OT - Makin Soap

[cshold]

I have been making my own homemade lye soap for about ten years.
Anyone else into soap and candle making?

[Cliff]

While I haven't made soap, I have heard of the soapifcation process being used to make homemade bullet lube for cast bullets. Interesting topic. ATB

[milton]

Yep.made some lye soap;strong stuff! I even use it to degrease metal parts.
Those candles you show are interesting,how do you make them?

[cnjarvis]

Would love to make lye soap - good stuff. My granny made it until she was in her 80's. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[alnitak]

Casa, got a recipe? Is it easy to get started?

[cshold]

Yep.made some lye soap;strong stuff! I even use it to degrease metal parts.
Those candles you show are interesting,how do you make them?

Not candles, that is the soap fresh out of the molds.
Those two molds are used for both candle and soap making.

[cshold]

Casa, got a recipe? Is it easy to get started?

1 pound lard. 98deg.
8 oz. rain water.
2 oz. lye.
Let rain water and lye cool to about 98 deg.
before adding the 98 deg. lard to the blender.
Blend till the soap traces/starts to harden, then pour in molds.
Add a little salt during the blend for harder soap if you like.

ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES.
ALWAYS POUR THE LYE INTO THE WATER.

[milton]

Oh,I see what you are doing!!I tried that soap once and it almost took my hide off!!! maybe I was using too much lye!!???
How does the soap work out for you?

[cshold]

Oh,I see what you are doing!!I tried that soap once and it almost took my hide off!!! maybe I was using too much lye!!???
How does the soap work out for you?

Hummm! Not sure as to why you had that experience with your soap.

Once the soapifcation process is complete you should have nothing but
soap. I do let mine cure for at least 3 mo. before I use it. The longer lye
soap sits the harder it gets. I use it all the time and have never had a problem.

Not sure if you all are aware, but most of what they call soap that is store
bought, is actually a detergent based product. Not a true soap at all.

[milton]

Thank you,I will try the process again!

[alnitak]

1 pound lard. 98deg.
8 oz. rain water.
2 oz. lye.
Let rain water and lye cool to about 98 deg.
before adding the 98 deg. lard to the blender.
Blend till the soap traces/starts to harden, then pour in molds.
Add a little salt during the blend for harder soap if you like.

ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES.
ALWAYS POUR THE LYE INTO THE WATER.

OK, where does one get lard and lye? Grocery store? Can Crisco be used, or is it vegetable oil and not lard?

You say let the water and lye "cool" to 98deg". where do you live...Death Valley? It's winter here in VA. Do I have to heat the water, lye and lard to 98* to mix them?

What setting on the blender (blend, puree, low, high, etc.). How much salt to add?

Seems straight-forward enough. Do you find you save any money?

[piller]

When you add the lye to the water, it will produce a lot of heat. If you ever make the mistake of adding the water to the lye, you will probably have a small explosion and get lye splattered everywhere. Lye is the exact opposite of an acid, and it will eat into things just like an acid does. Treat it with respect or it will hurt you.

[piller]

By the way, for those who want to try lye soap, there is a product available to most pharmacies if they want to order it. It is "Grandma's Lye Soap". It cleans well, and it is soap, and nothing but soap. Yes, most of what is called soap is a detergent. There is some difference, and the detergent actually sticks to your skin a little bit, and that is why it leaves a slight residue. The lye soap leaves less residue on your skin. Are there any Chemists on here who can give a more detailed explanation of the difference?

