POLITICS - HR. 2640 AKA: THE VETERAN'S DISARMAMENT ACT 2008

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Leverdude
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POLITICS - HR. 2640 AKA: THE VETERAN'S DISARMAMENT ACT 2008

Post by Leverdude »

Hip hip horray, but they forgot to thank the NRA.:?

Brady Campaign [logo]

VICTORY!
President Signs Bill to Strengthen Brady Background Check System

Dear Brady Campaign Member,

NICS Victory Thanks to YouThe first major piece of national legislation to reduce gun violence in more than a decade was signed into law yesterday. Thank you for making this success possible.

Momentum is on our side because of you.
Please give a generous gift today to mark this
terrific progress and keep it going in 2008!

After the Virginia Tech tragedy, with your help and support, we asked our leaders, "What are YOU going to do about gun violence?" They responded. This new law helps make it more difficult for dangerous people to get their hands on deadly weapons.

The Virginia Tech killer was able to arm himself because the court order that should have blocked his gun purchase was not forwarded from the state to the federal Brady background check system. This law will help ensure that records like these don't fall through the cracks resulting in yet another tragedy of lost lives.

Much more work lies ahead for your Brady Campaign. We will closely monitor the implementation of the legislation to make sure that it is as effective as it can be. And we continue our efforts to pass universal Brady background checks on all gun sales, including closing the gun show loophole.

We deeply appreciate the courage and strength of the Virginia Tech families who lost loved ones on April 16th or who were injured. Many of them signed a powerful letter to Congress and joined us on Capitol Hill on the sixth-month anniversary of those shootings calling for the passage of this legislation. The efforts of all the families involved were critical to this victory.

Our special thanks go out to Representative Carolyn McCarthy and Senators Charles Schumer and Edward Kennedy for their leadership on this legislation.

Thank you again for your support and commitment to making America safe. Happy New Year! We’ve gotten off to a great start.
Sincerely,
Sarah's Signature [image]
Sarah Brady, Chair



If this e-mail was forwarded to you, click here to sign up for your own Brady Campaign alerts.

Donate to Support the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

You can also mail a check to:
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
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Post by Old Ironsights »

ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP

America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization

January 9th, 2008

JPFO ALERT: BETRAYAL BY YOUR "FRIENDS" IN CONGRESS


In the past JPFO has published harsh commentary about HR 2640.
We are not alone. We ask you to read this alert and share it with others.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A CALL TO ARMS - NATIONAL ACTION FOR THE 2nd AMENDMENT
WHEN: JANUARY 11TH 2008 12 PM (week of January 7th 2008)

WHERE: STATE CAPITOLS EVERYWHERE, THE WHITE HOUSE

WHY: STOP HR. 2640 AKA: THE VETERAN'S DISARMAMENT ACT 2008

In an unrecorded voice vote the gun grabbing bill once known at HR 297, HR 2640 also known as "The Veteran's Disarmament Act" by Pro 2nd Amendment grass roots organizations across America, passed, and will soon be on the way to President Bush for signature or veto.
The bill calls for a guilty before being proven innocent program of separating which Americans may realize the 2nd amendment and which may not. According to the bill any past, present, or future "thought crime" may threaten your right to purchase or own a firearm. Without a trial!

The core of the bill's problems is section 101(c)(1)(C), which makes you a "prohibited person" on the basis of a "medical finding of disability," so long as a citizen or veteran had an "opportunity" for some sort of "hearing" before some "lawful authority" (other than a court). Presumably, this "lawful authority" could even be the psychiatrist himself.

*Note that unlike with an accused murderer, the hearing doesn't have to occur. The "lawful authority" doesn't have to be unbiased. The citizen or veteran is not necessarily entitled to an attorney -- much less an attorney financed by the government. Children with past diagnosis for ADHD, People diagnosed with Alzheimer's, veterans dealing with PTSD and who seek psychiatric help, men and woman who are charged or suspected of domestic violence, and anyone currently under medication for psychiatric reasons what so ever... Are targets of HR 2640.

