Any practical reason to get a .44 WCF?

[Kid Cossack]

Gents:

As I'm reginning my enthusiasm for Westerns, I find myself looking through various auction sites at '92 clones. In the past, I've mostly been a Marlin man, probably out of pure cussedness (which is probably why I prefer Colt double action sixguns, too, come to think of it). I've got Marlins in .357, .30 WCF and .45-70 . . . and no Winchesters or Winchester clones. But I'm thinking about starting to plan on looking for a '92 to buy. Is that sufficiently nebulous and long term?

Anyway, I was wondering about what caliber to buy. And as I was wondering, I noticed that there are still some .44 WCF '92 clones around. In the past, I've dismissed the .44-40 as "great for its time but out of date today."

I figured, however, that you guys would know a lot more about it than I do, so here's the question: Is there any practical reason to get a .44-40? I can think of impractical reasons---history and tradition. But is there a practical reason to get one? Oh, and "history and tradition" DO count as reasons in my book, just not practical ones.

Many thanks in advance.

[Beaker]

How about because u want one?

[jnyork]

I have a Navy Arms 1873 replica, 24" barrel, I have probably 4-5 thousands rounds thru it at metallic silhouette.

I win some matches, it's fun to shoot. Practical enough?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

The #1 reason to buy a 44-40 levergun is it is the best of the big bore if you plan to use it for black powder loads. Winchester's 44WCF ammo was virtually non existent until about the mid 1980's. About the only place you would find the ammo was with specialty ammo outlets. But, since the mid 80's and the start of Cowboy Action shooting boom it has made a remarkable recovery. Particularly with those folks that shoot in the black powder categories.
This is generally because the more modern calibers don't lend themselves well to BP loads. BP is a low pressure propellant that doesn't obturate or expand the modern calibers cartridge case to seal the chamber, particularly the 45lc rifles. What happens is you get lots of fouling blow by in the the action. ( know of some folks that have 45's that actually use 44WCF brass blown out to 45 so they can use BP) The 44WCF brass is much thinner than modern so it seals better. Also, the thin 44WCF creates other problems if you plan to load it with smokeless powder. The thin brass can be hard to get a consistent crimp and this sometimes allows the bullets to push back into the case jamming a levergun. This is not a problem with BP because the compressed load of powder supports the bullet.

For leverguns it does have another advantage. It's a bottle neck cartridge and bottlenecks always feed better than straight walls.

If 44 cal is the choice but you don't plan to reload, and if power is important the 44mag levergun would be a better choice.

BTW, I owe a lot to 44WCF.
This is from my website,

The Rossi work started about 12 (18 now) years ago. If you were into CAS just about everyone had a Rossi 92 and a few people had the 44-40 Rossi 92`s. Back then, 44-40 brass was hard to find. You had to buy new 44-40 ammo, as much as $35 a box and save the brass for reloading. The Rossi 92`s were so stiff and the 44-40 brass being thin walled, they would crush the case mouth destroying the brass. I figured out how to make them work without ruining the brass. A properly tuned 92 does not have this problem.

[Kid Cossack]

Beaker:

Wanting one is enough reason to get one . . . but not necessarily a practical reason! (There's lots of stuff I want that isn't exactly practical.)

jnyork:

Winning matches isn't a practical reason! Unless it would give me a leg up over (say) a .357 version.

Nate:

That's the best explanation I've heard so far, and I think that qualifies as an eminently practical reason. Although, of course, I don't have hardly any experience with the "holy black."

Thanks, guys.

[J Miller]

Kid,

Besides everything else the others have said, you could look for a Marlin 1894 in 44-40 and round out your Marlin collection. That would be a neat thing.