[AJMD429]

This is from way back, and probably not exact, but the general remembrance I have is that SOAP is a salt of a fatty acid, like the sodium-fat you get when you mix fat and lye (NaOH). SURFACTANT refers usually to an organic molecule with some water-ish (hydrophilic) and some oil-ish (hydrophobic or lipophilic) parts on the same molecule (often they are alcohols or 'poly' alcohols, with long carbon chains saturated with hydrogens, except for one section with several 'OH' alcohol groups instead of the plain 'H'. BOTH have the effect of grabbing some water and some 'oil' or other water-insoluble stuff, and thus allowing them to mix. DETERGENT is a more diverse term, used to mean all sorts of things, although most often including abrasives, disinfectants, etc. in addition to a soap or other surfactant.
There are also 'quaternary ammonium' compounds that are like soaps, but instead of a positive 'cation' combined with a negative and large lipophilic part, they have a negative 'anion' combined with a positive and large lipophilic part. Soaps would usually have an oxygen at the juncture, and the ammoniums have a nitrogen, but they are analogous. Of course some differences in response to pH of the environment exist, and you DON'T want to combine a soap and a quaternary ammonium compound, or you'll get a mess of large lipophilics bound up together (the positive and negative ones), with some salt or lye left over...

Anyway, that's dredged up from a chemistry class in the 1970's, for what it's worth...

[Beaker]

Soap is a detergent. The word detergent comes from to deterge or remove from. Although most detergents other than soap are "synthetic detergents", soap is itself technically a synthetic (made made) detergent or compound, as opposed to a naturally occuring compound.

Most soaps used for cleaning laundry and toilet applications are salts made from the alkali metals (group 1) on the periodic chart, and fatty acids (carboxylic acids). The vast majority being made from saponification of tallow with lye yielding sodium stearate as the soap. Other alkali metals usually potassium can also be used. Soaps can also be made from Ammonia, which give ammonium soaps or other amines (ammonia derevities) such as Monoethanolamine.

Soaps can also be made from the Alkaline Earth metas such as calcium and magnisium, lithium or transition and heavy metals, but these are all insoluble in water. This is why synthetic detergents are better than soap if you have hard water as the calcium and magnesium ions in hard water will form insoluble soaps and precipitate out of the water leaving the soap scum as the classic bath tub ring.

Hard or cake soaps are made from sodium salts, while softer liquid soaps are made from potassium salts as they have a higher solubility in water.

There are two basic byproducts of the saponification process besides the soap: namely water and glycerin. Commercial or industial made soaps usually have the most or all of the glycerin removed and is recovered for other uses in the coatings, cosmetic or explosives industry i.e. nitroglycerin.

I could go on for hours, but if you have any specific questions, please let me know.


Beaker

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I wonder where Beaker got his handle?

[Sixgun]

This is from way back, and probably not exact, but the general remembrance I have is that SOAP is a salt of a fatty acid, like the sodium-fat you get when you mix fat and lye (NaOH). SURFACTANT refers usually to an organic molecule with some water-ish (hydrophilic) and some oil-ish (hydrophobic or lipophilic) parts on the same molecule (often they are alcohols or 'poly' alcohols, with long carbon chains saturated with hydrogens, except for one section with several 'OH' alcohol groups instead of the plain 'H'. BOTH have the effect of grabbing some water and some 'oil' or other water-insoluble stuff, and thus allowing them to mix. DETERGENT is a more diverse term, used to mean all sorts of things, although most often including abrasives, disinfectants, etc. in addition to a soap or other surfactant.
There are also 'quaternary ammonium' compounds that are like soaps, but instead of a positive 'cation' combined with a negative and large lipophilic part, they have a negative 'anion' combined with a positive and large lipophilic part. Soaps would usually have an oxygen at the juncture, and the ammoniums have a nitrogen, but they are analogous. Of course some differences in response to pH of the environment exist, and you DON'T want to combine a soap and a quaternary ammonium compound, or you'll get a mess of large lipophilics bound up together (the positive and negative ones), with some salt or lye left over...

Anyway, that's dredged up from a chemistry class in the 1970's, for what it's worth...

Hey, Wadda he say? This second grade education is killin' me.

I got myself all excited and was getting ready to make my own soap but after listening to these guys, well, I'll just go the CVS and buy it --------Sixgun

[cshold]

Go for it six.
Don’t let our resident lever gun scientist’s chase ya off.
It is fun simple and inexpensive and rewarding to make.
I shower with it every day and still have a good layer of
Hide on my bones.

