Sharps rifles

JNG · Post by **JNG** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:33 am

Before the years end I will be retired. 34 years as a Police Officer and Firefighter is enough. Now I hope to get pro's and cons about a retirement gift to myself.
I want a Sharps rifle. I know of two companies in Mont. that I am considering. At this time, I am leaning toward Shiloh Sharps and their 1874 carbine. I would like it in 50-70. I am planning to hunt deer and shoot the stuff out of it. I don't have any big reason to get it in 50-70 other then I already have a 45-70 lever.
Has anybody ever had any dealings with either of these companys (CS Sharps-Shiloh Sharp).
By the way, I have the book Sharps Fireamrms by Frank Sellers, durn near wore it out.
I do appreciate any guidence with the Sharps.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:51 am

Pretty good article on the Sharps in the 2009 Gun Digest.

moodyholler · Post by **moodyholler** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:54 am

JNG, happy retirement! I have a C SHarps 50-90, and have had SHilohs. It is tit for tat. Finish is slightly better on a Shiloh, but wait time is longer. Shiloh makes thier own barrels, and use investment castings. C Sharps uses Badger barrels and machined bar stock parts, and are some quicker. I like them both and really enjoy handing mine to someone to shoot. Enjoy and post pics when you get one. Later, moodyholler

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:55 am

I have a Shiloh #1 in 45-70 that I'm just about ready to start loading black for now. I can't speak to the quality of the C. Sharps rig, but for the Shiloh I've owned two. I foolishly let the first one get away, this one isn't going anywhere. The Shiloh is a very high quality firearm. Fit and finish is second to none. My only advice would be to get it in 45-70 over the 50-70. Easier to get components especially if you aren't going to load black.

Sorry about the picture quality.

Front sight made from an indian head penny.

Wind · Post by **Wind** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:59 am

Hey there JNG - I have nothing but good things to say about the Shiloh Rifle Company. Here is mine. Best regards. Wind

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:32 am

Howdy Pard,

Good luck on your retirement. I am retireing this year after 30 years in Police and fire also. I bought an 1874 Pedersoli sharps. This is my fun gun. Shiloh Sharps is top of the line, C. Sharps is a good one also. If I had my pick and the money I would go with the Shiloh, right now it is the top of the line IMHO. Get one you'll love it.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:53 am

Wind: that looks to me like my Shilo Hartford model.. I have taken elk and mule deer with mine here in Wyoming.. love it!! Mine is a 45-70.. it has been a great choice as far as reloading components, and I have five other 45-70s.. have to keep ammo for the Shilo seperate.. Les

Wind · Post by **Wind** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:01 pm

Les - Good eye!! Best regards. Wind

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:10 pm

kim - I like that gun!

parkergunz · Post by **parkergunz** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:14 pm

JNG

Shiloh Sharps is a top notch company to deal with. I have a #3 with a 34" heavy half in .45-90 and a Montana Roughrider 30" standard half in .45-70. I tend to agree that one should get their feet wet with a .45-70. Components are readily available and this caliber is capable to 1000 yd distances.

PS Get good sights. Do not go cheap. Visit the Shiloh Sharps Forums website for help.

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:22 pm

+1 on the Shiloh Sharps. I had one of the Montana models.
+1 also on going with the 45-70.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:03 pm

JNG wrote:Before the years end I will be retired. 34 years as a Police Officer and Firefighter is enough. Now I hope to get pro's and cons about a retirement gift to myself.
I want a Sharps rifle. I know of two companies in Mont. that I am considering. At this time, I am leaning toward Shiloh Sharps and their 1874 carbine. I would like it in 50-70. I am planning to hunt deer and shoot the stuff out of it. I don't have any big reason to get it in 50-70 other then I already have a 45-70 lever.
Has anybody ever had any dealings with either of these companys (CS Sharps-Shiloh Sharp).
By the way, I have the book Sharps Fireamrms by Frank Sellers, durn near wore it out.
I do appreciate any guidence with the Sharps.

Either company is fine to do business with, either one makes a rifle that will not loose any value, if you take reasonable care of it.
I'ld urge you to think about this carbine thing a bit. If you get bit by the bpcr competition bug, that carbine will wear you down in short order. A 74 with a shotgun butt and 26 or 28 inch barrel won't give up any handling qualities, but will be more managable for long strings of fire. Also should you at a later date decide more horsepower is needed opening the rifle up to the 2.5 inch case will still be controllable, but the carbine opened up would be brutal.
Be sure and post pictures of the new riflegun.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:08 pm

I have owned several sharps from both companies. I found the quality of the Shiloh to be second to none. Here is my hartford rifle in 45-70. wood is spectacular.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:22 pm

Something to consider strongly in either company's gun when you order it is exactly what purpose you want it for.

