OT: Interesting old gun

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:10 pm

Just saw this for sale. It's a Martini Enfield - started out as a .577/450, was converted to .303 in the late 1890s and is now a .410 shotgun.

Do you think this would lend itself for use as a smoth-bore musket with cartridges made up on brass cases? Seems like it could be an interesting project......??

model55 · Post by **model55** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:22 pm

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_thing ... shot-shell Figured you might just have a lot of .303 laying around

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:26 pm

I would use a paper patch load to allow a bit of clearence to the bore. The action is strong enough for smokeless loads equal to black powder , but don't try to hotrod it. 303 cartridges didn't blow it up, but it's still a 100 year old gun.

holahead · Post by **holahead** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:50 pm

Thats cool. I like that.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:50 am

303 cordite loads did not blow the action. Its very strong. The old 577/450 round was very similar to the old Springfield loads in 45/70. With respect to velocity/pressure etc. So keep that in mind and you wont go far wrong. In Australia there is a keen following for the 450/577 cartridge out of the old Martini Henry actions, they use smokeless powders and a 400g bullet. The charge being 37 grains of AR2207 for about 1400FPS. AR2207 being close to H4198 Reloader 7 or IMR 4198. Would like to pick one of these up myself one day. The action is strong, but if in doubt seek advice. Gunsmiths advice seems sound. Do some more research.
Theres plenty on the net on this action.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:20 am

holahead wrote:Thats cool. I like that.

+1 the Martini action is on my wish-list!

model55 · Post by **model55** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:41 pm

I always heard that you could use 410's in a 45-70 if that is so couldn't you use the 45-70 cases in a 410?Also one of the russian brands made 410s with brass cases but I would assume with berdan primers-had a few laying around will have to look.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:56 pm

Why would you want a shotgun that long, heavey and ugly. Cost a fortune to go back to a rifle.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:48 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote:Why would you want a shotgun that long, heavey and ugly. Cost a fortune to go back to a rifle.

Ugly, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder

Going back to a rifle is not what I have in mind as per my original post. I see this as a collector piece that I would shoot occasionally as a .410 musket using bullets rather than shot.

Here's some info on the .410 slug cartridges:
http://www.barking-moonbat.com/index.ph ... the_lines/
http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/index.html

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:51 pm

model55 wrote:I always heard that you could use 410's in a 45-70 if that is so couldn't you use the 45-70 cases in a 410?Also one of the russian brands made 410s with brass cases but I would assume with berdan primers-had a few laying around will have to look.

I will look at that possibility.
.303 Brit and .444 Marlin are definitely options.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:07 pm

JP you haven't been bitten by the Military surplus bug yet?!!That heavy ugly rifle as you call it has history that you will not get out of a new store bought rifle.Also it is kind of on topic as it has a lever

.I have to admit a bias so cannot to be too hard on you.I also am afflicted by the martini bug.Plus where Bruce is at things are a bit tougher then here as far as firearms go-something I see going on here in Kaleforkneeya every day now.Just my .02.Haven't seen you post here before so welcome!

model55 · Post by **model55** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:11 pm

Good links Bruce!

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:38 pm

Can you post pictures of both action sides showing the stamps? The manufacturer's stamps will tell a great deal.

There are a number of "Khyber Pass" copies out there & it isn't advisable to shoot them.

An interesting M-H site:
www.martinihenry.com/

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:12 pm

If it's not a copy, then you could shoot .410 slugs, or have the barrel relined to a blackpowder caliber. They make a great shooter in .38-55, when relined!

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:17 pm

Glad to have ya back Vall, a 38-55 would be a sweet shooter in that rifle.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:42 pm

Ray Newman wrote:Can you post pictures of both action sides showing the stamps? The manufacturer's stamps will tell a great deal.

There are a number of "Khyber Pass" copies out there & it isn't advisable to shoot them.

An interesting M-H site:
http://www.martinihenry.com/

Unfortunatley the gun is on the other side of the country from me. These are the only photos I have so far.
This shows the left side with the conversion cypher. I am awaiting further pics and info.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:10 pm

So has anything become of this yet? real liked the links you showed.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:46 pm

model55 wrote:So has anything become of this yet? real liked the links you showed.

Sadly, nothing at all to date. The seller has not responded to my Emails for further information.

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