Reloading for .44 - 40 REPLICAS

[Arminius]

Dear LA and SA fans!

I own an original SAA from the 70´s in .45, 4 3/4".

An Winchester 94 "Cheyenne Carbine" in .44-40. LOTS of other nice things ...

But I own more than one Replica in .44-40:

Henry 24" rifle "One in One Thousand"

Remington 1875 "Outlaw" w 7 1/2" bbl

and I intend to add MORE:

a Colt ( Pedersoli? ) Lightning 20" rd bbl

a Rossi 16" Large Loop LA

a 1873 Win Copy, either a 24" rifle or a 20" short rifle ( preferred )

... ( another SAA, this time a replica, with 5 1/2"? )

My question:

I´ll start to reload for the .44-40. Have dies and CL gauge in house already.

Until now I reloaded for: .357, 9 mm, .30-06, .222, .44 Mag, .45 ACP,.45-70 ( Browning 86 Carbine )

WHICH BULLET should I start to use for a "Hunting" or "HiPerformance" load in .44-40???

( No problems with Magtech Cowboy loads, will load something similar for fun, too ). ( that´s where the cases come from )

~ 200 grs, but either a hard cast lead ( lots of RIFLES! ) or JSP bullet? A hard cast "Cowboy Load" bullet drilled with a nice HP? ( Forster bullet Hollow pointer, with custom bigger drills? )

Diameter? Uberti recommends .429 for Lead ...

Unique or N 340 or 2400 for those loads, 231 or VV N 320 later for plinking loads ...

PLEASE share your exeriences and tips!

What BULLET, what DIES, what loads?

Thanks in advance and Greetings from Austria, Hermann

[Terry Murbach]

I HAVE USED CAST LFN .428" BULLETS WEIGHING 200, 215, 225, AND 240grs IN ALL MY 44-40 GUNS INCLUDING COLTS[3], S&W's[2], UBERTI SAA's[3], AND UBERTI 1873 WINCHESTER REPLICAS[1]. EVERY GUN TO THE LAST MANJACK OF 'EM SHOT GREAT WITH ALL FOUR BULLET WEIGHTS USING ONE[1] POWDER CHARGE OF UNIQUE OR UNIVERSAL POWDER THAT I DEVELOPED ORIGINALLY FOR A UBERTI 7 1/2" SAA AFTER A HECK OF A LOT OF TESTING. WITH THIS SINGULAR LOAD VELOCITIES RANGED FROM 950fps TO 1250fps DEPENDING ON THE CHAMBER DIMENSIONS AND BARREL LENGHTHS OF THE GUN BEING TESTED.
DIES WERE RCBS STANDARD, RCBS COWBOY DIES[EXCELLENT], OR REDDING HUNTER DIES[GOOD STUFF], AND THE LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE[MANDATORY IMNHO].
DRILLING CAST BULLETS FOR A HP IS A WASTE OF TIME !!!!
THE JACKETED 44-40 BULLETS ARE NEARLY A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY TOO.
YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY.
AND SO IT GOES...

[jnyork]

My Uberti rifle needs .431 bullets to get accuracy. I use the Lasercast 180 grainers with 10 grains of Blue Dot, which gives me far better accuracy than any other powder I have tried.

[Arminius]

So there is no trouble with cast bullets in .44-40 rifles and carbines?

I suppose a good load would be around 8,5 grs Unique?

( I´ll work up to this load )

And with a wide meplat like the Cowboy action bullets it should do for medium game ( Roe Deer, dressed max 25 kg )?

I really thought that some cast bullets with a drilled HP and slightly more powder charge should be EASY to make?

For plinking and paper work I happily stick with Cowboy, swaged bullets, especially in the shorter barrels.

Thanks, Hermann

[J Miller]

Hermann,

FYI, The cowboy action bullets or RNFPs are actually copies of the original 44WCF (44-40) and 38WCF (38-40) factory bullets as loaded by everyone back in the 1870s on up to today.
That design of bullet has been taking game animals since 1873 so there's no doubt it will work on your Roe Deer if you do your part.

The Colt SAA and copies, and toggle link rifle actions don't lend themselves to high performance 44-40 loads though. If you want to increase the velocity to the old "Express" loadings you'd be better off buying a Win 92 or one of the copies and a Ruger BH.

Joe

[Arminius]

Thanks about the Warning.

No, I do NOT want to hotrod the .44-40, I want the MAX the Toggle link actions will take safely ( Henry - 66 - 73 ).

I have an OLD Lyman manual which lists hotter loads for 92´s, but the 73 loads are no weaklings, either, compared to modern manuals ...

But the 8,5 grs Uni seem to be ok with modern manuals, too?

Hermann

[Terry Murbach]

Thanks about the Warning.

No, I do NOT want to hotrod the .44-40, I want the MAX the Toggle link actions will take safely ( Henry - 66 - 73 ).

I have an OLD Lyman manual which lists hotter loads for 92´s, but the 73 loads are no weaklings, either, compared to modern manuals ...

But the 8,5 grs Uni seem to be ok with modern manuals, too?

Hermann

YEP !!!

[w30wcf]

LOADS-
Alliant shows a maximum of 8.0 / Unique under a 200 gr. bullet in the .44-40.
They show a velocity of 1,090 f.p.s. in a 24" barrel giving 12,400 CUP
A 200 JSP bullet was used so velocity with a 200 gr cast bullet would be probably around 1,150 f.p.s.

For replicating original .44-40 ballistics at safe pressures in the '73 with the powders you have, 2400 is it.
It is close to the burning rate of the original .44-40 smokeless powders (DuPont No. 2 & Sharpshooter).

Alliant data - 14.5 grs./1,230/12,500 CUP with the 200 JSP bullet. Again, velocities with the 200 gr. cast bullet
would be about 50-60 f.p.s. greater in my experiance.

For a plinking load, I personally like TiteGroup. 5-6 grs. gives excellent accuracy.
231 and Unique in the 6 gr. range would work as well.

Regarding the 240 gr. cast bullet, Alliant recommends either 2400 or RL7
2400 - 12.0 / 1,130 /12,500 CUP
RL7 - 23.5 / 1,290 /12,100 CUP

I personally have used the 23.5/RL7/240 cast and it shoots very well.

BULLETS:
--Cast: I like the Magma 200 grn and the RCBS 200 gr. the best. Lyman offers a 200 gr (429666) which also works well but doesn't seem to be as accuracte as the Magma and RCBS....at least in my rifles. 240 gr. Magma design - I buy these since I don't use nearly as much as the 200 gr.
--Jacketed: .429" Speer 200 gr H.P. - it's the only one that I know of that will not exceed the o.a.l. of the .44-40 in the '73 with the exception of the Winchester and Remington 200 gr. JSP, but those are smaller at .426/.427" diameter.
The 200 gr. Hornady XTP (.430") will work but only if the cases are shortened a little and if they will chamber with a .430" diameter bullet.

DIES:
Lyman: I prefer because of their excellent "M" expanding die.
RCBS: Works well but I like the expanding die of the Lyman better
Lee: no experience with the exception of their FCD (Factory Crimp Die) which works great.
Hornady: no experience
Redding: no experience

Have fun,
w30wcf

[Arminius]

THANKS A LOT!!

The 2400 tips, as well as that .429 Speer HP bullet - GREAT!

Many thanks, Hermann