My Shiloh saddle rifle is the finest rifle I own, but I'm wishing now I'd ordered a lighter barrel on it. The thing is not much fun to carry for long periods on foot.

If yours will be a range gun only, it doesn't matter. If carried on horseback or ATV, doesn't much matter. If carried on foot, it does.
A carbine's a good choice for actual carry, and since I retired from the PD I've noticed I'm not getting any younger and certain things are actually getting heavier as time goes by.
Not trying to talk you out of the caliber, but .45-70 will be much cheaper to shoot & probably a little easier on your shoulder in a carbine, assuming full-power loads.

The Shiloh people are great to deal with, and making most parts in-house gives 'em an edge in quality control.
I've owned two Shilohs, no complaints whatever. The first turned out to not quite be what I wanted & was sold to buy the second. No fault of Shiloh on the first, I just miscalculated on what I really wanted.

Denis

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:23 pm

kimwcook wrote:I have a Shiloh #1 in 45-70 that I'm just about ready to start loading black for now. I can't speak to the quality of the C. Sharps rig, but for the Shiloh I've owned two. I foolishly let the first one get away, this one isn't going anywhere. The Shiloh is a very high quality firearm. Fit and finish is second to none. My only advice would be to get it in 45-70 over the 50-70. Easier to get components especially if you aren't going to load black.

Sorry about the picture quality.

Front sight made from an indian head penny.

i like that front sight,

what is the ring/stripe on the barrel @ mid point?

barbarossa · Post by **barbarossa** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:32 pm

Here are mine

Shiloh Military 3band 45/70 cal,shotgun butt with checkered steel plate, bone charcoal case coloring. Ideal hunting Sharps

Shiloh 63 Sporter 54cal

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:37 pm

If you're interested in one from Shiloh you can call and talk to them on the phone. They keep a few around made up and ready for sale, so if what they have is what you want... no wait.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:17 pm

Rjohns94: Nice buffalo!! thanks for reminding me.. I also killed a bison cow with my Hartford model 45-70, (either I'm gettin' old and fergitful, or it wasn't that memorable of an experiance.... or both??) Did her in right quick.. 300 gr hp smokeless load. Shore was good eatin'!! A ranch hunt, er...shoot.. sorta like killin a beef. Les

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:29 pm

I had a Shiloh Montana in .45-70 Best fit & finish on any rifle I have ever owned, I would recommend the .45-70 since it can be used with BP or smokeless and can be more powerful than any BP rd.
+1 on the Shiloh Sharps. I had one of the Montana models.
+1 also on going with the 45-70.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:18 pm

Pokey, that's some tape I put there to show me where my node was on the bbl. It's a starting point to lay my bbl on cross sticks when firing. I'm just getting into loading black for it and haven't had a chance to check that situation out, but most people find that they have a sweet spot or node on their bbl. where pressure from laying it on cross sticks doesn't affect the shot, or effect it the least. That's what I've read. I'm sure there's others here that can comment more on that.

Mitch1352 · Post by **Mitch1352** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:02 pm

I have a Shiloh Number 1 in 45-70 and love it. I ordered a 74 carbine for my son as his reward for making Eagle Scout. It has upgraded wood and his initials "Quigley-style" in gold on the sideplate. It is seriously cool. The folks at Shiloh are great to deal with, too.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:16 am

What I understand is that both the C. Sharps and Shiloh are top of the line guns... When I bought my 1874 Long Range Express, C.Sharps didn't have an 1874, so I went with Shiloh. Mine was a graduation gift from the wife... she saved for 11 years to buy it for me... .40-90 SBN, or .40 2-5/8 BN.

About midway thru the wait cycle I had them upgrade the wood & make the barrel 30" instead of the usual 34" for the LRE to make sure I made weight for NRA BPCRS. 12.6lbs IIRC, mine weighs 12.3lbs. Since I settled on the tang sight only, there's no barrel sight dovetail and they cut the chamber for grease groove bullets instead of the paperpatch this caliber was traditionally loaded with (PP requires a longer freebore).

That flexibility is very nice. The "new" owners of Shiloh (been 10+ years, but still think of them as the "new owners")... are probably easier to work with that Wolfgang was.

