Winchester Model 70 Supergrade thing

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:24 pm

Gentlemen ,
I have had, until now, the wisdom and good fortune to avoid Winchester made products. The winchester made shotguns and rifles have always been problems. I thought that was a thing of the past when I bought Mirokus and found them to be vastly superior to guns made in this country. I guess it's true that there is no pride of craftmanship in this country anymore. I recently bought a Winc. '70 supergrade. The only thing Super about this thing is the price. It is pretty, like the Italian made guns. Came with a 5 1/2# trigger, which I managed to get down to a safe 4 1/2#. I was going to compare to the Remington 700, but don't see a need to even shoot it. I'll dump it my first opportunity.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:47 pm

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. YOU HATE IT BECAUSE OF A TRIGGER ??? YOU ARE NOT GONNA SHOOT IT ??? HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'LL NOT BE A GREAT RIFLE YET ??
I DON'T GET IT...I AM ONE OF THE SLOW GUYS HERE. TALK TO ME...

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:53 pm

He did start this thread with this statement:

I have had, until now, the wisdom and good fortune to avoid Winchester made products.

I don't think it had a chance, but he is certainly allowed to make his own decisions in a manner of his own choosong.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:22 pm

Gentlemen,
To say I am disappointed in Winchesters made here in the last 50 yrs is my point. I will shoot it
as best I can and , HOPE, because I now own it, I am a retired developmental machinist an amatuer gunsmith who would love to see it do well. From what Iv'e seen after takeing it down for adjustment. I don't hold much hope. It was bedded with gum rubber!

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:37 pm

The Winchesters I have had have been fine. All makers have had guns I liked and didn't as far as fit and finish. I don't generally order guns because of that. I buy the nicer ones that I like and they have covered a period of about 50 years.

Wayne Miller · Post by **Wayne Miller** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Call it a hunch, but it looks like you made your mind up about this rifle before you even bought it!! Good grief, give it a chance!!

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:28 pm

I am a dyed-in-the-wool WINCHESTER man, but can't honestly compare the new to the old. I have yet to own a lever action gun that was "newer" than 60 years, with most much more aged. As I stated in another post that attempted to compare "The Rifleman's Rifle", as the Winchester Model 70 was called, to the Remington Model 700, the Remington is a superior product. This is coming from a WINCHESTER collector, but facts is facts. The 700s action is smoother and the trigger pull is lighter, but guess what brings the highest dollar? It must be the Model 70's "mystique", and the name, but it sure ain't the best bolt gun. My 45 yr old 700 is all over the post-war 70.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:37 pm

My push feed 70 30-06 will shoot every bullet weight I have tried and that is about all of them in an inch or better and you can put it in any position and work the bolt and it won't lose the cartridge. Not much more to ask that I can see and it looks great. Very smooth, too.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:58 pm

Gentlemen,
I understand the Mystique of the gun that won the west, after te Sharps tamed it, but the riflemans rifle has only its claw to recommend it, and I have owned 8 Rems. without a failure to extract in 50 yrs. I'll shoot the thing and apologize if it shoots under an inch at 100 yds, which I have always achieved with Rems.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:12 pm

Gentlemen,
I love to shoot, more than hunt, and I will do my best to tweak this thing. I will spend money on the best Dies, bullets , etc to get it to shoot. That's what I like to do. I hope I can do it Well. I still would bet on Remington. Because 8 Rems. outperformed 7 Winc. hands down every time.
I bought this because it is supposed to be the best of the best Winc. has. Mechanically, it hasn't shown much.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:29 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote:Gentlemen,
I understand the Mystique of the gun that won the west, after te Sharps tamed it, but the riflemans rifle has only its claw to recommend it, and I have owned 8 Rems. without a failure to extract in 50 yrs. I'll shoot the thing and apologize if it shoots under an inch at 100 yds, which I have always achieved with Rems.

Why did you buy it in the first place? After 8 700's (why so many? Didn't they stand up? Or did the safety give you a ND?) surely you could have found "another one" to replace your current defective Remington?

In owning several of both models, I can't fault either one. Both have done duty & performed well without hardly any trouble. My original 64' 30-06 700 had to have the extractor repalce by gunsmith Paul Haberly of Chicago after less that 1000 rnd. My brother still uses it after all these yrs. without any trouble. My mdl. 70s had no such trouble including a '46 std. & a 2nd mdl. long action .243 Winny.

