.44 - 40: NOT Cowboy ammo?

[Arminius]

Hi to all!

If I want other loads than "Cowboy loads", what except Rem´s and Win´s version of a JSP bullet is out there?

I wouldlok for a "Hi Performance" Ammo in .44-40:

a "hotter" loaded LFP??

a LHP??

a "defensive Load", with Lead or jacketed bullet???

( 200 grs and 7 to 7.5 grs Unique??? )

( Buffalo Bore? Who else? )( and it should be fit for self defense and busting a Roe Deer or a Hog - at least with a Coup-de-Grace )

Thanks in advance, Hermann

P.S.: the ammo should be used in a Uberti/Remington 1875, an Uberti/Henry "One of One Thousand" 1860 and a Win 94 Cheyenne Carbine - but I am working on more ...



Thanks and Greetings from good ole Europe, Hermann

[adirondakjack]

You don't want to run anything hot through the guns mentioned, except the 94. Standard .44-40 fodder is gonna be about it. FWIW, up until 1930 or so, the .44-40 probably accounted for more deer than any other single cartridge.

[Arminius]

Thanks!

I do NOT want to shoot my guns to pieces, but do NOT want that anemic, by Regulations castrated, "Cowboy Load".

I am happy there is SASS, and that Cowboy loads are a good source of brass.

But I want an "Original Load" - 200 to 210 grs and just short ot 40 grs of BP ...

Hermann

[Buck Elliott]

Thanks!

I do NOT want to shoot my guns to pieces, but do NOT want that anemic, by Regulations castrated, "Cowboy Load".

I am happy there is SASS, and that Cowboy loads are a good source of brass.

But I want an "Original Load" - 200 to 210 grs and "...

Hermann

The "cowboy" loads aren't particularly "castrated" by regulations. SASS Rules allow 1400 fps for rifle loads, and up to 1000 fps for revolver fodder.

Anything beyond those speeds is asking for trouble in a Henry (1860) of any make. BTW, the original, "just short of 40 gr. of BP" load will just barely make 1350 fps from a 24" rifle barrel.

You can't make a .44 Mag out of the .44WCF. At least not if you want to shoot it in a Colt/clone revolver or a toggle-link levergun.

welcome to reality...

[Lefty Dude]

Remington & Winchester both make jacketed 44-40 bullets. The Remington's are sized .427", the Winchester's .426".
44 caliber bullets used for 44 Special & 44 Mag. are sized, .429"-.430". Do not use, as they may be to large and restrict chambering in you firearms.

Some modern 44-40's have .429" bores, but not all. Uberti can vary between .427"-.430".
Original Colt's have bores .425"-.427", Winchester's .426"-.431".

If you know your bore diameter this helps with bullet selection. With your varied selection of Firearms in 44-40 you may need to compromise on the desired size.
I have many Firearms in 44 caliber and have a range of sizes on hand from .426" to .433".

Good luck on your quest.

[Bogie35]

I've always wanted to own "old west" type guns and calibers like the Winchester 1873 SRC in 44-40 along with a SAA pistol. But I wanted them to be just a little more powerful. So, one day I plan to have an 73 chambered in 44 Special. It can be easily loaded down to old west 44-40 levels. And Buffalo Bore offers a 255 grain hard cast at 1000 for handguns. I imagine that would translate to as much as 1300 out of a rifle. That load should take most anything in the lower 48 at under 100 yards.

If I could ever afford it...

bogie

[rusty gunns]

You don't want to run anything hot through the guns mentioned, except the 94. Standard .44-40 fodder is gonna be about it. FWIW, up until 1930 or so, the .44-40 probably accounted for more deer than any other single cartridge.

I agree completely with Jack. Why beat a nice gun to death?

I have a puma 92 in 44-40 and pump 240 gr semi wads over 11 gr of unique through it at well over 1400. That will take anything I can find in the woods around here. (Your 94 can handle that load with no problem).

Now in my 73 I use 205 gr rnfp's over 8 gr of Unique. That works out to about 1200 fps and a bit under 12000cup. (Just about the limit for a toggle action.) In the 66 I drop it down to 7 even yielding about 1100fps at 6800cup. Don't have to, but why take the chance of shooting her loose? Anyway, both are safe and respective loads for modern 66's and 73'

By the way, 7 gr of unique will come out of that Remington 75 at about 900fps at 6700cup. It will also bring that 75's trigger guard slapping up against your third finger real smartly.

Load the 94 hot, but keep your others around 11000, 12000cup. Like Jack said, those "light" loads have been putting meat on the table for over a 125 years... since my ex mother-in-law was in grade school.

[AJMD429]

Ammoguide.com lists some pretty 'hot' loads - http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn= ... G&catid=41

Like others said, I'd watch VERY closely the bore diameter, AND the overall strength of guns you 'hot' load in, though.

As far as 'anemic' - maybe so sorta - but I'd still not want to get shot with one of those 'anemic' cowboy loads. Remember - bullet construction is a big factor also, in terms of terminal performance. Ditch the old round-noses and that should pick up the punch-factor some.