Here's mine:

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:46 am

Man that is sweet Griff

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:38 am

I have an EMF 1874 Sharps with 30" barrel and upgraded wood chambered in 45-70 that I love.

I suggest you check those out as well www.emf-company.com

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:06 pm

The Italian Sharps repros can be good shooters, but are not in the same class in terms of overall quality.
If you have the money & want the best, either of the two domestic makers will get it for you.
That's not knocking anybody's Pedersoli, just stating fact.
Denis

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:45 pm

The C Sharps 75 is probably the best value in bpcr's going. For under 2k you can have a rifle ready to go where you want do what you want the minute you open the box.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:52 pm

I have a Shiloh/C. Sharps 45-2.4" M1874 made when both companies were one-in-the-same. Because of a less than satisfactory experience with C. Sharps over the cost of re-barreling this rifle with a Badger barrel a few years ago, I can not recommend C. Sharps. I also know of a 3-4 other shooters who are not satisfied with C. Sharps. Now I understand that the company was for sale and maybe things have changed.

I am fortunate enough to have 2 Shiloh Sharps M 1874's: a 25 lbs. .45-2.4" and a .45-2.1" Business Rifle. Those rifles are top drawer as far as quality. And Shiloh is a strong supporter of the Black powder cartridge Rifle Shooting sports. I have no qualms about recommending them.

If you are thinking of a .50-70, order a rifle with a slow twist. Most .50's today are rifled with a 1:22" twist, which is designed to stabilize the 650 grain and heavier bullets. The original .50-70 loads had lighter bullets -- 425 to 500 grain bullets and a slower twist is needed to stabilize them. A 1:36" twist for .50-70 will stabilize these bullets.

Lastly, don’t under estimate a .45-70 Gov't with a case full of black powder and the “lowly” soft alloy 500 grain Gov’t style bullet. Hunters on the Shiloh board are reporting very deep penetration and sometimes complete pass through on deer and buffalo with this combination. Some .45-70 smokeless are also very powerful. And components are plentiful and not too expensive.

JNG · Post by **JNG** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:45 pm

Thanks a ton for all the responses. I plan to use the Sharps as a working rifle. I know that I could get others for this price..but.. I know the power of the 45-70. My 1895 guide is great and knocks deer flat in to China. If I had any sense I would go with the 45-70. but heck, I told you'all that I was a Fireman. I do not plan to shoot BPC. This may be my biggest error in my pick. We'll see. Please tell me more about the 50-70.
Thanks again.

Joe
P.S. time to come clean, JNG stands for Joe No Good.. when I was in the Navy as a radioman I used JR on the orderwire. But a First Class overroad me. So now JNG for life.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:50 pm

I don't have a Sharps

but Shiloh Sharps is a big supporter of the military. Many of there employees have served or have family members that are serving. If I had the cash I would go with them.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:39 pm

Jeremy keep putting your name in the pot for the drawing on the military tribute rifle.
C Sharps is quite good at donating prizes to be given to the junior shooters . At the Quigley they give every kid a prize, and donate a rifle for the juniors only to draw.
Either outfit has always been good to me.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:01 pm

JNG: I 'dunno' about shooting smokeless powder in a .50-70.

I maybe overly cautious, and I will not do it after I take possession of my .50-70. Wouldn't even want to do it in a bad dream. Seen too many reproduction black powder-era rifles (and a few originals) with ringed chambers as a result of shooting smokeless powder. IMO, these cases are just too big for "safe" smokeless powder charges. Same goes for the larger .45 and .40 calibres.

For the price of a Shiloh, why take the chance?

Some load with Pyrodex, but it leaves residue and the cases still need cleaning. I don't personally know of anyone who loads cartridges with Triple 7 or the other black powder substitutes, so I can't comment on those propellants.

Hard to beat a .45-2.1". Something else to think about. Let's say you are on the hunt-of-a-lifetime and you find that you left your .50-70 Gov't. ammunition at home. Where are you going to buy .50-70 cartridges? More chance of finding commercial .45-70.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:05 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Jeremy keep putting your name in the pot for the drawing on the military tribute rifle.
C Sharps is quite good at donating prizes to be given to the junior shooters . At the Quigley they give every kid a prize, and donate a rifle for the juniors only to draw.
Either outfit has always been good to me.

Oh I do. Just waiting for them to draw my name.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:52 pm

My experience has been limited to handling these rifles at a local dealer, and dreaming. Shiloh and C. Sharps are a step above the Italian makers, and Pedersoli is a big step above the lesser Italian products, to my eyes, regarding fit and finish. For some reason, this dealer has had several pre-owned C. Sharps 1875s in recent years, and I very nearly put one on layaway.