Or are you just trying to pick a fight?

You got a burr under your saddle pard?

LB

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:44 pm

I agree that the new triggers are tough. I have no experience with the newest triggers (Post New Haven) so don't know what you bought there. But if you got one of the New Haven rifles then the trigger should be easy to fix. Replace the spring in the trigger with one of earlier origins. I've yet to have any Winchester 70 shoot larger than MOA with handloads. Most approaching 1/2" with good glass and handloads and no other work. I get PO'd too about the triggers, but there is no gun made currently that doesn't need something tuned IMO. Browning current production won't go under about 3 lbs either. And frankly a spring is pretty minor tuning if you ask me.

What happens with the new spring is that it floats free at about 3-4 lbs. So your trigger adjustment goes to nonfunctional at that low point, and the trigger doesn't work. Notice the early spring...it is of finer wire and has more coils which translates into more adjustment. You should be able to pick up a spring designated for the early 80's push feed rifles to make it work right.

John in MS · Post by **John in MS** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:21 am

I rarely say this... especially here, but...

Don't feed the trolls!!!

John

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:19 pm

Paul's no troll, John.

Chalk it up to having a "senior day" - of which I've had more than my fair share, lately.

Paul - I'm sure Victor, being the stand up gentleman that he is, would have told you if it shot terribly, or he had a problem with it, so I wouldn't judge a book by it's cover.

Please let us know how you make out at the range.

.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:51 pm

I've never owned a Winchester bolt action. At the SHOT show last year they gave me a short action and a long action supergrade to test because I questioned the 1 MOA guarantee. I was given one box each of Winchester Supreme ammo. Both rifles put 3 shots into an inch at 100 yards as the guarantee stated. They were a little stiff and slightly rough, but I chalked that up to being brand new. I didn't clean them or break them in, just bore sighted and then shot groups at 100 yds and measured the groups. When I called the shots good, the 3 shots were in the inch. That's a bold statement to make and even harder to come through on. T/C Icon, CZ American Classic and Tikka 85 are the only rifles out there right now along with the Win 70 that make this claim for an out of the box rifle.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:47 pm

Wow... since this rifle is no good you wouldnt feel to awfully bad about sending it along to me.

Heck... I'd toss in $100 and pay the shipping.... sounds like you have been through a bad time.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:57 pm

Gentlemen,
You've missed my point. I'm saying I'm disappointed in Winchesters supposed finest. It's hard for me to imagine Winc. putting such a horrible trigger on their finest??? rifle.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:03 pm

So why is everyone flaming Paul?

I'd say that his standards from his experience as a machinist are higher than most people's. Is that a crime? I've known several machinists and a few tool and die makers too. I've never known one yet that would put out work that was "good enough" unless the standard of "good enough" was perfection.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:37 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote:Gentlemen,
You've missed my point. I'm saying I'm disappointed in Winchesters supposed finest. It's hard for me to imagine Winc. putting such a horrible trigger on their finest??? rifle.

So please tell me, does anyone else put a better trigger on their new rifles today? Don't tell me that Savage, Remington, Browning, etc...have better triggers on their 20+ year old rifles...that's not what I'm asking. What do today's current crop of rifles have. I guess my point is that from what I've seen today you can't get a rifle with a good trigger unless you go semi-custom. The gun industry doesn't see a nice trigger as a selling point, and matter of fact see it as a liability. It gripes me too, but that is the current crop of gunmakers. So you either limit yourself to rifles from past era's, or fine tune them yourself. I personally have little good to say about any new gun anymore. Save maybe Kimber. I've had a new Henry $250, new Colt SAA $1300, new Uberti $900, and new Supergrade 70s $1000. None of them were "out of the box" great. The best of any of them was the Supergrade,...considering it needed the least amount of work to make shoot well. I do want to play with a new Savage though. I wish someone I knew would buy one so I could tear it apart

Ed

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:50 pm

Ed,
You point is well taken. I know all the rifle makers have downgraded their products. With the socialist Party in power and the dumbing down of our present workforce, I guess I do have to remake the rifle myself. The winchester Mystique is all Bull. They are turning out trash.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:03 pm

You know Paul...and this is drifting a little bit, but there are fewer and fewer craftsmen in the US anymore. Unfortunately the rise of NC machinery and lack of basic skills education have caused us to expect everything to go together like an erector set and that is good enough. No industry is above this...not aircraft, not gun builders, not car builders, not construction workers...nothing. We educate and engineer our children to be anything but proud of their work. One thing about working for FA...I was always very proud of what I built and believed it to be the best...not because of the poorer quality of the competition, but the best no matter what was or even could be put up against it in any circumstance. It was the best because we didn't know of any way to improve it from a quality standpoint....it's not been that way with the many other industries I've been in.

