OT - Framing Nailers

[cnjarvis]

Hey, at least it's a "gun"...

I'm looking at getting a framing nail gun and wondered what you guys thought of the advantages/disadvantages of a full head vs. clipped head nailers.

I can get my hands on a Porter-Cable clipped head nailer for $159, factory reconditioned with full warranty but I'm not sure about the nail style.

[Noah Zark]

I've used framing guns set up for both types of nail, and the structures built with the two different styles of collated nails are still intact.

Just an FYI -- Never use a nail gun for ACQ treated lumber. Always use coated or galvanized screws that say on the packaging "suitable for ACQ treated lumber." The reason? ACQ treated lumber is significantly more corrosive to steel than the older CCA treated lumber due to the higher amount of copper used in the treating of the wood. This copper content drastically increases the conductivity of the lumber, and will "burn up" standard silver and yellow chromated zinc plating in a matter of months, and then start rusting the screws.

Noah

[deerwhacker444]

Are you sure you're responsible enough to own a nail framer. For some reason I see this X-Ray with C.Jarvis on it.!



It's okay Doc,..it only hurts when I think.!

[Montana Outfitters]

FOR PERSONAL USE TRY HITACHI OR BOSTICH.......HITACHI'S SURVIVE REAL WELL AND PARTS
ARE REDLY AVAILABLE ON THE NET AS SOME OF THE CHEEPER USE ONCE AND THROW AWAY
ONES YOUR'E GOING TO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR...........WE JUST BOUGHT A HITACHI FRAMING
NAILER OUT OF A PAWN SHOP FOR $105.00 IN 90% CONDITION AND IT'S A NAILING FOOL CAPABLE OF DRIVING 3 1/4 " NAILS AT LESS THEN 70# PRESSURE SO SHOP THE PAWN SHOPS AND IF THEY CANT SHOW YOU IT WORKS AT THE SHOP GET THEM TO NOTE ON THE RECEIPT
THAT YOU WILL TEST AT HOME SO IF THERE IS A PROBLEM YOU CAN TAKE IT BACK.......

[Ray Newman]

I'd go with a full head.

On some of the woodworking boards I seem to recall mention made that for some applications clipped head don't hold as well and/or will not meet code.??....

[2ndovc]

We have a bit of everything here at work.
They all get abused equally. Doesn't seem to be much difference, though I haven't
had any luck with Hitachi.

Personally my two favorites that have been with me through
three house, two new construction and one near total rebuild are
Porter cable clipped h. fraiming nailer and a Stanley / Bostich angled finish nailer.
Both have been in for new seals but for the amount of use they
have had that's to be expected.

As far as the clipped vs. round. Doesn't make a bit of difference.

jb

[cnjarvis]

Are you sure you're responsible enough to own a nail framer. For some reason I see this X-Ray with C.Jarvis on it.!



It's okay Doc,..it only hurts when I think.!

Nah, Ain't a nailer made that will drive one into my skull.

[iceman]

My only experience with a framing nailer is an Eastwing 20 oz manually operated nailer. A little hard on the nail holding hand if your sights are off.

[cnjarvis]

My only experience with a framing nailer is an Eastwing 20 oz manually operated nailer. A little hard on the nail holding hand if your sights are off.

I have one of those and two Vaughn "California Framers" that are well used but I still can't figure out how to make them self-operate.

[wecsoger]

Totally irrelevant to the question, but still a good story...

When I was in college we had an opportunity to tour a the main studio of the state's educational broadcast system. We got to ooh and ahh over the control room, the studios, all the electronics and rest of the goodies. They also took us into the back shop where they did carpentry and constructed the sets.

One guy there was really excited at showing us around as they had just plumbed the shop area for black pipe air and they got new air nailers in. He grabbed the biggest one, and was telling us how this one could drive 16p nails into 2"x4"'s and go way too deep unless they turned the air down. He demonstrated by grabbing two 2"x4"'s and slammed a nail into them.

Now being college students, we're often known for not having the best of lifestyles, to include staying up much too late the night before, and imbibing way too many alcohol-based beverages.

One of our party had done so and arrived at the tour, well in not the best of condition.

By odd coincidence, when the shop chief slammed that 16p nail into the wood or member of the party took that particular time to roll his eyes back into his head and drop to the floor like a poleaxed cow.

I will never forget the look of horror and fear in that shop guy's face as he contemplated the impossible, that he had just shot a nail into one of some visiting students.