We are forcing people choose between what may be essential mental help and counseling, or their 2nd amendment rights.

Funding for implementation on a state level is based on a "secret formula" set by the US Attorney General in order for the states to obtain the funding necessary to pay for this very expensive data base.
We have alerted the public to the nascent no fly lists, the coming no work lists, now we must alert you to the no gun list. We have in effect become a nation of lists, in the order of Stalin's Russia, Hitler's Germany, or Mao's China. Unless we want to realize the communism, socialism, or fascism of these failed prison states, we must act NOW or lose everything the United States of America and its constitution stands for.

So where is the NRA in all of this? It was in fact the NRA that helped legislate this bill all along. They own this lock stock and barrel!
Here is what NRA spokesperson Rachel Parsons had to say about supporting HR 2640 with Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Frank Lautenberg, and Carolyn McCarthy: "We want a clean bill. If this becomes a Christmas tree of gun control, we will absolutely remove support from this bill" Three months later they did NOT remove support.

And this is exactly what we ended up with. A Rockefeller Center style Christmas tree lit up with more gun CONTROL than all previous gun control bills combined. Like thieves in the night, in a secret vote, with NO PUBLIC debate, with no mention by all but one of the Republican presidential candidates (that one is Ron Paul) with no coverage by the big 5 media companies, without a care for liberty and the Constitution... Our 2nd amendment rights have been put in the hands of George W. Bush.

Every indicator seems to show that Mr. Bush, an alleged conservative will sign this nightmarish bill.

We might have time to stop him and we certainly have time to let the president know that we want this bill vetoed until such a time when Americans can have a thoughtful debate on what we are getting into with HR 2640.

We have time, not much, to send a message to the Senate and Republican minority leader Mitch McConnell to reconsider sending this to the president, and we have the entire year to challenge each of the candidates running for president on where they stand on such a bill.
This is especially important if those running as sitting senators, and congressmen voted for this bill while posing as supporters of the right to keep and bear arms.

We ask you this week to call into radio talk shows, to write your newspapers, and television networks to ask them why they have not addresses this issue before their audiences, and where they stand on the issue. We ask you this week to ask all of the candidates for President in 2008 to clarify where they stand on the issue of 2640, have they read the bill, and did they support it yes or no! We ask you this week to call you senators and congresspersons, and the White House to tell them that you do NOT support 2640, or anyone who endorses it.

We ask you on Friday January 11th 2008 at 12 Noon in your time zone to go to your state capitols, halls of government, media outlets, and to the White House with signs, banners and leaflets to alert the public to HR 2640 and to ask for their help in stopping it. Our goal is to get media attention to get this bill before the public eye. WITHOUT YOUR HELP WE WILL LOSE!

If we do not do anything it won't be long before, on the smallest of pretexts, YOU will lose your rights to legally own a firearm, and it won't be long before like in the UK, the government will come for your butter knives.

If you would like more information on this subject, or would like to schedule an interview please contact Jack Blood at jackblood@hotmail.com

RESOURCES:
Gun Owners Get Stabbed In The Back - Veterans Disarmament Act on its way to the President http://www.gunowners.org/a122007.htm
(703)321-8585 Larry Pratt - Director
http://www.jpfo.org/

McCarthy and NRA ambush gun owners, sneak Gun Control through Senate and House http://nationalgunrights.org/alerts/200 ... ynra.shtml
(FULL TEXT OF THE BILL HERE) NAGR Phone: (888) 874-3006 - Dudley Brown
- Director

Sept 6th 2007 interview Jack Blood with Rachel Parson of the NRA:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4751235706
Jack Blood covers NRA backed Gun Control with Dudley Brown of NationalGunRights.org and Larry Pratt of GunOwners.org http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9496&hl=en

GEORGE W BUSH CONTACT INFO: BY PHONE - Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414 / FAX: 202-456-2461