A friend and former co-worker really likes his Shilohs. He shoots so far from my home, though, I have never been present to see him shoot. (We live four hours' drive apart, and his family's ranch is several hours farther away.)

I have thought about ordering a Shiloh, or a Lone Star Rolling Block, to coincide with my retirement from peace officering, which will probably be around year 2014. Lone Star is located in Conroe, Texas, about an hour's drive from me.

JNG · Post by **JNG** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:56 pm

JNG: I 'dunno' about shooting smokeless powder in a .50-70.

I maybe overly cautious, and I will not do it after I take possession of my .50-70. Wouldn't even want to do it in a bad dream. Seen too many reproduction black powder-era rifles (and a few originals) with ringed chambers as a result of shooting smokeless powder. IMO, these cases are just too big for "safe" smokeless powder charges. Same goes for the larger .45 and .40 calibres.

For the price of a Shiloh, why take the chance?

Some load with Pyrodex, but it leaves residue and the cases still need cleaning. I don't personally know of anyone who loads cartridges with Triple 7 or the other black powder substitutes, so I can't comment on those propellants.

Hard to beat a .45-2.1". Something else to think about. Let's say you are on the hunt-of-a-lifetime and you find that you left your .50-70 Gov't. ammunition at home. Where are you going to buy .50-70 cartridges? More chance of finding commercial .45-70.

This was the previous post, don't know if I did it right or wrong. If not sorry.

Thank you for your concern, but I have been loading 45-70 with BP and smokeless powder for years. The point is more then likely moat, as I plan to load with BP.(why have a 1874 carbine and not load as it was made) That said, I see no problem using 5744 in the 50-70. The powder was made for this use.

As far as I can tell brass, dies and molds are a onetime cost, the rest is the same as the 45-70. Recoil with a 450 bullet at .458 or .510 with 63 grains of BP should be the same, if not a tad less in the 50-70. And yes, if I forgot my bullets I would be SOL. But I've been stupied before.

That said,I am still debating the 45-70 or 50-70 issue. I am sending my deposit Monday. It will be a 1874 carbine w/24" barrel. Can't wait.
Any more comments, I'm all ears.

Thanks, Joe

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:03 pm

24-inch barrel on a carbine?
Denis

JNG · Post by **JNG** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:46 pm

24" carbine I can see where your at, but from 30' to 34", I guess you could call it a carbine. BTW every hear of the K98, 23". Put a smile face ,but I sure don't know how to do it. Have a good one.

Joe

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:03 am

It's your gun, I wasn't knocking it, just surprised to see 24 inches described as a carbine.

Denis

blueroan · Post by **blueroan** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:38 pm

Shiloh has excellent customer service and a good web site. You get a lot of support and information there. You really want to get in touch with Orville (Loomer) on the Shiloh forums. He shoots originals or very precise copies and has a lot of original or duplicate of same reloading equipment and moulds. I'd talk to him about getting a slower twist for your 50/70, so you could use lighter weight bullets....1-in-34? I've got a 1-in-22 twist 50/90 Shiloh and it really needs the heavier bullets.

FWIW brass ain't cheap for the 50s. A 45/70 is a better idea...but I always wanted a BIG 50 and that's what I ordered...and I'm very happy I didn't get talked out of it!

SFRanger7GP · Post by **SFRanger7GP** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:01 am

JNG:

You worked hard and made a lot of sacrifices helping others as a police officer and firefighter for all those years. Reward yourself, you deserve it. I retired from the Army a few years ago and rewarded myself by ordering a Shiloh Sharps in .45-70. I got the bone charcoal case colored receiver and the most handsome wood they could find put on it. The Shiloh rifles are a true tribute to American craftsmanship. A very rare thing now days. I love my Shiloh and it has never been fouled by smokeless powder or jacketed bullets. But like you said, I would never hesitate to shoot 5744 if I needed to.

I'm getting the money together to order a .50-70. I just need to decide if I want another Shiloh or a Lonestar Arms Rolling Block. If you haven't read Croft Barker's book on the 50-70, pm me your address and I'll send you my extra copy.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:48 pm

Notice these compressed loads with pressure data

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerC ... %20367.pdf

I used a 1873 Rolling block 50-70 1x42 twist 36 inch barrel with great results with, IMR 4350, single dipped room temperature Lee liquid Alox lube, unsized Lee .515/450 bullet, alloy BHN 11.