It took a minute or two but we got the guy up off the floor, got some orange juice into him and continued the tour.

I have no idea if that shop guy ever wound up having flashbacks or PTSD over that incident.

[Malamute]

I have a Hitachi gun and compressor. It's been a good gun, I've built several houses with it and done a fair bit of work besides. I've found that the Bostich nails feed better than other brands I've used.

Home Depot had a package deal special with the gun and compressor, and air hose several years ago when I got mine. A framer (Sore Shoulder, in fact) that helped me do a house recommended it, and I can't complain.

[cnjarvis]

Thanks for the replies gents.

I found some good information on Senco's website:

Q: What are the pros and cons of clipped head and full round head nails?

A: The clipped vs. full round head (FRH) nail question:

1) Clip heads were the original type of collated nail for air tools, and still remains popular in most parts of the USA.

2) FRH nails came on the scene in the late ’80s as a popular product in the earthquake/hurricane markets (SoCal-Fla). In these markets, discussions about possible code changes led many builders to change from the clip head to the FRH nail. Building inspectors started to discriminate against the use of the clipped head nail. They felt the FRH would help prevent an overdrive into shear wall (structural sheathing).

3) Today, it seems the FRH nails are the dominant format on the West Coast, Florida and the South Atlantic regions. Again, FRH is the product of choice in the earthquake and hurricane prone markets.

4) Independent lab research results yield no significant difference in performance between both types.

5) FRH nails come in strip or coil format. The FRH strips are collated with a plastic material; the coils are collated with wire. Clipped head nails are only available in a strip format and are collated with paper strips and adhesive. The FRH strips will leave some plastic debris on your job site, and some plastic chunks embedded into your work surface trapped by the nail head (flagging). The paper-collated clipped heads are a bit cleaner, with some flagging, but most of the paper seems to disappear.

6) The clipped head tools have a shorter magazine track because the nails are right next to each other. The FRH tools feature a longer magazine track, which protrudes to the rear of the tool body. Some users prefer the shorter magazines for the maneuverability they offer, and some users like the longer magazine tools for the exceptional balance.

Our advice: Buy the format that is popular in your market, so it’s easy to buy the nails where and when you need them. Our dealers tend to stock only the popular format for the specific market you are in, so if you buck the trend, you might have difficulties finding the nails designed for your tool.


Based on advice received and the above, (particularly Item #4) it looks like I'll go ahead and pick up the clipped head nailer. Besides, it "ain't" likely that anything I build will get an inspection anyway.

[HEAD0001]

Porter Cable makes some great tools. All the PC tools I have are 100% reliable, and powerful.

As far as nailers are concerned. I would never buy another one that has a compressor and hose. Too much time is wasted with a compressor and hose. I really like our Paslode gas operated nailer. I only went with Paslode because that is what out Lowe's sells here in WV. They did not sell the gas Porter Cable nailer, or I would have considered it. I went with what Lowe's had because of some discounts I had+Lowe's is unbelievable in customer service.

Once you have a nailer without the hoses and air compressor you will wonder why you ever bought one with the hoses.

There is a mail order company called Tool Crib that sometimes has some great prices. Tom.

[cnjarvis]

Porter Cable makes some great tools. All the PC tools I have are 100% reliable, and powerful.

As far as nailers are concerned. I would never buy another one that has a compressor and hose. Too much time is wasted with a compressor and hose. I really like our Paslode gas operated nailer. I only went with Paslode because that is what out Lowe's sells here in WV. They did not sell the gas Porter Cable nailer, or I would have considered it. I went with what Lowe's had because of some discounts I had+Lowe's is unbelievable in customer service.

Once you have a nailer without the hoses and air compressor you will wonder why you ever bought one with the hoses.

There is a mail order company called Tool Crib that sometimes has some great prices. Tom.

I've used the paslode gas nailer and it IS nice but no more often than I use a nailer, I don't need one. Air tools are just fine for me. I have a brad nailer, a 15ga. finish nailer, and a coil roofing nailer - all Porter Cable. Even the compressor is P-C. All have worked flawlessly for me.

[HEAD0001]

When doing a roofing job the hose does not get in the way(as much), that much is true.