[w30wcf]

Current Winchester & Remington .44-40 Jacketed ammo is advertised at 1,190 f.p.s. Up until the mid/late 1970's, .44-40 ballistics were 1,310 f.p.s. with a 200 gr. jacketed bullet. Both were safe in '73 Winchester's. Some of that earlier ammo still shows up at gun shows, gun shops from time to time. Currently, there is a circa 1950's box of REM-UMC available from RTG ammo (1,310 f.p.s.).
http://www.rtgammo.com/
click on: Bargin Bin then scroll down the page

Several years ago I found 2 boxes of this ammo and they still shot very well.

If you reload, Alliant RL-7 powder can be used to replicate the 1,310 f.p.s. loading at low pressure...very safe in the '73.

Bogie35,
In a '73, the .44-40 will deliver more velocity than the .44 Special with both operating at the SAMMI MAP for the '73 (14,000 CUP).

w30wcf

[Griff]

Current Winchester & Remington .44-40 Jacketed ammo is advertised at 1,190 f.p.s. Up until the mid/late 1970's, .44-40 ballistics were 1,310 f.p.s. with a 200 gr. jacketed bullet. Both were safe in '73 Winchester's. Some of that earlier ammo still shows up at gun shows, gun shops from time to time. Currently, there is a circa 1950's box of REM-UMC available from RTG ammo (1,310 f.p.s.).
http://www.rtgammo.com/
click on: Bargin Bin then scroll down the page

Several years ago I found 2 boxes of this ammo and they still shot very well.

If you reload, Alliant RL-7 powder can be used to replicate the 1,310 f.p.s. loading at low pressure...very safe in the '73.

Bogie35,
In a '73, the .44-40 will deliver more velocity than the .44 Special with both operating at the SAMMI MAP for the '73 (14,000 CUP).

w30wcf

What John said!

[Warhawk]

John Taffin has an article in the JAN/FEB issue of AMERICAN HANDGUNNER about "Real" 44 Cowboy Loads. He says that his most used 44-40 load is 8 grains of UNique with a 200 grain RNFP for 900 fps.

[Lefty Dude]

For a real tack driver load, and accurate out to 200 meters here is one for ya.
240 gr. SWC, sized .429" with 6.7 gr. of Unique.
I worked this up for my 92 Rossi/44-40. Its use is for long range CAS/SASS side matches.
BTW; The stock Rossi rear sight is maxed out at 200 meters.

[Buck Elliott]

You can shoot ANY load you want to from a Henry --- ONCE ! ! !

The rifle (and some parts of your anatomy) may never be the same again...

The toggle-link guns (1860 Henry, 1866 Winchester ("Improved" Henry), 1873 Winchester, 1876 Winchester) are severely limited by their mechanical construction. The toggle-link actions are rated at about 14,000 psi MAX. Any load that exceeds that pressure is flirting with danger in ANY of those guns. There just isn't much wiggle-room....

FWIW, the Buffalo Bore ammo ain't goin' anywhere NEAR any toggle-link gun of my aquaintance!

Yes, the Italian copies are a tad tougher (but not by much) than the originals, due to improved metallurgy and manufacturing processes, but you still can't "push the envelope" and expect to get away with it at will.

If you feel you NEED more power than the '73 will handle, find another rifle design, ('92 Winchester, '94 Marlin) that will handle the pressures involved, and leave the Henry to the business for which it was designed.

[Arminius]

WOW!

Thanks for all that Info!

No, I do not want to hotrod the .44-40. And I´ll use the same load in my 94, which will be ok for my Henry or Remington 1875!

I just want "the real thing". And if I take a walk in the woods, I want at least to be prepared for two legged varmints - 200 grs @ 900 ft/s sounds like a .45 ACP load ...



I got a Smith 29 - 6 with 6" barrel and one of the finest triggers I ever had out of the box. I use 9 grs Unique or 10,5 grs VV N 340 for training loads - and both are "hard" on the shooter

... at least in longer strings!

( I have a Browning 92 and a Win 94 to keep it company )

So no need to go over the border with the .44-40, I just wanted to know, WHERE that border is

Greetings to all, Hermann

[Buck Elliott]

Wheeeew!!!

[w30wcf]

Current Winchester & Remington .44-40 Jacketed ammo is advertised at 1,190 f.p.s. Up until the mid/late 1970's, .44-40 ballistics were 1,310 f.p.s. with a 200 gr. jacketed bullet. Both were safe in '73 Winchester's. Some of that earlier ammo still shows up at gun shows, gun shops from time to time. Currently, there is a circa 1950's box of REM-UMC available from RTG ammo (1,310 f.p.s.).

If you reload, Alliant RL-7 powder can be used to replicate the 1,310 f.p.s. loading at low pressure...very safe in the '73.
w30wcf

The Alliant load was lab tested @ 12,100 CUP plenty safe in the '73 (rating 14,000 CUP)

The reason that the factory velocity was reduced from 1,310 f.p.s. to 1,190 f.p.s. is that the factories chose to use a faster burning propellant in their ammunition.

w30wcf