The scope was on the rifle just for load testing and the rifle was not permanently altered in any way... My loads ambled along at 1298 fps ES 25 and pretty close to factory velocity and left a lube star on the muzzel..
A net bud had better results with the 2495 than with 4350.. I had to make custom cases (longer) to place the bullet closer to the rifling in my long cut 1873 pre SAAMI chamber... His chamber was a modern cut chamber so he used regular length 50-70 cases and perhaps that’s why the 2495 worked better for him. I wouldn’t worry about the cost of cases.. they’ll probably never wear out, and depending on how close your chamber is cut, you may not even have to size them...

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:50 pm

Notice these compressed loads with pressure data

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerC ... %20367.pdf

I used a 1873 Rolling block 50-70 1x42 twist 36 inch barrel with great results with, IMR 4350, single dipped room temperature Lee liquid Alox lube, unsized Lee .515/450 bullet, alloy BHN 11.

The scope was on the rifle just for load testing and the rifle was not permanently altered in any way... My loads ambled along at 1298 fps ES 25 and pretty close to factory velocity and left a lube star on the muzzle.
A net bud had better results with the 2495 than with 4350.. I had to make custom cases (longer) to place the bullet closer to the rifling in my long cut 1873 pre SAAMI chamber... His chamber was a modern cut chamber so he used regular length 50-70 cases and perhaps that’s why the 2495 worked better for him. I wouldn’t worry about the cost of cases.. they’ll probably never wear out, and depending on how close your chamber is cut, you may not even have to size them...

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:54 pm

I shoot nothing but black in my Shiloh Military Carbine. I would take it to hunt anywhere. It will drop deer with surprising authority, though I should not be surprised.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:08 pm

I can't believe my eyes! Scott, you back? I hope everythings been good for you. I don't propose to speak for everyone, but I think I can safely say you've been missed. How's Kate?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:11 pm

kimwcook wrote:I can't believe my eyes! Scott, you back? I hope everythings been good for you. I don't propose to speak for everyone, but I think I can safely say you've been missed. How's Kate?

+1. Good to "hear" from ya. Again, how's Kate?

SFRanger7GP · Post by **SFRanger7GP** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:42 pm

I have 3 Shiloh's. I bought one for my retirement gift from the army (#1 with all the bells and whistles to make it beautiful) and recently purchased a pair of Light weight Hunter Rifles that Bill Goodman had made up by Shiloh. They have 25" round barrels and splinter forearms. One is in 45-70 and the other in 50-70. You can't go wrong ordering from Shiloh or Bill Goodman. http://www.shiloh-ballard.com/

Both are excellent to deal with. Bill can get your Shiloh to you a lot sooner (got mine in a couple of weeks) and only charges $200 over cost.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:11 pm

ScottT wrote:I shoot nothing but black in my Shiloh Military Carbine. I would take it to hunt anywhere. It will drop deer with surprising authority, though I should not be surprised.

Good to hear you again ScottT, I missed your pictures and stories.

Nath.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:00 pm

nice to see a post from you ScottT, you have been missed. hope your posts continue

Woodtroll · Post by **Woodtroll** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:30 pm

I have one of each of the "Montana Sharps", a Shiloh and a C. Sharps. I believe C. Sharps CAN build a nice rifle when they choose to, but not quite to the quality of Shiloh, and not consistently. Because the owner of C. Sharps lied to me and then tried to cheat me on an order, I will never give them another red cent of mine. (And, I told Mr. Schoffstall I would not hesitate to tell anyone that asked this same story, trying to shame him into holding up his end of the deal, and he told me he didn't care. So, there is my opinion on C. Sharps.)

If I were to come across a used C. Sharps I really wanted and could put my hands on before buying, I would not hesitate to consider it. If I were to buy one new, I would buy a Shiloh. They are good people with fine customer service.

Hope this helps. Good luck, and thanks for your service in the emergency services field!
Regan

gunner69 · Post by **gunner69** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:52 pm

If you just want a "different" caliber than 45-70 have you considered 40-65. It is accurate, doesn't loosen your dentures, and deadly on deer. In a carbine it would be "the shits."

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Mon May 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Griff wrote:
kimwcook wrote:I can't believe my eyes! Scott, you back? I hope everythings been good for you. I don't propose to speak for everyone, but I think I can safely say you've been missed. How's Kate?
+1. Good to "hear" from ya. Again, how's Kate?

I haven't touched Kate in a couple of years now. Mostly shooting that .50-70 Carbine. Thanks.