Joe

[gak]

Other than the BP use Nate discusses, not that I can think of - in a 92 action. I owned several early Rossi .44-40s, and they were dandy--still have fond reminisince. I did not reload for them, but at the time ammo including commercial reloads was cheap enough (but, ironically, harder to find than now...what with CAS'ers bringing it back to the fore). I was definitely the odd one and wondering why; now they're all over the place--relatively speaking. Over time I transitioned to .44 Mag and never looked back. Again, practically speaking. As you and others have mentioned, nostalgia yes and a sweet shooter. Humor also, with "standard" loads, hearing the "boom" one thousand one "thwap" will put a smile on your face. With a 20" carbine, point of aim to 100, then drops like a rock. Speaking of "practical," don't get me wrong, I don't want to stand out there at 101, and many good and bad guys fell to the .44WCF--as well as a lot of meat put on the table. But these days, it's the .44 Mag (in combo with .44 Special)-- or .45LC if that's the preference--that's the way to go, IMO,... practically speaking, that is!

[Doc Hudson]

Kid,

I've known you for almost 15 years. I've never known you to be the slave of practicality.

Practically speaking, and strictly in modern terms, there isn't a darned thing the .44 WCF can do in a sixgun that a .44 S&W Spl can't do as well, and in carbines or rifles, there is nothing that a .44 RemMag can't do better.

On the reloading side, the .44 WCF can be loaded to very near .44 RemMag power, but that won't work for SASS use, and it is tough on the brass and older rifles. IMO, any excuse for hot-rodding the .44 WCF died the day the first .44 RemMag carbine was produced. Additionally the .44 WCF has a bottle-necked case which requires lubrication before resizing. With a .44 RemMag you can use carbide dies and avoid the hassle of lube dents and cleaning the cases after sizing.

Were I riding the range in 1880, I'd have wanted a Colt and Winchester chambered in .44 WCF. These days I'd rather have them in .44 RemMag for such strictly practical use.

I have an idea that your thinking is turned toward use in SASS competition. Since you are notoriously unfettered by practicality, let me throw yet another idea into the cauldron.

Consider a brace of revolvers and a carbine in .38-40 WCF, or if you'd prefer you can think of it as a .40 S&W Rimmed. Lots of old-timers thought the .38 WCF hit harder and killed better than the .45 Long Colt. I know at least one fellow over in the Delta who still hunts with his great-grandpa's .38-40 Winchester rifle, and he makes meat every year.

But if you get right down to it, wanting a .44-40 WCF rifle is plenty practical enough reason to buy one.

[Griff]

Because std weight bullets are heavier than the .38-40.

And, at longer silhouette ranges, yes, the 205 grain .44-40 bullet will retain more KE than either the 180 grain .38-40 or the 158 grain .357; therotically yielding more KDs per questionable hit than the lighter bullets.

Lastly, it IS a historically correct chambering from the 1892's introduction.

[Pete44ru]

[Is there any practical reason to get a .44-40? ]

Yep - You can peeve those that wanted one, but never got off the pot.

.

[Boreman]

I have a 20" oct. bbl SS Rossi M-92 in 44-40 that is extremely accurate and just an absolute ball to shoot. It shoots jacketed and cast bullets equally well. The bbl sluggs at .429 which allow's one to shoot 44 mag sizes bullets if you reload. This rifle along with my Ruger Vaquero's makes for one of the best fun combos ever. Something to consider. The rest of the comments by the forum members are right on. I don't think you would go wrong with a 44-40.

[piller]

If all of the posts above aren't enough to give you the boost to get one, then just think of how hard you will kick yourself in a few years when you think of what you have missed.

[rodeo kid]

Since when does practical matter? I don't drink, smoke, gamble or do dope, so guns are my vice. I look, I see, I want, I buy. Enough said!

[TedH]

Just the "cool factor" is enough reason. Heck, now after reading all these other guys posts, I want one!

[willygene]

i just got a uberti 1873 in 44-40 i love it .

[Roland]

I wouldn't if it's a 92, if it was a '73 though I would be sorely tempted...