MITCH McConnell's SENATE OFFICE, DC 361-A Russell Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 Phone: (202) 224-2541 Fax: (202)
224-2499 http://mcconnell.senate.gov/
http://mcconnell.senate.gov/contact_form.cfm email

Congressman RON PAUL'S action notice:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/gunowners/write-your-senator Sample Email Opposing HR 2640 Dear Senator [Senator's Name Here], I am very disappointed that the Senate Judiciary Committee passed out HR 2640 on and unrecorded vote, just as the House did. This bill will solve nothing but will expose hundreds of thousands of private medical records to organizations that have already proven they cannot be trusted to accurately deal with personal information. Furthermore, the liability that people face when accused of being mentally incompetent to own a firearm will discourage people with personal issues from seeking medical help. I strongly urge you to reject the Senate version of HR 2640. Very truly yours, [Your Name Here]

Send Emails to your appropriate Senator. Email forms for all Senators can be found at:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_i ... rs_cfm.cfm
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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Blackhawk
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Post by Blackhawk »

Yeah I got that in an email as well.

Lets all sit in a circle, hold hands and sing songs about how great it would be if guns were banned all together.

"We are the world, we are the children............

BLAH!
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Idahoser

Post by Idahoser »

:D
Last edited by Idahoser on Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JReed
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Post by JReed »

Idahoser your right they have done much to save the 2nd. I just feel a bit betrayed when they compromise on some thing as big as this. You cant tell me that most NRA members think this is a good thing. Am I against the NRA no they do great things for us. Am I disapointed heck yeah I am.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret

To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Idahoser wrote:This is hate speech. Stop it. We love the NRA. Our rights would already be gone if it wasn't for them.
You forgot the :roll: ...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Leverdude
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Post by Leverdude »

Nothing here thats not fact.
If the facts cause you to hate something, it might be deserved. :wink:

I'm not bashing the NRA at all anyway. Matter of fact I already made a call to tell them that The Brady Campaign failed to give us the recognition we deserved!

After all, I'm a member & I think everything the NRA gets accomplished should be commended. I wonder tho why I learned of it from so many other organizations first.
One would think that our organization should trumpet this success across the land. :roll:
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Post by old goat »

...It's a sad fact of life, that often, many people would not reconize the truth, even if it jumped up and bit them on the butt! :roll:


...old goat
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Post by J Miller »

Q&A On The Veterans Disarmament Act
-- How the new law will affect you and where we go from here

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Tuesday, January 8, 2008


As most Americans were preparing for the Christmas holidays last
month, the U.S. Congress pulled another fast one when only few people
were watching.

It was December 19. Most Congressmen had left town and were either
at the airport or in the air returning home. They weren't in
Washington, DC, because their party leadership had told them that all
the major votes were over... that the only legislative business left
related to non-controversial issues, such as when Congress would
return from Christmas break, etc.

But it was then, with most of the Congress gone, that the House and
Senate passed the Veterans Disarmament Act without a recorded vote.
It was a huge deja vu, as this was the method that a previous
Democratic Congress used -- together with compliant Republicans -- to
pass the original Brady Law in 1993.


WHO IS TO BLAME?

In the fury that resulted from this "fast one," many Americans have
wanted to blame the entire lot of them... all 535 congressmen. And,
to be sure, there is an extent to which they all share some blame.

But to be fair, no one congressmen can camp out on the floor of the
House or Senate chambers, every day, 24/7. It's a physical
impossibility, which is why members of each party rely on their
leadership to protect their interests and keep them informed. And
that's where the betrayal occurred.

No Unanimous Consent agreement can pass the House or Senate without
the leaders of both parties signing off. And on December 19, the
leaders of each party sent their members home for the Christmas
holidays, while forging Unanimous Consent agreements in each chamber.

As such, the immediate ire should be directed at the following
legislators: Democrats such as Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi
(D-CA) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV); Republicans such
as House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and Senate Minority
Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).

Obviously, the backers of the Veterans Disarmament Act should be held
to account, as well. Most of the lead sponsors were Democrats --
such as Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) and Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY).

