OT - Most Common Old West .45 Colt?

[JohndeFresno]

I have to ask; and although there are online forums, this one appears to have the widest array of true expertise in its readership, or at least the most participation by true experts who are kind enough to share that expertise.

After reading another post here, I checked out the Uberti site, and was fascinated by the number of variations of the "old" .45 Colt - barrel lengths, finishes, brass and non-brass parts of the frame. I tried to find some more history of the handgun models offered, but most of the stuff online talks about the 45 Colt cartridge and its history. Here are the questions:

1) Did Colt did ever sell any brass framed .45 Colt Single-Action cartridge guns at the end of the 1800's?

2) This beautiful case hardening that we see on so many replicas - was that a standard and/or common finish in the days of the Old West?

3) If so, was it the more predominant one, or was blueing the more common?

4) Barrel lengths were ordered ranging from snubby size for some lawmen; a 4 inch nickel version with ivory handles for the deadly dandy, Batt Materson; longer barrels like 7 inches or so for cavalry types. But what was the commonly purchased size? I see 4 1/2, 4 3/4, and 5 1/2 inches on the Uberti site, besides the longer barrel versions.

5) Was there one configuration that was sold 90% of the time? Did most gunsmiths sell mainly handguns with a barrel of somewhere between 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 inches, featuring a case hardened finish? Did they usually feature hardwood or gutta-percha (early rubberlike material) grips out of the box?

(From Uberti site - one of several "1873 Cattleman" firearms)

And I wonder why we see 4-inch varieties with only 1/4 inch variance - 4 1/2 and 4 3/4 inch barrels, at least at the Uberti replica site. Does history record that these barrel lengths were commonly sold? As a related question, is the 4 1/2 version just a modern twist to help SASS and other cowboy type shooters draw the gun a little faster for competition shoots?

What say you - our online historians? What did the real, everyday cowboy carry, if he could afford the "newer" Colt 45 Single Action cartridge handgun?

[Hobie]

First, replicas and reproductions will often have dimensional differences intended to make it impossible or VERY difficult to fake the real thing. Too short a barrel, too big or too small a cylinder, cylinder window, etc.

At first, IIRC what I've read, the total SA production went to the military. These were 7½" guns and I think they were CC frames. No brass COLT frames for this gun. The 5½" guns were cut down 7½" guns. This was apparently done to lengthen the service life of the guns without requiring replacement of the barrel. The Artillery apparently got these because the Artillery uses its firearms as last ditch PDWs. Longer range engagement of enemy targets wasn't seen as a need for this branch. I need to read more on the subject...

[donw]

"on the way!"...2ad div arty...

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I have to ask; and although there are online forums, this one appears to have the widest array of true expertise in its readership, or at least the most participation by true experts who are kind enough to share that expertise.

After reading another post here, I checked out the Uberti site, and was fascinated by the number of variations of the "old" .45 Colt - barrel lengths, finishes, brass and non-brass parts of the frame. I tried to find some more history of the handgun models offered, but most of the stuff online talks about the 45 Colt cartridge and its history. Here are the questions:

1) Did Colt did ever sell any brass framed .45 Colt Single-Action cartridge guns at the end of the 1800's?
First let me say, I'm doing this from memory not looking this up so don't bet the farm on it. The only Colt SAA's i ever saw that had brass grip frames were guns that were later fitted with 51 & 60 grip frames.

2) This beautiful case hardening that we see on so many replicas - was that a standard and/or common finish in the days of the Old West?
Most common was color-case because it was a by product of hardening the frames.