Ed

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:43 pm

Gentlemen,
I have to apologize to all the Winc. Fans who had faith in the Winc. .300 Win. Mag Super grade that I badmouthed about the lousy trigger. Bad trigger or not, It shot better than exspected by a huge margin. 3/8ths and 7/16ths groups consecutively. With a 4/12# trigger and factory Federal loads I didn't think the rifle or I had it in us. I will spend some money on a single set trigger. I'm very relieved and grateful.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:30 pm

I've only seen two of the new production Winchester Model 70s. They seemed to be nice rifles. Since Remington removed the lock, they seem pretty nice as well. I don't like Remington's stock design as well as I like Ruger's though. If I was to ever buy a modern bolt gun it would be a Ruger, likely in .308 Winchester. But, I don't need to. I like the OLD bolt guns like the Enfield and small-ring Mauser. Now, if you don't like the modern Winchester trigger you for sure won't like those!

I'm glad it shoots well for you Paul.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:34 pm

I'll try to post a better pic

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Paul,
No apologies necessary from my end...I also hate the triggers of now. But I do acknowledge that the rifles of today have a lot more potential (chamber and barrel wise) than the rifles of what we term as the grand old yesteryear. Consistency in barrels and chambers is a lot closer than what was done 50 years ago. You have a shooter...add a Timney and all will be well. If you tear that rifle apart...would you do me and others a favor? Take some pics of the "new trigger" that Winchester is producing? I'm assuming you have one of the latest run Winchesters. I would be interested to see the "new" set up, as compared to the "old" 70 trigger assy.

Ed

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:26 pm

Hey Pard...Paul Jenkins is a revered pard on this site. I've have never been satisfied with ANYTHING I have ever had out of the box. If there is anyone who can work "magic"...you are one of those guys!

So it's not good...so work your magic pard, just like all of us do. I've been a 70' fan since a little boy...Springfields too! I had to rework my 1946 Mdl. 70 to my liking. My father-in-law modified it before I did...in 1946!!! Right after he bought it new!!!

Same with ALL of my guns. I don't have a "stock" anything. Cars, trucks, saws, fishing gear, guns, guitars & amps...it didn't matter to me at all. I made them my own...& all my "stuff" works better as a result.

Now...take that hunk & make it your own!!

LB

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 pm

LeverBob wrote:Hey Pard...Paul Jenkins is a revered pard on this site. I've have never been satisfied with ANYTHING I have ever had out of the box. If there is anyone who can work "magic"...you are one of those guys!

So it's not good...so work your magic pard, just like all of us do. I've been a 70' fan since a little boy...Springfields too! I had to rework my 1946 Mdl. 70 to my liking. My father-in-law modified it before I did...in 1946!!! Right after he bought it new!!!

Same with ALL of my guns. I don't have a "stock" anything. Cars, trucks, saws, fishing gear, guns, guitars & amps...it didn't matter to me at all. I made them my own...& all my "stuff" works better as a result.

Now...take that hunk & make it your own!!

LB

Levergunner,
I didn't do anything,but pull the trigger, but I'm thankful for a good shooter.

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:56 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote: Gentlemen,
I have to apologize to all the Winc. Fans who had faith in the Winc. .300 Win. Mag Super grade that I badmouthed about the lousy trigger. Bad trigger or not, It shot better than exspected by a huge margin. 3/8ths and 7/16ths groups consecutively. With a 4/12# trigger and factory Federal loads I didn't think the rifle or I had it in us. I will spend some money on a single set trigger. I'm very relieved and grateful.

Good shooting, Paul!