But there were a few key Republicans who helped cosponsor the
legislation: Representatives Michael Castle (DE), Christopher Shays
(CT) and Lamar Smith (TX). And dishonorable mention goes to Tom
Price of Georgia who was physically present on the House floor on
December 19. It was Rep. Price who asked for the Unanimous Consent
agreement to pass the Veterans Disarmament Act without a vote.

Finally, many of you know that Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) held up the
bill in the Senate for several months. His intentions were laudable
as he desperately wanted to protect Second Amendment rights and cut
unconstitutional spending.

Unfortunately, not one pro-gun senator chose to stand with Coburn...
not one. In fact, GOA felt just as alone as Coburn did. While two
veterans groups (and several pro-gun state groups) sided with us, GOA
was the only pro-gun group at the federal level that actively fought
this legislation week after week, while another and bigger
organization was working behind the scenes to help pass the Veterans
Disarmament Act.

Standing alone, Senator Coburn decided to negotiate for a better
bill. GOA was asked for input and made a few contributions to the
bill, but not enough to justify support for the Veterans Disarmament
Act.

Add to this fact that GOA was prevented from seeing the final version
of the bill before the brokered Schumer-Coburn compromise was taken
to the floor under a Unanimous Consent agreement.

As a result, Senator Coburn spoke in favor of the compromise bill on
the floor of the Senate -- something that was a huge mistake, for
many of the glaring problems with the bill still remained untouched.

So chalk up a victory for Chuck Schumer... and for Carolyn McCarthy
as well, as she told CBS News, "This is the best Christmas present I
could ever receive."


WHAT DOES THE BILL DO IN GENERAL?

It would be a mistake to under-react -- or over-react -- to the
passage of the Veterans Disarmament Act. On the bad side, this bill
statutorily validates BATF regulations which could potentially disarm
millions of Americans. This is a VERY DANGEROUS turn of events which
will have huge ramifications over the next several decades.

The extent to which its unconstitutional potential will be realized
will be clear only over time -- and perhaps a long time -- and will
depend on whether pro-gunners or anti-gunners are in power. For
example, it took a full thirty years for language in the 1968 Gun
Control Act to be used to disarm veterans.

On the other hand, GOA was able to secure a few modest concessions
which should provide some protection to gun owners -- though NOT
NEARLY ENOUGH PROTECTION TO JUSTIFY SUPPORT of this bill.

So having said that, what are the implications of this legislation
for Americans with psychiatric diagnoses?

Although we succeeded in forcing the deletion of the ratification of
the BATF regulations, per se, section 101 (c) (1) (C) contains new
language which could make you a "prohibited person" (unable
to own a
gun) based solely on a medical finding (by a psychiatrist or
psychologist), provided:

* That you had "an opportunity for a hearing by a court, board,
commission or other lawful authority"; and

* In the future, that you had notice that you would be made a
"prohibited person" as a result of the agency action (section
101 (c)
(3)). [NOTE: This was added pursuant to negotiations over GOA's
objections to the bill.]

However, even these modest gains have severe limitations. Up to
140,000 veterans had their gun rights taken away as a result of a
diagnosis of a mental disorder such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
(PTSD). But this new law does not require two important things for
those 140,000 people:

1. The new law does not require that a veteran needed to have any
knowledge of the ramifications of the "diagnosis" in the past
-- and
the fact that this diagnosis could disarm him or her for life. How
many veterans suffering from PTSD simply went to Veterans Affairs,
hoping to get treatment, but now face a lifetime gun ban because of
the new law?

2. Also, the act does not require that the disarmed vets even knew
they had a right to appeal their diagnosis. Many of the 140,000
Americans who have now lost their Second Amendment rights first
received a letter from Veterans Affairs telling them that, due to
their diagnosis, a "guardian" was being appointed for them to
handle
their affairs. As stated above, how many vets realized that this
action would deem them as "mental defective" under the 1968 Gun
Control Act and strip them of their gun rights?

