OT - 30-35 caliber muzzle loaders?

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:01 am

I was just wondering if anyone knew the smallest bore size for a production
muzzle loader?

It just seems with all the improvements with them lately that someone hasn't
created a medium bore that will reach out 350 yards. The technology should
be there to make a sabot that would make the loading manageable.

Would a person be able to take a .338 barrel and have a smith cut the chamber
off and attach a proper breech/nipple? Then either patch or make a sabot for
a .323, .311, or .308 bullet?

I know allot of people are against all the changes made to frontstuffers lately,
I'm on the fence about it myself, the season was intended for the limitations
of the firearms and the challenges that come with it. But seeing all the ones in
production now makes me wonder how far can a person go with them?

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:06 am

Or even better yet, only cut about half the chamber off and thread whats left
for the breach and nipple and "in-line" it.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:16 am

[I was just wondering if anyone knew the smallest bore size for a production muzzle loader?]

AFAIK, It's .32 - I had a T/C Custom Shop Cherokee in that caliber, that took patched .310 round balls.

It was a bear to load the patched ball, and I was too lazy to take the time and find the right combination of ball diameter/patch thickness.

Components and short starters are so hard to come by that it's easier to make your own. Commercial accessories are advertized as ".32 - .36" caliber, but they're generally too big & better suited for the .36's.

Also, the 1863 Remingon Pocket Revolver & it's modern clones are .31:

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:20 am

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination so here's my 2 cents FWIW.

The smallest bore diameter that I've heard of for a muzzle loading rifle is 36 cal.

I don't see why you couldn't do that to a 338 barrel but I strongly suspect that powder fouling will become detrimental to accuracy very quickly.

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:23 am

There are are plenty of 32 and 36 cal muzle loaders, by Pedersoli and Traditions. There are also 22 and 25 cal in production, but on a semi-custom scale. These being traditional designs of course. The 32 and 36 cal are suited to firing lightweight conicals, which would easily outshoot any 357magnum.

How about a 32 cal, firing a 125 gr conical at 2,200 fps?

Fast twist, drop in target barrels for TC Arms Hawkin/Renegade are available which would shoot heavier bullets. As simple as the 'inline' ML designs are, I'm sure it would not be difficult to modify an aftermarket barrel to fit.

One could easily pick up a junker TC Renegade for under 150$, and ad a after market barrel of ones choosing for under 200$. That's how I got 'Wompum', a TC Arms Renegade set up for 500 gr conicals. This gun is very accurate out to 200yrds, with very little drop.

I've been shooting a 32cal ML lately, the ballistics are impressive. If it were legal, I would definately deer hunt with it.

10 gr Pyrodex, .315 round ball = 22 magnum ballistics.
20 gr Pyrodex, .315 round ball = +P 38 Special
30 gr Pyrodex, .315 round ball = +P 357 Magnum ballistics
40 gr Pyrodex, .315 round ball = Heck of a lot more power than the 357, but loss of accuracy in my rifle.

The traditional design ML's are easier to find in odd calibers, down to 22, and up to 8 bore.

Check Cabelas, The Sportsmans Guide, Track of the Wolf, Dixie Gun Works, Pecatonica River Arms, Cherries Pedersoli, and October Country, for current production models.

The new ML rage seems to be 40 and 45 cal ML's shotting heavy bullets designed for the 45/70 and heavy 40 cal buffalo guns.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:26 am

I've always been interested in a 32 "squirrel rifle" to use for that very purpose. Seems they are always quite a bit more money than the same rifle in a 50 cal. Less demand I suppose.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:30 am

This is the second time this week that I've had an attack of the acid reflux...

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:23 pm

Why not just use one of those modern custom muzzle loaders? You can get right around 3000fps with them. In the breach you insert a 30-06 sized reusable primer holder. Then pour an appropriate charge of IMR4064 down the barrel, followed by a 150gr bullet.

The inline design is hundreds of years old.
It's the same thing.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:26 pm

I HAD A FRIEND MANY YEARS AGO, BOB WALTERS, WHO HAD AND HUNTED WITH A 25 CALIBER MUZZLE LOADER. IT WAS DEADLY ON SMALL GAME AND BURNED CURTIS&HARVEY POWDER CLEAN AS A WHISTLE.
I HAVE OWNED AND HUNTED WITH 32 AND 35 CALIBER MUZZLELOADING RIFLES OVER THE YEARS.
ANOTHER PAL OF MINE IN GRANOLAFORNIA HEARD MY STORY ABOUT BOB'S 25 AND BUILT A NEW 25 CALIBER ML RIFLE FOR HIMSELF THIS PAST YEAR.

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:29 pm

There are/were ML's made exclusivly to shoot .38 cal wadcutters for target shooting.
I've know several guys who took an old .22 RF barrel and converted it into a ML. To do so with any centerfire barrel is very realistic but the type of projectile would probably be limited to something similar to what it was originally intended to fire. This would mean one of a length and possibly weight, like in the case of a .30 cal, comparable to 150 to 200 grain bullets.
Also, don't some BP cartridge target shooters place the cartridge and powder in the chamber and then load the bullet through the muzzle ... I seem to remember this from somewhere but am not sure ??????

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:15 am

I like the idea, especially the .32 or .38 wadcutter part...

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:47 am

A problem with any ML rifle under .40 caliber is the loading rod.
My .40 cal Kentucky has a 3/8" (.375) Hickory ramrod. Any smaller bore will use steel or fiberglass rod or you will have a problem finding a quality wooden rod. Also .40 cal is the smallest ML legal for deer in WA state.

I know of several .375 cal ML bullet guns shooting 200 or so gr.paper patched and lube groove cast bullets. They are very good shooters out to 200 yd or so for target work. Again, not legal for deer in WA.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:05 am

Once again, proof that this might be the most intelligent place in the universe.

Thank you for the answers, and I didn't think to check on bore diameter regulations
for New York state, so I'm off to do some more research.

joakleigh · Post by **joakleigh** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:05 pm

Hobie wrote:This is the second time this week that I've had an attack of the acid reflux...

agreed

cas · Post by **cas** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:33 pm

NY use to be .44 cal, don't know if they changed it like they did so many other things. The state ruined ML hunting for me when they changed the laws.