasons we started the American Revolutionary War against that nation was the fact that WE felt that citizens had an inalienable right to (among others) 'keep and bear arms' - and in fact that the government and its employees were the ones who needed to ask permission from the citizens as to what firearms were appropriate for police and military to possess, and under what conditions they would be allowed to use them - NOT the other way around.

Why do these nut-jobs always insist on taking so many others with them, when they "check out...?" Why not just say goodbye and leave...?

Yep - they do their shooting in the wrong order - they should start with their own sick and twisted self first.

For some dumb *** reason Britain still has it's head in the dark ages when it comes to firearms. Britain is a very violent place now and the time is right for CC. Even today I had to explain what CC is and then was greeted with negativity. . .
Control freaks in their ivory towers call the shots here!

Yep - we have two 'mainstream' political parties full of 'control freaks' on this side of the pond, too, with about the same results...the Democrats happen to be worse on the 'gun' issue, but it was largely the Republicans 'drug war' that got it started.

Pre-Judging a person? Establishing a Mental Health Loop to jump through before being allowed to exercise your God Given rights? The Gun Grabbers would have a field day with THAT set of guidelines.

Yep. It is FAR more dangerous to enact such genocide-enabling laws than the status quo, as bad as that is. Ironic how the liberals who protest 'profiling' love to profile 'gun owners'. I do agree we should 'police our own' and anyone acting depressed/suicidal/weird needs help, but involving the government in providing that help is just too dangerous, and potentially counterproductive to a safe and stable society.

Only today on the BBC radio a Firearms Expert said that if someone complains to the police that they think a gun owner is "behaving" a little strange the chief of police has the RIGHT to take away that that persons Gun Licence!!
I hate to think how many gun grabbers will use this to cause gun owners even more grief.

Yep... Even our well-intentioned 'child protective services' may in the long run do more damage than good, endangering more children than they protect, in the long run, for similar reasons. Sad, but true.

They should rise up and hold their politicians responsible for the insane disarming of the public in the face of a dangerous world we all inhabit. Parliment members are armed or protected by armed guards if my memeory still serves.

Yes - the POLITICIANS who pass 'gun control' laws want to take credit for 'if but one life is saved', so they need to be held accountable when crime rates skyrocket, due to their haste to gain photo-ops signing useless, symbolic, and counterproductive 'gun' legislation.

Imagine if someone had a J Frame tucked safely away in his vest......

As usual, BlaineG sums it up succinctly.

When such things DO happen, they become much less spectacular (the perp kills one or two vs. twenty, and is then killed by the CCW citizen), so it is less newsworthy (less blood), and politically incorrect (doesn't show need for more government), so the story barely is reported.

Speaking of 'politically correct' I know it is expected to add 'my condolences to the family', and I hope that is a given, however I stand ready and resolved to retract any and all 'condolences' to loved ones who (even if they are merely duped into becoming pawns for the gun control lobby) abuse the memories of their own lost family to campaign for 'tougher gun laws'.

[piller]

The sad fact is that tragedies like this one are just the weapon that most politicians are salivating for. Once they get a handle on a tragedy, they try to gain more control of the populace. I feel sorry for the victims of the murderer, and their families.

[Lawyer Daggit]

It is sad news- and I feel for the families.

Society has to realise that you cannot stop all incidents in which people kill people. As the bumper sticker says- 'S#@T happens'.

I understand that the anti's are now seeking to use this as reason to ban guns- but then of course one would just see someone running people over or blowing them up.

[Lawyer Daggit]

It is sad news- and I feel for the families.

Society has to realise that you cannot stop all incidents in which people kill people. As the bumper sticker says- 'S#@T happens'.

I understand that the anti's are now seeking to use this as reason to ban guns- but then of course one would just see someone running people over or blowing them up.