[Malamute]

I think the 44 WCF ranks high on the cool factor, but I stayed with the 44 mag in the 92. Mine's a Browning. I shoot a 200 gr RN flat point bullet of the same style the 44 WCF came with, at about 1300 fps. It even looks like a 44 WCF round, but I have the option of going up in power easily when I want. I'm also long on 44 mag sixguns and brass, and have none in 44 WCF. The 44 WCF level loads are good for small game, as they don't tear them up, and are very mild to shoot.

I agree with those that say, if you want one, get one. That's enough reason. If you want to consider "practical", you may want to look at other choices. None are bad options though.

[Kid Cossack]

Good answers, guys! I guess it would be a whole other can of worms to ask if there's any practical reason to get a '73, so I'll hold off on that one for a while.

And, yes, Doc, out of pure-dee cussedness, I'd get a .38-40 in a heartbeat, but they seem to be mighty thin on the ground.

[20cows]

I guess it would be a whole other can of worms to ask if there's any practical reason to get a '73, so I'll hold off on that one for a while.

That'd be pretty much a matched "set" (a '73 and the 44WCF)!

[hondo1892]

If your talking practical. Why do you own a .357, 30 WCF, and 45-70 in lever guns? The bolt actions of today are stronger and more practical. They (bolt guns) are chambered in more practical calibers. I want a 99 Savage in .300 is it practical, not really. I could get a bolt gun in .308 and be more practical. As far as that goes I need another gun I need a hole in my haed. Get what you want because in the end you really don't need another gun if you want to be practical.

[Malamute]

I would disagree that levers arent practical. Often they are "enough" in terms of range or power for the job at hand, especially as a carry gun. I do like scoped bolt guns for making meat, but I like levers for daily carry and utility, as they simply are generally easier to carry, and enough for what I'm doing at the time. Self loaders are about as "unhandy" as anything I've ever seen, if we're talking the differences in various actions and guns.

[Tumbleweeds II]

Kid, you need to look at www.dixiegunworks.com. They don't have model '92s, but they have '73s, '66s, and Henrys in several calibers, including .38-40. In .44-40 you can get a Bisley, a S&W "Schofield", an SAA, and maybe a Remington '75 or '90. AND a Lightning slide action rifle as well as the '73 and older lever guns.

In fact, a man with your handle would do well with a pair of S&W .44 Russian revolvers and a Spencer in the same caliber. Add a hammer double with BP cartridges, and peeve EVERYBODY off (at least everybody who stands downwind).

Practical? And what the heck has "practical" to do with CAS? Practical involves .22 rifles and squirrels.

[Kid Cossack]

If your talking practical. Why do you own a .357, 30 WCF, and 45-70 in lever guns? The bolt actions of today are stronger and more practical. They (bolt guns) are chambered in more practical calibers. I want a 99 Savage in .300 is it practical, not really. I could get a bolt gun in .308 and be more practical. As far as that goes I need another gun I need a hole in my haed. Get what you want because in the end you really don't need another gun if you want to be practical.

Fair enough question, Hondo!

For me, I suppose the .357 is the most practical of the lever guns, with the .30-30 running a close second. The small amount of hunting I've done has been in the Texas Hill Country, which is a fairly close range proposition, and I'm convinced that the .357 and .30-30 have plenty of reach and punch at those ranges. I simply don't need a 300-400 yard rifle for that kind of hunting (although my buddy has and uses one rifle and one rifle only, a Model 70 carbine in .270).

The .357 is my go-to home defense carbine, filling the role that others use a .223 black rifle, or a .30 carbine, for. It's light, handy, inoffensive in looks, easy to reload for, and easy to buy factory ammunition for. It does not kick much, and my wife likes it and shoots it better than any other rifle. It can be topped up easily without much fuss and without taking it out of action. It does not have a detachable magazine to be lost, and at the same time I feel a special affinity for lever action rifles that I simply don't feel for most bolt actions.

Please don't take this as a slam on bolt action rifles! They are stronger and can chamber cartridges with much better range. My personal favorite among the bolt actions is the Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55mm, and I've still got two of them: one a full on 29" barreled infantry rifle, and the other a cut down quasi-Scout rifle with an 18" barrel and a Burris scout scope.