[Chas.]

Beaker beat me to it. Soap is the salt product of a fatty acid and an alkali, in this case lard and lye. All soap is detergent, but all detergent is not soap. Laundry detergent is a good example of a non-soap (or little-soap) detergent. Octagon is soap if you can find it. So is Woolite and most horse shampoo. These soaps are good at removing dirt/stain but remove little of the lanolin, which is important in wool and down. Ivory bars also used to be soap but not sure what it is now.

[20cows]

Complex chemstry, simple procedure.

[Beaker]

If your interested in making soap, go for it. Better living through chemistry.

[JerryB]

My cousin's wife made lye soap for years they live in southwest ILL. She had to quit making it because she could not buy the cans of lye, it is used in making meth, we can't buy lye around here either. We still have a few bars of her soap left. Now we have to use store bought soap,just ain't the same.

[J35]

My cousin's wife made lye soap for years they live in southwest ILL. She had to quit making it because she could not buy the cans of lye, it is used in making meth, we can't buy lye around here either. We still have a few bars of her soap left. Now we have to use store bought soap,just ain't the same.

So make your own lye, filter water thru hardwood ashes and you have lye, just like granny used to do.

If you get lye on you just wash with vineger, it will neutralize the lye.

Lots of neat recipes for soap on the net.

Have fun

[gundownunder]

Never done it myself but I believe its very easy to make soap when you stuff up a batch of bio diesel.
I was all set to build myself a bio plant for my 4x4 then found out that the waste oils and fats around here are highly sought after by a large processing plant and you just can't get it.

[cshold]

My cousin's wife made lye soap for years they live in southwest ILL. She had to quit making it because she could not buy the cans of lye, it is used in making meth, we can't buy lye around here either. We still have a few bars of her soap left. Now we have to use store bought soap,just ain't the same.

So make your own lye, filter water thru hardwood ashes and you have lye, just like granny used to do.

If you get lye on you just wash with vineger, it will neutralize the lye.

Lots of neat recipes for soap on the net.

Have fun

I haven’t done that “yet” but I think the day is fast coming.
I used to be able to get Red Devil lye at the grocery store.
Red Devil no longer makes it.
The only place I can get 100% lye is at Tractor Supply co.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/drain-open ... s--3001186

[O.S.O.K.]

OK, what about using the ash from a fireplace? That's a woodburning fireplace.

Isn't that what they used in the Pioneer days? That, and animal fat - so I guess they put the ash into the water and then stirred in the lard? Did they use a churn or something?

This is a job for Google!

ETA = yep, check this out! http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Lye

Apparently, you use the ash with "soft water" like rain water to make the lye wich is then used with the fat.

[cshold]

OK, what about using the ash from a fireplace? That's a woodburning fireplace.

Isn't that what they used in the Pioneer days? That, and animal fat - so I guess they put the ash into the water and then stirred in the lard? Did they use a churn or something?

This is a job for Google!

I don't think it works like that.
Yea I'm thinking ya better Google the lye making part.

[gundownunder]

I don't know if its still out there but I did read a recipe on the net about making lye.

If memory serves me correctly it involved wood ash (some woods are better than others) a wooden box and water. You cannot use anything metal and need to wear full PPE,as the stuff is extremely caustic to both metal and human hide.

[Beaker]

If lye is not availible it can be substituted for by using Soda Ash which is also much safer to handle and use. Soda Ash, is chemically known as Sodium Carbonate. This should be availible at many hardware and paint stores. Sodium Carbonate can also be purchased as the decahydrate which is commonly known as Washing Soda.

The saponification reaction will initially be much slower then when using lye. Thus the mixture of tallow, water / sodium carbonate will need to be heated and kept heated to near the boiling point for the cleaving of the triglyceride ester ( the tallow or fat) reaction or saponification process to work. Also more soda ash will be needed but I do not remember the exact stoichiometric amout to substitute off hand.

Beaker