OT - Jaguar in Arizona

[soon 2 retire]

I hadn't read this before but a jaguar was captured in Arizona in Feb. 2009; It was released but had to be euthanized two weeks later due to health problems. According to an article today in MSNBC an employee of Arizona F & G was fired over the incident.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35957837/ns/us_news/

Bob in NE Indiana

[kimwcook]

We've discussed Jaguars in the U.S.A. before because Mescalero thought he might have some around his place.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave....

[bdhold]

they're not going to range that far without a potential mate...

[buckeyeshooter]

I saw trail cam photos a year or two ago on Jaguar back in the southwest. I would love it if it got to the point of a huntable population---- without the drama and 'greenie' problems associated with the wolf reintroduction.

[76/444]

When I tell folks I have seen one, where I pack,... they always look at me like I am spinning a yarn.

[Mike D.]

I couldn't locate the article on the site.

[66GTO]

I couldn't locate the article on the site.

Not the same link, but: http://www.azstarnet.com/news/science/e ... 43779.html

[soon 2 retire]

Sorry,

They moved the article off the front page. I found it again but I don't know if linking would be successful. What I did was go to the opening page of www.msnbc.msn.com. Scroll down a few lines and there will be a list called "Categories" on the left side. Choose U.S. News. A window will open and there will be "Latest Headlines" on the left and "Topics" on the right. Under "Topics" choose "Environment". Another window will open and the jaguar story will be one of the choices.

Kind of convoluted; I hope it works for you.

bob in NE Indiana

[bigbore442001]

I was thinking about this post yesterday and recalling what I have heard others say on a similar topic. I suspect there are more jaguars in the Southwest but many people aren't talking.

Imagine if you are a large landowner in an area where these animals are present. It becomes know that your land is part of their habitat and then a slew of biologists,scientists and bureacrat are now roaming your property and most likey using some unknown law,doing legally. I know some farmers in Connecticut tell me there are some black bear on their property but they keep it a secret for that very reason.

[Chas.]

Imagine if you are a large landowner in an area where these animals are present. It becomes know that your land is part of their habitat and then a slew of biologists,scientists and bureacrat are now roaming your property and most likey using some unknown law,doing legally. I know some farmers in Connecticut tell me there are some black bear on their property but they keep it a secret for that very reason.

If one owns a tract of land and knows jaguar(s)s are there, there's a couple of reasons for not letting it be known. 1) It's not a pest, you have an appreciation of it, and you don't want poachers, or 2) it is a pest, you want to get rid of it, but you don't want USF&W or animal rights groups interferring.

If there was one, there's probably more. Or it's a female lost its way.

Interesting cat. From Wikipedia:

"The head is robust and the jaw extremely powerful. It has been suggested that the jaguar has the strongest bite of all felids, and the second strongest of all mammals; this strength is an adaptation that allows the jaguar to pierce turtle shells. A comparative study of bite force adjusted for body size ranked it as the top felid, alongside the clouded leopard and ahead of the lion and tiger. It has been reported that "an individual jaguar can drag a 360 kg (800 lb) bull 8 m (25 ft) in its jaws and pulverize the heaviest bones".

[donw]

where i live, here in so. cal., my wife and i saw a 'strange' looking cat. much too large to be a feral cat, too small to be a mt lion, had a long tail, but not long enough to be a mt lion but not short enough to be a bobcat, had a 'rosette' pattern under a dark coat.

my wife and i both know what mt lions and bobcats look like as we have them locally and have seen, especially, the bobcat on a nearly daily basis.

i talked to a game warden about. he said there had been reports and speculations that the jaguar is migrating northward from Mexico.

is it possible? yes...it is; I'm certain we saw one.

[blackhawk44]

Don't think that AZ is the only bastion. A friend and I got to watch one northwest of Uvalde, Texas for about ten minutes one afternoon in 1974. It was a pothole where we had seen several cougars in the past. I had a pretty good view through a K6 Weaver at about 75 yards and came very close to committing a state and federal crime.

At the time, I also owned a small plane and came to associate with a number of brush pilots in the area. To a man, they reported that would jump one every few days in the area when working close to the ground on cattle or deer surveys.

Don't bother reporting them to Texas Parks and Wildlife. They firmly believe that the last one seen in Texas was in 1938 and they are sticking to the story.

[Batman1939]

There have been several records (including specimens) of jaguars in AZ over the past century or so. They have even been recorded as far north as the Grand Canyon. Most individuals were thought to be dispersing males (males usually move farther from their place of birth than do females in mammals). Several photos have recently been made by trail cameras near the Mexican border (lots of illegals photoed too). I don't know the specifics of the cat in this case, but at least one male has been photographed several times over an extended period (maybe 2 yrs?) and over a wide geographic area. He was recognizable by his unique spot pattern.

[levers]

Almost all of the best habitat in AZ in public land. It would be pretty hard to keep any significant population secret. I have had several guys tell me that they've seen them (or some odd cat) in southern AZ.....but most were recovering from a night's drinking. A lot of cats seem to show up once the cork's pulled.

But, there are obviously at least a couple around so if someone swears they've seen one, that's good enough for me. I haven't been lucky enough to see one in over 30 years of hammering around southern AZ.

[Charles]

The last Jaguar in Texas was killed in 1914 on a ranch a mile or so from where I live at the present. We do have some ocelots.

[Gary]

What are some good calibers for Jaguar?

[76/444]

Well, Gary,... from my only sighting of one, and how fast it was, as well as my assumption that I probably could never get close to one because of how aware that one was,... my guess would be a 12ga. or 10ga with double buck!!!

But there would be no need to just shoot one, in my opinion. For defensive purposes in the woods I carry a 44mag side arm and a 444 carbine. I guess the honest answer would be,.... what ever you shoot REALLY well with!!!