Moreover, how many vets realized they could challenge this action by
appealing the diagnosis? If they didn't realize the significance of
this VA letter, most likely, the vets did nothing, as they were more
concerned with getting the monetary benefits that such a diagnosis
would bring. But, whether they knew these things or not, this new
law would still validate the removal of their Second Amendment
rights.


HOW WILL THE BILL AFFECT ME?

If you have been subject to a psychological or psychiatric diagnosis,
the following may be helpful:

* A diagnosis by your private doctor -- with no government
involvement -- will probably cause you no problems.

* The biggest danger remains the danger for veterans. Although the
language of this bill could conceivably disarm adults who were
diagnosed as kids with ADHD in connection with the IDEA program,
seniors on Medicare with Alzheimers, etc., we know of no active
efforts to disarm persons in these cases -- yet.

* The likelihood that new classes of people will be disarmed will be
directly related to the ease of accomplishing this though a computer
keyboard. If your file exists only on microfiche in a dusty basement
cabinet, you are relatively safe for now -- although, keep in mind,
the new law calls for monies to be spent on collecting and updating
records like this.

* Obviously, the question of whether a gun hater or Second Amendment
supporter is in the White House on January 20, 2009, will have a lot
to do with how vigorously this new statute is enforced.


WHAT CAN I DO IF I'M ILLEGITIMATELY PROHIBITED FROM BUYING A GUN?

In the unlikely event that you can get your diagnosis "set aside,"
"expunged," or found to no longer exist, you can regain your
rights.
[See section 101(c)(1)(A)&(B).]

The McClure-Volkmer "relief from disabilities" provisions
which have
been blocked by sponsor Schumer for 15 years have been reinstated and
expanded -- so that they will now exist in the broader range of state
and federal agencies which this bill will allow to make you a
prohibited person. Pursuant to negotiations over GOA's objections,
we were able to secure very modest improvements which:

* Would allow you to sue to get your rights restored if the agency
sat on your appeal for 365 days;

* Would allow you to get your legal fees if you prevail against the
agency in court;

* Would prevent Schumer from defunding these efforts in the same way
he defunded McClure-Volkmer -- by requiring the 3% of state funds
under this bill be used for these "relief from disabilities"
programs.

But here's the major loophole in all of this. What minimal gains
were granted by the "right hand" are taken away by the
"left."
Section 105 provides a process for some Americans diagnosed with
so-called mental disabilities to get their rights restored in the
state where they live. But then, in subsection (a)(2), the bill
stipulates that such relief may occur only if "the person will not be
likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the
GRANTING OF THE RELIEF WOULD NOT BE CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST."
(Emphasis added.)

This language sounds similar to those state codes (like California's)
that have "may issue" concealed carry laws -- where citizens
"technically" have the right to carry, but state law only says that
sheriffs MAY ISSUE them a permit to carry. When given such leeway,
those sheriffs usually don't grant the permits!

As we have predicted before: liberal states -- the same states that
took these people's rights away -- will treat almost every person who
has been illegitimately denied as a danger to society and claim that
granting relief would be "contrary to the public interest."


WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

GOA is devising strategies with House and Senate members to restore
veterans' rights. Please stay tuned.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very nicely orchestrated bit of treachery there. Waite till most of congress has gone then pass it by unrecorded voice vote.

Between the republicrats and the NRA, we'll all be defenseless within the the next 10 years.

Our government is broke men, we need to fix it.

Hate speech Idahoser? Not at all, it's the truth and we have the right (at least for now) to speak it. Sorry if you can't see or hear it.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Post by DDude »

I wonder if it's just a matter of time before this is twisted and warped to keep arms out of the hands of all former military, regardless of mental health.

I know if I were a young person intent on military service I'd think twice about joining now knowing that any action I see in the future with subsequent mental issues afterwards could bar me from my 2A rights after leaving military service.
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Post by J Miller »

My bet is most people don't even know about it now. They haven't paid attention, they don't read the alerts from the pro-gun orgs and some day they'll find out the hard way, they no longer have rights.

