How to make a marksman?

[gundownunder]

Back in the dark ages, when a dollar was a heck of a lot of money,
a poor kid would be handed a single shot .22 rifle and 2 cartridges and sent out to get dinner. If he came back with just one rabbit he sure as heck better be able to account for that second cartridge.
A rich kid would get a repeating rifle and a brick of ammo a week to practice with.

Now we all know that both these methods produced some excellent marksmen, but which method was better.

Personally, my experience was a bit of a cross between the two. I didn't get my first rifle till I was eighteen and working and I could afford a packet of ammo a week, which produced more rabbits than a family could eat as well as lots of perforated tin cans, foxes, and crows too.

What does everyone think,
Do less bullets make a better shooter?

[FWiedner]

No.

I don't see how less practice would make anyone better at anything.

[claybob86]

Maybe -if you don't shoot well you don't eat- leads to sharper concentration on making each shot count!

[TedH]

No, less shooting because of a lack of ammo will not make you a better shooter. It will however make you a better hunter.

[rjohns94]

What Ted said!

[kimwcook]

I agree with Ted.

[AmBraCol]

Yeah - Ted hit it right on the head.

Coincidentally, I just started reading "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" by Ned H. Roberts (of 257 Roberts fame). In this tome he relates how he was taught to shoot by his uncle. His uncle had picked up a 30 caliber muzzle loader on a Civil war battlefield and brought it home. Roberts was given this rifle when he was just a lad and his uncle proceeded to teach him to shoot. First, off a rest. Then sitting. Then off hand. This was at a distance of 10 rods (55 yards) at a bullseye 2" diameter. When he could consistently keep five shots in or touching the bullseye his uncle reduced it to about 1 3/8" and it started all over again. When that step was mastered they moved the bull out to 20 rods (110 yards) and started all over again - at a 4" diameter bullseye. That is how he became a marksman.

Limited ammo? It will make you a better hunter because you've got to get up close and personal. That is how the caboclos hunted with their small bore muzzle loaders when I was a kid. They HAD to get up close because they'd only use three or four pieces of 3T shot in a roughly 40 caliber barrel - held in place with a jute string wad. This was not productive of tight patterns, to say the least. But they'd get up close and "bust a cap in his ear" so to speak. That is how they put food on the table.

I learned to shoot with a Daisy 880. Ammo was fairly cheap and so I could shoot a lot. That is how I got to know the gun and what it could do. Pretty much if I could see it I could hit it - because I shot it a lot at unknown distances. And for a while I purposely left the sights unregulated. It was shooting high and to the left -or right, I don't recall which right now. But using "kentucky windage" I could drop a pellet right where I wanted it to go. It was hilarious to see anyone else try to do so with my gun because no one else knew where it shot relative to the sights.

Anyway, careful practice and paying attention help make you a marksman. If you don't practice then you lose that edge. I consistently outshoot others at the gun club here because I shoot a lot of pellet gun ammo. They think of pellet guns as "child's toys" and centerfire and rimfire ammo is expensive and the supply is limited. So they don't shoot much. Since I do take plenty of time to hit the range and work on my sight picture and trigger control, when I DO pick up a cartridge gun I tend to shoot better than they do. Practice. It really helps.

Another thought. I could always shoot better than my cousin - on paper. But he could out hunt me. He was better in the woods and had a better eye for game. But when it came to punching paper or swinging cans I could outshoot him probably 9 times out of 10. I spent more time shooting - he spent more time hunting. And it showed in our results.

[Borregos]

Practice, practice, practice

[76/444]

Shooting is no different than any other aspect of individual Creator endowed human abilities.
Some people are naturals,.... who need little practice.
Some people are good shooters,... and with practice get better.
Some have no talent for shooting,... and all the practice in the world will not change that fact.





just one man's opinion

[Ysabel Kid]

No, less shooting because of a lack of ammo will not make you a better shooter. It will however make you a better hunter.

Well put!

[Griff]

No, less shooting because of a lack of ammo will not make you a better shooter. It will however make you a better hunter.

Concise.