However the OP said he is looking for a framer, not a roofing gun, or a brad nailer. So normally when someone is looking for a framer they are going to build a house, or other large building. This is where the hoses and air compressor are a hassle. You can carry a Paslode up a ladder, then hand it outside to somebody running fascia board, then back inside to somebody framing a wall. And you can do all that in just a couple of minutes. Try lugging and snaking a hose around all those places at once.

Labor has become the most expensive cost in building a house, or other structure. The time I can save by having a hoseless framing gun on a house is substantial. I have done it. I can even knock a few hours off of a roofing job by using a hoseless roofing gun(we have measured it). And 2 or 3 hours labor with a crew of 3 or 4 can be hundreds of dollars. It really is that simple.

Does the occasional hobbyist need a framing gun. No. But if you are building a large house and paying your labor. You will pay for you hoseless nailer a couple of times over in just the cost of one house. Easily. Tom.

[cnjarvis]

However the OP said he is looking for a framer, not a roofing gun, or a brad nailer. I AM the OP So normally when someone is looking for a framer they are going to build a house, or other large building. This is where the hoses and air compressor are a hassle. You can carry a Paslode up a ladder, then hand it outside to somebody running fascia board, then back inside to somebody framing a wall. And you can do all that in just a couple of minutes. Try lugging and snaking a hose around all those places at once. Agreed, air hoses are a PITA

Labor has become the most expensive cost in building a house, or other structure. The time I can save by having a hoseless framing gun on a house is substantial. I have done it. I can even knock a few hours off of a roofing job by using a hoseless roofing gun(we have measured it). And 2 or 3 hours labor with a crew of 3 or 4 can be hundreds of dollars. It really is that simple. Also agreed

Does the occasional hobbyist need a framing gun. No. Agreed but I want one and it makes certain tasks much faster/eaiser But if you are building a large house and paying your labor. You will pay for you hoseless nailer a couple of times over in just the cost of one house. Easily. Tom.

[Streetstar]

I bought a Hitachi clipped head a few months ago for a dog house project i did (its a big dog house -- )

I love it --- i did the same research and talked to a contractor who helped me build a deck off the side of my house

Full head nails are requirements in Florida (hurricanes), but typically the nails are held together with a plastic strip rather than paper like the clipped head --- allegedly, the clipped head nails feed smoother and you dont get little bits of plastic hitting you in the face -- thats all i needed to know

I am a big DeWalt fan for a lot of my cordless tools -- (drill, cordless impact, etc) as well as a couple of corded tools i have, so i was set to buy the DeWalt framing nailer, until the same contractor buddy told me to buy the Hitachi if i was buying a $200 nailer. Senco or Paslode if i was going to spend a little more -- then i did a little internet research which seemed to echo those sentiments

[cnjarvis]

Too late Doug...

I picked it up a couple of hours ago at Whitton Supply. $159 for the gun, $24 for a box of 2500 3" nails. Cost me the same out the door that the schmucks in the orange smocks were asking for just the gun.

[claybob86]

Lookin forward to the range report!

[Streetstar]

Too late Doug...

I picked it up a couple of hours ago at Whitton Supply. $159 for the gun, $24 for a box of 2500 3" nails. Cost me the same out the door that the schmucks in the orange smocks were asking for just the gun.

let me guess --- you got a Porter Cable? --- so which way did you go, clipped or full head? I had to look at your avatar line to realize you were an Okie too when i heard Whitton Supply. They also handle P-C's warranty work there too. I torched a P-C compressor running a D-A sander and took it there -- but sadly it was 2 months out of warranty by that time

[cnjarvis]

Too late Doug...

I picked it up a couple of hours ago at Whitton Supply. $159 for the gun, $24 for a box of 2500 3" nails. Cost me the same out the door that the schmucks in the orange smocks were asking for just the gun.

let me guess --- you got a Porter Cable? --- so which way did you go, clipped or full head? I had to look at your avatar line to realize you were an Okie too when i heard Whitton Supply. They also handle P-C's warranty work there too. I torched a P-C compressor running a D-A sander and took it there -- but sadly it was 2 months out of warranty by that time

Okie born and raised!

Yeah, I went with the Porter Cable clipped head. I think it will do everything I need it to. I have a few DeWalt tools and like them very much. (thickness planer, sawzall, cordless drill and random orbit sander to be precise) To be honest though, I would likely have bought whatever they had in stock that was factory reconditioned and had a warranty provided it was a major brand.

Shot a few 2" galv. ring-shank nails this evening to fix my fence. The gun works perfectly.