Here's a photo of your Winchester Model 70 Super Grade for everyone to enjoy with you.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:31 pm

I understand the "accu-trigger" on the new Savage guns is pretty good, and the Marlin XR7 is supposed to be good.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:52 pm

Gentlemen,
you've bean very gracious. I probably will never take the opportunity to shoot anything but paper, but I bought this rifle to enjoy as a shooter. I am reloading for it and have desided on putting a Keppinger single set trigger on it. I shot it earlier this week with a Pentax 4X14 scope with 4" eye relief. Way more comfortable on the bench than my full house .45-70 rifles. After all my earlier P& M, I have fallen in love with this rifle. Thank you for understanding an old man.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:53 am

Kinda knew you would "Old Man". Just like the rest of us old coots. Glad you like it!

LB

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:34 pm

Paul,

I am happy things worked out for you, that is one fine looking rifle. The only complaint I think I ever heard about the model 70 was that they were not tack drivers. A 4.5# trigger I think I could live with.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:31 pm

Sir,
This one is a tck driver, Can't wait to put a GOOD trigger on it.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:51 pm

Gentlemen,
I have a single set trigger to install, A keppinger, I believe I can set the unset to 3# and have the set at about 6 OZ. I have also started reloading and have never failed to better factory fodder. Weather is pretty nasty here, so, maY BE A FEW WEEKS BEFORE i HAVE THe results After the great results I got from factory loads and TRIGGER INSalled . I exspect to at least match my pevious groups .Will report on trigger and handloads the first 50 deg. sunny day.
Passing the winter with a great project. I have many reports on my leverguns, but am excited about this one

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:02 pm

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:06 pm

Btw
If you have a busiess license at Brownells you get a 30% discount .

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:01 pm

Hey Paul...see if you can top 5/16" for 5 shots. If'n you can... I will buy you a box of Winny Supreme Ammo. That'll top the best group out of my old '70 '06!

I envy you...a new '70 in .300 Winny...what a rifle!

LB
I keep my word, just ask Joe Miller. Now...go & make me pay Pard!

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Leverbob,
I'll do my best. 5 in 5/16ths is way better than I've ever done. Not to be a PITA, but will you show me yours if I show you mine? For a box of 20 federal 180 gr. Siera SBT LOL. this is fun, We need more of this even if they are'nt levers.. This started as a Pi&$ing match and has turned into a fun post.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:26 pm

Hey Paul...this has turned into a fun post hasn't it. My puter' is broke, so I will have to take a pic & mail it to Joe Miller (my pard) & have him post it. Can't scan or print & having real hard times right now. Missing a file so I can't use the CD either. The fix isn't that expensive, but will have to wait while I catch up.

I will do that this weekend & mail it Monday.

The offer stands & by the way, the group was one time...the next best 5 shot group was 9/16" & averages overall about 7/8". Not bad for a 63 yr. old rifle. It has been doted on by me & my father in law. It's like a favorite grandchild to me. My Marlin 336 is another one I dote on.

You own a real treasure pard...one to pass down.

LB

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:57 pm

LB speaks with straight tongue.

Send 'em pics to me and I'll get 'em posted.

Joe

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:26 am

Only if you don't laugh Jose'...Sending them out Monday & many thanks to my old Compadre.

Thanks Joe!!

LB

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:17 am

Bob,
Heres 25 shots. The X ring is.1". Group size would have to be less than .44

Code: Select all

<a href="http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2654155490061032224MYIdnk"><img src="http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/14003/2654155490061032224S600x600Q85.jpg" alt="target"></a>

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:43 am

[quote="Paul Jenkins"]Bob,
Heres 25 shots. The X ring is.1". Group size would have to be less than .44/quote]

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho ... 2224MYIdnk

Great shooting, Paul! What caliber 92? Distance? Scope?

(The link above will go right to your target.)

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:53 am

86er wrote:I've never owned a Winchester bolt action. At the SHOT show last year they gave me a short action and a long action supergrade to test because I questioned the 1 MOA guarantee. I was given one box each of Winchester Supreme ammo. Both rifles put 3 shots into an inch at 100 yards as the guarantee stated. They were a little stiff and slightly rough, but I chalked that up to being brand new. I didn't clean them or break them in, just bore sighted and then shot groups at 100 yds and measured the groups. When I called the shots good, the 3 shots were in the inch. That's a bold statement to make and even harder to come through on. T/C Icon, CZ American Classic and Tikka 85 are the only rifles out there right now along with the Win 70 that make this claim for an out of the box rifle.