[Mokwaw]

I have mixed feelings. I got my first .22 at age 9 (1960) a single shot bolt action (still have it). Remington hi-vel shorts were 50 cents per box of fifty at the neighborhood grocery. Every Friday I used my weekly allowance to buy a box and then waited on Grandpa & Grandma to come into town to do the trading so I could go home with them for the weekend. Grandpa paid me 50 cents for every groundhog I shot on the farm and 10 cents for every rat I shot in the barn, that was big money then, especially for young boy. I soon learned that head shots were the only thing that would anchor the groundhogs, and I also learned how to hit running rats. Rabbits, squirrels, and frogs were a bonus to the supper table. So, I guess less ammo, with practice, taught me how to hit where I was looking. The bounty money I was paid by grandpa went into my saving jar to fund my next gun purchase

[L_Kilkenny]

I personally believe many, if not most, of the stories about little Johnny going out and bringing home supper on a regular basis and hitting the mark every time "because he had to" or would be in trouble are greatly exaggerated and mostly bunk.

That being said, I think Ted's post was right on the mark and I'm with that 100%. If you were to limit me to a single shot gun I'd bring home less game than I do now, no doubt about. But my percentage of hits would be greatly improved. Take coon and predator calling. Many times I won't be nearly as precise with my repeaters as I would be if all I had was one shot. Same with pheasant hunting. Early in life I would always rush that first shot at a bird to the point that I hardly ever connected with it. I'm betting I would of learned to be a better shot EARLIER IN LIFE if all I had was one shell in the gun. But would I of been a Jr. Buffalo Bill over night with no practice? Not a chance, neither would anyone else.

LK

[Hobie]

I think the personality of the shooter, that is such things as their ability to focus/concentrate, to learn, a desire to excel, etc. is more important BUT a certain amount of ammunition is necessary for the shooter to understand how things work. Given the proper personality, every person will still have differing needs as to quantity of ammunition/practice.

[TedH]

We were not a wealthy family when I was a kid. We butchered our own beef and lambs when the deer meat ran out but we would supplement with small game too. Like any other farm kid, I loved to take my 22 into the woods after bushytails. Dad would give me 5 .22 shells, and I'd better come home with 6 squirrels!

[86er]

There is absolutely a natural hand-eye coordination factor. Some starters just have the knack. Natural ability plays a big part. Statistically, an athlete will shoot better than an equally trained person that does not participate in any other athletic activities. I have a friend that is an "average", "mediocre", "typical", marksman. He has unlimited funds and time. He shoots thousands of rounds a week. He has improved from 20 years ago when he started but he maintains a certain level and really doesn't exceed it. One problem is that he has no formal training. His practice is not perfect, it is only what he thinks is right. With a tad of formal training he'd probably improve. Another guy has limited access to a rifle range. He shoots a few hundred rounds per year. He has had some formal coaching and he strives to make every shot just right. Invevitably, he will outshoot Mr. 100,000 rounds per year in a measured event. Overall, with the original post scenario, I believe more rounds would make a better shooter and less rounds would make a better hunter. But, the round count is only one factor that depends on making well executed shots. With proper execution of shots it is certainly possible to shoot less and yet maintain above average shooting ability.

[Sarge]

I think the point here is that a lesser amount of focused, results-driven practice beats hell out of just slinging ammo downrange with no specific purpose- and no goals for improvement on the part of the shooter.

That is an absolute.

[madman4570]

We were lucky to own a big section of land,and growing up my brothers and myself were kinda "so we thought" like Daniel Boone.Running around hunting everything.Had our own range and shot a lot.also had a special range setup for skeet as well.

Honestly though?? The best thing as far as shooting goes was upon entering High School.
Our school starting at 7th grade offered Rifle Club/also Anglers Club.Both of which I jumped on.
The Rifle Club was in conjunction with the NRA Junior Shooting Program.
Our Coach/Graphics Arts teacher was a prrevious 1000 yard State Champion and other titles.
He ran it like being in the Military(hair couldn't touch back of ears and everthing )
Anyway after doing that from 7th-12th grade and getting to Distingused Expert you could shoot very good.

That's when we took our guns to school!

[firefuzz]

Yeah - Ted hit it right on the head.

Coincidentally, I just started reading "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" by Ned H. Roberts (of 257 Roberts fame). In this tome he relates how he was taught to shoot by his uncle. His uncle had picked up a 30 caliber muzzle loader on a Civil war battlefield and brought it home. Roberts was given this rifle when he was just a lad and his uncle proceeded to teach him to shoot. First, off a rest. Then sitting. Then off hand. This was at a distance of 10 rods (55 yards) at a bullseye 2" diameter. When he could consistently keep five shots in or touching the bullseye his uncle reduced it to about 1 3/8" and it started all over again. When that step was mastered they moved the bull out to 20 rods (110 yards) and started all over again - at a 4" diameter bullseye. That is how he became a marksman.