I'm not entirely ruled by practicality; romance and history and comfort-level have a large role to play in firearms selection as well. That's probably why my carry gun is a Colt Cobra and not a Glock 26.

Hope this helps to explain!

[hondo1892]

I'm not slamin' lever guns guys. I only have three long guns that shoot cartridges that aren't levers. A 10/22 and a couple of bolt .22 RF's. I love lever's and muzzleloaders. Ihave more muzzleloaders than I know what to do with and none are inlines. Mostly flinters and my lever guns are old or obsolete calibers. Yes they get the job done but they are neither as accurate as a tuned bolt or as strong. I have owned bolt guns but I shoot left haned and its hard to find a bolt gun in left with more than a couple of calibers they are chambered for. That may be why I like levers so well they are either handed. Didn't mean to stir the pot just putting in my two cents.

[Doc Hudson]

Add a hammer double with BP cartridges, and peeve EVERYBODY off (at least everybody who stands downwind).

HE COULDN'T PEEVE ME!!!

Blackpowder smoke is perfume to my nose!!

[Doc Hudson]

Hondo and Kid Cossack!

Just a couple of rancid old left-handed parallelograms!

The Kid is wrong-handed to Hondo.

[Leverdude]

Kid,

Besides everything else the others have said, you could look for a Marlin 1894 in 44-40 and round out your Marlin collection. That would be a neat thing.

Joe

+1, they used Marlins in the old west too. In a modern action, Marlin or Winchester the 44/40 isn't a slouch at all.

[KWK]

Why a .44-40? The modest recoil and muzzle blast alone make it a decent choice for those that don't handload. Handloaders will do about as well or better with the .44 Mag--other than the BP option.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have to agree with my pard Nate. For shooting Black Powder, 44-40 really shines because of the thinness of the brass at the casemouth. Expands to seal the chamber much better than 45 Colt. I shoot nothing but 44-40 with Black Powder in my CAS rifles, and they never bind up from fouling blowby.

The first rifle I ever shot in CAS was a 100 year old Marlin Model 1894 chambered for 44-40 that I had bought in the 1970s more or less as a lark. Still have that old rifle and still occasionally put some rounds through it. Next was a 100 year old Winchester Model 1892. The real thing, not a clone. Chambered for 44-40 of course, nobody was chambering rifles for 45 Colt in those days. When the Black Powder bug bit me hard I bought a nice used Uberti Model 1873, in 44-40 of course. The nice shiny bore was easier to clean up than the pitted old bores of the old rifles. These days my main match rifle is an Uberti 1860 Henry. Still in 44-40 of course.

Ya just can't praise the 44-40 highly enough.

HOWEVER................stay away from those 44 Mag loads in a toggle link rifle like a '66, '73, or Henry. They will not take the pressure, they should never be fired with anything more powerful than standard SAAMI spec loads. The Winchester Model 1892 design and the Marlin Model 1894 design are much stronger and can take higher pressures, although I don't think I would venture into the 44 Mag pressure range.

[Arminius]

Since when does practical matter? I don't drink, smoke, gamble or do dope, so guns are my vice. I look, I see, I want, I buy. Enough said!

Oh GOD!

May I help you? WE help you?

I mean, one ( = I ) simply CAN´T have all Vices, but dear fellow, how may we help you out of your Agony??



NO vice is NOT an answer!



Hermann

[Buck Elliott]

"Practical reason...?" Maybe -- maybe not -- but GET ONE if you want it.

Then you'll never be sorry that you didn't.

[O.S.O.K.]

The practical gun owner will own maybe two handguns (one .22LR and one centerfire), one rifle with several barrels like 25-06, 30-06 and 35 Whelen and one shotgun in 12 guage with several barrels for it. Done. Practical collection.

This will vary but that's an example of a practical collection.

No room for any really interesting cartridges.