And then there are those that are brainwashed to believing this is a good thing.

Sadly I've seen this coming a bit at a time since 1968. I'll live to see the end of guns in the U.S. ..... 'er legal guns at any rate.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Post by Swampman »

And then there are the facts..........

The NICS Improvement Bill: Myth and Reality

Some opponents of the “NICS Improvement Amendments Actâ€
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~

"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
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Post by Old Ironsights »

I see someone is till working for the Brady/NRA PR firm...

and incapable of posting anything different than the spin he posted before...

But hey, we all know that

The Brady Bunch,
U.S. Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY),
U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY)
...and the NRA.

are right &

All these folks, opposing H.R. 2640 are wrong:

The American Legion
The Order of the Purple Heart (opposed to H.R. 2640 because it will harm veterans)

Gun Owners of America
National Association for Gun Rights
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
National Association for Gun Rights
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners
GrassRoots North Carolina
GrassRoots South Carolina
Oregon Firearms Federation
Wisconsin Gun Owners
Virginia Citizens Defense League
Virginia Gun Owners Coalition
New Hampshire Firearms Coalition
Alan Korwin (author of Gun Laws of America)
Jeff Knox of The Firearms Coalition
US Rep. Ron Paul (R, TX)
Sen. Tom Coburn (R, OK)
Sen. Jim DeMint (R, SC)

Yeah, we's all crazy. :roll:
Last edited by Old Ironsights on Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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Post by Hobie »

Swampman,

We've seen the posting of the official NRA stuff before. One can go to the NRA site for it. It didn't add a thing.

The truth is that the NRA negotiated without publicizing it until they got noticed then began the sales job. They had a lot of opposition right from the get go from people inside and outside the organization and from state affiliated groups and members of those groups.

Here in VA the redefinition of ajudication to involuntary committment to an outpatient facility or treatment is a big goal because of the passage of this law would in fact make those so committed permanently prohibited from firearm ownership. It IS a problem.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Post by Swampman »

Don't be a looney, don't lose your guns. Seems simple enough.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~

"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Swampman wrote:Don't be a looney, don't lose your guns. Seems simple enough.
Only if you are so simple that you won't take the time to understand what the law SAYS, and what it CAN do, rather than what the NRA/Brady shills say it will do... :roll:
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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Post by AJMD429 »

Lyndon Johnson said something like "You do not examine legislation in the light of how it would be administered by an honest government acting in good faith, but rather how it would be administered by a corrupt, dishonest one." THAT is the real potential problem - the future unintended consequences for which we set the stage.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

AJMD429 wrote:Lyndon Johnson said something like "You do not examine legislation in the light of how it would be administered by an honest government acting in good faith, but rather how it would be administered by a corrupt, dishonest one." THAT is the real potential problem - the future unintended consequences for which we set the stage.
See my sig.

1967 NRA President Harlon Carter said it well. Then someone else took over and we got GCA 68.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
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ScottT
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Post by ScottT »

Don't fall for the alarmist propaganda. You are smarter than this.
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Old Ironsights
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ScottT wrote:Don't fall for the alarmist propaganda. You are smarter than this.
Constructive Possession Scott. Constructive Possession.

It's not alarmist.

You know what it is and how it is, and can be, used.

Imagine it being used by an anti-gun AG.

Why give them the opportunity?
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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Swampman
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Post by Swampman »

"Don't fall for the alarmist propaganda. You are smarter than this."

I would hope so.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~

"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
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Old Ironsights
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Post by Old Ironsights »

I guess Sen. Coburn is pretty dumb too:

[quote]Sen. Coburn sent a pointed letter to officials at the Department of Veterans Affairs, asking them to justify their actions. Coburn states that Veterans Affairs continues to send the names of “approximately 1,000 additional veteransâ€
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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Swampman
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Post by Swampman »

"I'm a paranoid crank."

Well, at least we agree on something.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~

"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
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