But....But....Cooper guarantees their centerfire rifles to shoot .5" at 100 yards with premium ammo. Weatherby also guarantees the Vanguard sub MOA to shoot .99" or better, most do better. Winchester does alright, nobody ever killed a deer, elk, antelope or road sign with a group anyway.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:14 am

Thanks Victor, for helping with the target. It is a 50 yd..22cal,BR target . A 250-11X, That means 11 of the bullets entered the same hole, the other 14 were no more than .1" away..

As far as not killing with group size, that is absolutely true. You can kill deer size game even if you are the worst marksman in the world.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:09 pm

I have wanted a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight for about as long as I can remember. I have gone through many phases starting with EBRs and then to Leverguns and finally just because I don't have one I bought a new Post New Haven Model 70 Featherweight after reading about it and its new trigger design in a gun magazine. The workmanship of the first one I saw in a gun shop did not impress me much. I didn't even bother with trying the trigger. I then saw a Featherweight Deluxe in 270 on the Davidson's site. It was $200 more than the Featherweight. I ordered it. When it arrived at the gunshop I opened the box and I kid you not everyone in the shop was slobbering at the sight of the gun. If there ever was a production rifle out of the box that could be described as perfect, this was it. The walnut was nicely figured. Fitment was perfect. The action was a slick as a baby's runny nose. The checkering was perfect. It wore a Pachmayr Decelerator pad. I could not find one thing wrong with the wood to metal fit, nor the checkering. Now as to the trigger. It is one of the better stock triggers I have felt in a long time. It broke clean and was as light as any lawyer would allow. I didn't measure it but if felt like 3.5 lbs. I am a trigger snob when it comes to bolt guns. The triggers I am used to are Canjar and Timney. My dad built a 223 Varminter using a model 700 heavy barreled action and waited a year for the Canjar trigger to arrive before he put the gun together. The trigger on my new featherwight breaks as cleanly as the Canjar or Timney although it is a lot heavier. Heavy by my standards but as good as you will get out of the box. I haven't tried to adjust it yet and I may have to replace it as I am spoiled. Although the gun is beautiful and from the looks of the guys in the shop I know it is not just my opinion, I do not expected it to be a bench rest gun. It has a slender stock and a thin graceful barrel. It is a hunter and a looker, not a match rifle. I could learn to live with the stock trigger until I have the time to tinker with the pull adjustment which doesn't allow for much leeway. But the whole point of this diatribe is that this post New Haven Featherweight Deluxe is as nice a production gun as you will find, especially for around $900. As far as pride of ownership goes, it was worth the extra $200 to hear the 8 men in the shop including the owner exclaim that it was one "#%&@ beautiful rifle. Winchester may have gone throught some bad years but the rifle I received is better than any pre 64 Winchester I have handled. CNC machining and other modern manufacturing techniques have made the ownership of quality firearms affordable again.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:03 pm

NonPCnraRN,
What a coincidence, I just finished installing a Keppinger single set trigger on the 70. Took all of a half hour including adjustment. 3# unset, 6oz. set. a breeze to install & adjust, The set weight
of pull can be adjusted with the action together. I haven't shot the rifle with the set trigger yet,
but, I really like it. I do have experience with Jewell triggers and think this is perfect for a hunting rifle. Another range report will follow.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:19 pm

RN...congrats on your aquisition...I'm so totaly biased regarding 70's that I almmost can't be objective anymore regarding bolt rifles. I am shocked at the quality of the Marlin rifles and the Savage efforts as well.

I am profoundly glad that Winchester is back in spades. And, I don't doubt that the new 70's are much superior to my old veteren.

You & Paul have good taste in rifles...

Now the proof is in the pudding...let's see the shooting!

Now...let's see some 94's made by them...I need one in 38-55.

Paul, had to delay the pics...will send to Joe by Wed. My current post will explain why.

Best to your both...

LB

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:32 pm

LeverBob,
Don't take the time. I believe you . It may take me a whilel to best .3125.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:01 am

Paul...I will stand by my word & I will send the pics to Joe...

I've wanted to share with the pards some of my good fortune...That old hunk IS my pride & joy. I'll take the time...

Besides...'Yall don't know what I look like yet! (Hope I don't make 'yall faint)

Nor my new trail dog CC (Crazy Cora).

Bless 'Yall...

LB