3) If so, was it the more predominant one, or was blueing the more common?
It's my ubderstanding that if the gun were to be blued it had to be case hardened first then polished for the blue

4) Barrel lengths were ordered ranging from snubby size for some lawmen; a 4 inch nickel version with ivory handles for the deadly dandy, Batt Materson; longer barrels like 7 inches or so for cavalry types. But what was the commonly purchased size? I see 4 1/2, 4 3/4, and 5 1/2 inches on the Uberti site, besides the longer barrel versions.
I don't know about most purchased but the most commonly seen was the 7.5" cav length mainly because a good number were surplus-ed

5) Was there one configuration that was sold 90% of the time? Did most gunsmiths sell mainly handguns with a barrel of somewhere between 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 inches, featuring a case hardened finish? Did they usually feature hardwood or gutta-percha (early rubberlike material) grips out of the box?
Standard lengths have always been 4 3/4", 5 1/2", and 7 1/2". Early on standard grips were wood but later went to hard rubber. But you could custom order just about any thing you wanted.


(From Uberti site - one of several "1873 Cattleman" firearms)

And I wonder why we see 4-inch varieties with only 1/4 inch variance - 4 1/2 and 4 3/4 inch barrels, at least at the Uberti replica site. Does history record that these barrel lengths were commonly sold? As a related question, is the 4 1/2 version just a modern twist to help SASS and other cowboy type shooters draw the gun a little faster for competition shoots?

What say you - our online historians? What did the real, everyday cowboy carry, if he could afford the "newer" Colt 45 Single Action cartridge handgun?

[bogus bill]

1st, the three standard barrel lengths of the colt saa was 7 1/2" originaly for the cavary, as said then shortened to 5 1/2" for the artillery, and finaly the 4 3/4" was originaly made for the 1st civillian production. Later anybody could order the other lengths. Also the 3" sheriffs or 2 1/2"? Storekeepers. Never were they cooper or brass. That was a replica idea. Others can better say when the various style grips were and when they became available. I know the wood one piece were first though followed by the two piece gutta percha.
First was the so-called pinched frames, (a large V cut into the back of the top strap for rear sight), the hammer and trigger guards got small changes as time went on, also the screws to hold the clyinder pin in, replaced with a cross pin with a small coil spring, the bullseye ejector head replaced with a half moon looking one. Also for awhile a seldom seen longer grip for larger hands was available, as was the bisley and the target model. All in all it takes a heavy study to tell when certain modifcations and canges came also the calibers etc. My guess the most common setup was the .45 colt with case hardend frame, 4 3/4" with gutta percha grips, more than any other combinations followed by the 44/40 better know as .44 wcf.

[Gun Smith]

I have some info from a 1952 book by James Serven.

---Between 1873 and 1891 the (U.S.) Ordinance Department purchased approximately 37,000 caliber .45 "Single Action Army" revolvers most of which were fitted with 71/2" barrels. Later a number of 71/2" barrels were cut off to 51/2" length. ---
To me the term "cavalry" or "artillery" when describing barrel lengths does not mean they were issued to specific units, but are terms that collectors over the years have used to denote 71/2" or 51/2" barrels with the U.S. stamping present on frames.

Case hardening was the standard finish on the frame, gate and hammer. But all blue finish could be ordered from the factory. Target models were all blue.

--- The most common calibers for the S.A.A. "Frontier" Standard Model were:

1. .45 Colt.
2. .44/40.
3. .38/40.
4. .32/20
5. .41 Colt.
For the "Frontier" Target model .38 Colt was number 1.
For the "Bisley" Standard model .32/20 was number 1.
For the "Bisley" Target model .455 Eley was number 1. ---

---In 1925 Colt S.A.A. serial #1 was found in Nashua, N.H. and was bought by a collector for $4.00. This was the price the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) was selling them for.---
Can you imagine you could buy S.A.A.'s for $4.00?

Currently there is a copy of this book on ebay. Colt Cartridge Pistols by James Serven.

[Mike D.]

I have never seen a SA for 4 bucks, but have bought them for $40. The MOST I have ever paid for a Frontier Six Shooter was $200, but that was 42 yrs ago. I have not bought one since. I don't collect them and 4 is enough. I ran 50 rds through my well worn Bisley FSS yesterday. 200 grain semi wadcutters over 6 grs Unique. Just popper loads, but great for breaking beer bottles in the canal.

[JohndeFresno]

Great stuff. Thank you, all.

Once again, you have covered the topic well.