I believe both of these statements are correct and used a similar method to teach both my boys to shoot. However, using a .22LR as a teaching tool has one very severe limitation, you'll damage the rifle dry firing it. I can't tell you how many hours of dry firing I've spent with the boys using a cut-down centerfire rifle to instill the basics of postition and sling usage, as well as hundreds of hours myself doing the same thing.

IMHO the most important thing to remember in becoming a good marksman is you have to crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run. Start close with a decent sized target from the prone, then sitting, kneeling, off-hand. Reduce the target size and start over, then increase the distance and begin again.

BTW, about to commit heresy here, I taught both my boys to shoot using a semi-auto .22LR with a scope. Start easy, make it harder. A lot of people have questioned my methods, but my boys can out shoot any of them.

Rob

[Don McDowell]

The one that uses the least amount of ammo to achieve the proper shot placement will be the better of the rifleman.
The use of spray and pray teaches nothing except for the need for large capacity magazines.

[geobru]

IMHO and as others have said, focused practice will get you there a lot more quickly than just shooting a bunch of rounds at a hillside. We didn't have a ton of money to burn and my idea of a shooting session was when Dad, my brother and I would go out and each shoot about 10 rounds each. In those early years, we shot at tin cans. It wasn't until I got older and had a friend who was into falconry that I learned to really focus and make the shots count when I shot various critters to feed the birds.

I think that anyone, regardless of experience will benefit from range sessions on paper, if for no other reason than to be able to see the affect on POI when you pull the trigger at the wrong time, jerk the trigger, etc.

[madman4570]

Another good thng to do and costs nothing is during those times you can't get out to the range and shoot, put up a dime sized black brady dot on the wall and step back say 30ft.Put in a Snap Cap.
This will still keep you sharp and helps keep your muscles in proper form.

[shooter]

I personally believe many, if not most, of the stories about little Johnny going out and bringing home supper on a regular basis and hitting the mark every time "because he had to" or would be in trouble are greatly exaggerated and mostly bunk. LK

I don't think most of it is bunk. I know my grandpa, who I have never known to tell a lie, and is one of the most honest men I know, tells me that when he and his dad went hunting they came back with one squirrel for every shell spent, and 8 out of 10 squirrels were shot in the head. When you can't afford to supply a lot of ammo, you have to make every shot count.

Sure it takes practice to get that way, but the type of practice also makes a difference. It's just like any other sport. If you practice proper form and concentration you will become a better shooter. The more you practice with the proper form and concentration, the better shooter you will become.

I shot countless thousands of pellets in my back yard growing up. To this day, even though I don't get very much range time, I still do fairly well with a rifle. I didn't shoot handguns much growing up, and my handgun shooting suffers or excels depending on the amount of range time I put in. If I get a lot of range time and focus on shooting handguns, I improve quickly, but no range time makes my pistol marksmanship suffer.

[Modoc ED]

I think a true marksman has a certain ability from birth -- a knack so-to-speak and can hone his skills with little work or effort. Others can, with training, a lot of training, become a competent shooter.

[jnyork]

I'm a fan of practice, but it has to be QUALITY practice. If you are practicing mistakes, you arent practicing, you are just burning up ammo. Careful study and application of the basics of marksmanship will pay large dividends, as will time spent under the coaching of someone who really knows what he's about. The current generation of "spray and pray with my black rifle" or the guys who spend a career sitting at the bench plunking away will never know the joys of being a really capable marksman. It's been my experience that about 95% of people who think they are good shots actually aren't.

[Boreman]

What Ted said

[Lastmohecken]

I shot the heck out of old Dasy BB Gun, and finally got my first .22 singleshot, when I was about 9yrs old. My dad allowed me to burn up a lot of .22's but the singleshot, sorta demanded that I make the first shot count, when I really needed it to count. However, I wasn't a very good hunter, I hunted mostly by myself, and patience was never a virtue of mine. But I believe I was a natural when it came to shooting and I loved to shoot. I was always a better shot then I was a hunter, and I probably still am.

One thing I figured out, when I was young, and deer were a lot more scarce, then today, was that If I blew the shot, or my chance when I finally did get a shot, It ment that I had often blown the year, and remained unsucessful. So, I got serious, and I made up my mind, that I was going to figure how to get it killed, whatever the conditions, if I got a chance, because my chances never seemed to be that numerous in any given year. So, I learned to shoot straight, and make the shot, and it paid off, for there has been many a year, that sucess depended on not blowing that one chance to get something killed.

I think I am a decent hunter, nowdays, but I got to admit, sometimes my patience, and faith that I will see a good head or whatever, is pushed to the limit, but I can still shoot straight if I get half a chance. At least most of the time I can.