405 Winchester loading... sources for data, recommendations?

[O.S.O.K.]

OK, I have 5 manuals and a bunch of the free propellant load booklets - none, not one has data for the 405 Winchester.

So, I go online and look - Hodgedon has data - for their propellants - which is a start as I have some Varget and it looks to be a good un for the 405.

I also found exactly one load listed on handloads.com - 63 grains of W748 under a 300 gr Hornady bullet for 2205 fps - MAX load. Can anybody verify this load? I have a copious quantity of W748 as I like it.

Any other source recommendations (other than popping for a new load book) would be appreciated.

Also, how about cast boolits for the 405? I know I've seen reference to that here but I can't find it with a search.

What molds/designs have you 405 guys used with sucess that you can recommend?



ETA: This is for my newly acquired Win 95.

[Don McDowell]

Lyman's 48th has 405 data in it. Hornady has data, and if you ask Accurate they will send you their data.You can also subscribe to www.loaddata.com and find a plethora of 405 data.

Most any powder from 4895-4064 speeds work the best, my favorite in accuracy and velocity is the out of production rl 12, rl 15 is a good replacement, and as your varget is in the same family it should work well. 4320 is also reputed to be a good powder.
If your hunting with the thing, the bullets of choice should probably be the Barnes or the Northfork. Unless Hornady has stiffened up the jackets on theirs since 02, they're to frangible to be of much use.
Cast bullets get 5744.
The lyman 412263 bullet is always a good choice, and now Buffalo Arms has 413 300 gr gascheck mould that works extremely well. The rcbs 416 bullet also shoots well when properly sized.

[O.S.O.K.]

Thank you Don.

[.45]

May be something here you can use.


http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=84

[O.S.O.K.]

Thank you - yes, I believe I can use some of those loads

And interestingly, the Hodgedon data lists 400 grain Woodleigh RNSN data - looks like 1900+ is reached with Varget or H4895. Interesting. That's a significanly higher SD bullet with the same energy as the 300 grainers.

Not that I need that right now but if I was going after grizzly, I'd look at that bullet - in addition to the Barnes X and Northfork of course. Hawk also makes excellent bullets and you can specify the jacket thickness.

Also of interest to me is that the 405 Win operates at a rather sedate 44K PSI give or take level. I think this is why the brass lasts so well, along with the rimmed design of course.

Cool caliber.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think I will get a Lee sizer die - .410" and open it up to .413" for sizing the cast boolits.

I see the Lyman 288 grain boolit.

I also see a .417" gas check 350 grain boolit RCBS - anybody try that? Its a rnfp type -



I'd have to size it down .004" which is quite a lot...

[Don McDowell]

Yes as I said the rcbs bullet works pretty good. But the BACO bullet shoots better and drops exactly .413 when cast from #2.
Lots of luck getting Lee to hit that .413 mark . Might do alright if you have it done locally.

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks again Don - I decided to get the RCBS 350 grain boolit mold after reading two positive feedbacks on Midway (and your comments too!) - they both use it for 405 Win. Apparently, it's a bore-riding type design and the nose is .410" which should be perfect. I'll use No.2 alloy for sure.

I resize my own Lee dies - I simply use a brush with a patch and some lapping compound on it chucked into my cordless drill to enlarge the die. I've done this with .430 to .431" already. I figure I can go a bit further and get to .413" in the .410" die... I hope

I think that boolit at 2000-2200 fps will be a great hunting boolit if I can get it shooting well.

I have a real bias towards (pro) flat nosed designs.

[Don McDowell]

I don't think you'll get that bullet to 2000 fps without using an alloy that's entirely to hard for hunting.
As far as a hunting bullet if you cast that bullet from 20-1 and get the velocity trotting around 1700 there isn't anything on this continent that will walk away unharmed. Somewhere in that velocity range is where the best accuracy is going to come from with cast bullets as well.
Treat that 405 right and it'll be one of the most accurate and fun to shoot rifles you'll ever get ahold of.

[O.S.O.K.]

Oh, I routinely get wheel weight and tin, gas checked boolits to 1950-2000 fps. I use Lee Liquid Alox lube and these are air cooled.

I've read where others push them to 2200 fps with harder alloys - linotype or just water quenched ww with some tin.

Regardless, these should through and through any game animal from just about any angle.

[Don McDowell]

What rifle are you shooting?

[Thunder50]

You can also try stevespages.com for data

[Don McDowell]

Unless he's got something on there that he got for hisself all of the 405 data is plagerized from other sources.

[O.S.O.K.]

Don, if you're talking about the other rifles that I shoot cast in, the 95 in 30 US - Lyman 210 gas check, Enfields with a Lyman 200 grain gas check, several 30-30's with 170 grain Laser cast with a gas check.

[Don McDowell]

No I was asking which 405 you have.

[O.S.O.K.]

OIC

You missed the other thread - which is easy because there's nothing about a 405 in the post title: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=27109

Recent vintage Winchester Jap 95. Shotgun butt, standard grade. LNIB with no box

[Don McDowell]

Yep missed that thread.
Unless limbsaver has revamped their recoil pads, the one that will come closest to being a good fit on that rifle is the 11012 or some such can't remember now, but it's the one for Remington 700's. Makes it a much more friendly beast to be around.

[crs]

+1 for the Limbsaver on the .405.

In my experience, the factory Hornady is fine for hog and deer sized game an for larger such as elk if you hit them in the ribs broadside. I think that you saw what mine did to my hog back in February, did you not? That was a Hornady JFP.
However, the premium bullets are recommended for larger tougher critters such as Nilgai and water or cape buffalo.
The latter have been killed with .405 using 300 grain cast bullets (not by me) but I have used 300 grain Northfork CPS at 2250 fps on water buffalo (1500 pounds) with good results and would use them or 400 gr Woodleighs on cape buffalo.

As Kansas Ed says, most critters he hits with his1895 .405 just fall over.
Have fun with yours.

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks, I intend to

I'm hoping to take it to the range this Sunday. I keep reading how much this recoils. It doesn't seem like it would kick that hard - the rifle isn't exactly light weight, its a larger bore that operates at a pretty sedate 44K PSI.... I guess I'll find out! I'm going to give it a try sans recoil pad to start with and put the uggly rubber one on if it proves as bad for me as you guys say If it kicks like a hot loaded 45-70 in a Marlin 95, then it'll get the pad

Tomorrow is going to busy with helping the kids with all kinds of stuff in College Station.

My daughter is graduating, as is her fiance. They are moving to Iowa, he's starting a new job and she's going into her grad work and ... they're getting married July 3. So they're doing just about all of the most stressful stuff - all at the same time.

I just hope they make it through without a break-down!

My middle child - Logan is there too - and we need to help him with things too.

[muskeg13]

I've gotten the RCBS 350 to 2230 fps in my Miroku M1895 without leading. This gave just over 2" at 100 yds, using air cooled ww (w/tin) sized to .413 and Reloader 7. My boolits run 363 gr before lube and gas checks and are rather soft. They register a 7 on the Saeco hardness scale, about the same as 1/20. Initially, there was a very slight flash of leading at the muzzle using my home brewed alox alone. All leading went away after coating the bullets with Lee's liquid alox after normal lubing and sizing, so I'm double lubing.

[jnyork]

Dont know how many are aware of LoadData.com. Online loading data for every load ever devised for every cartridge imaginable. $30.00 per year, less than the price of one loading manual, well worth the cost, IMHO.

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks Muskeg and jnyork, I subscribed to that site but then let it drop - thought I'd gotten all the data I needed....