45 Colt velocity / effectiveness

[deerwhacker444]

I've been doing a little shooting lately with my 45 Blackhawk that I acquired a few months ago. I think I've settled on a load combo, but I wanted to get your opinion anyhow.

I've been shooting this cast bullet from Hunters Supply. It is supposed to have a BHn of 15. I am fairly new to shooting cast, all my kills have been with jacketed bullets.



In front of 13.5 gr. of Bluedot, this bullet is averaging 937 fps out of my handgun. This combination seems to be accurate enough for my needs and recoil is manageable. I dug these bullets out of wet clay and I was surprised at how little they expanded.



I am by no means a pistolero, but I do like the idea of carrying this pistol during deer season just in case a deer wanders in to within 30 yards or so.

Understanding that shot placement is everything, will this load combo humanely dispatch a deer sized critter? I have no feel for how much velocity is actually needed to punch thru the vitals of a deer sized animal. I know I can zing an arrow thru them at 250 fps, but that's apples and oranges. I DO NOT want to wound and lose an animal because I was shooting a whimpy load. I know a .45" hole is fairly large and a bullet that large shouldn't need to expand much to get the job done

I remember reading on here, maybe it was Terry Murbach, who made a bunch of meat one time with a pistol that was shooting 800-900 fps but I don't remember any distances.

What do you think, is this powerful enough to get the job done?

[Chuck 100 yd]

If the accuracy is there they will get the job done at the speeds you are getting.

[AJMD429]

No expansion needed; even the "puny" little 0.429" .44 Mags I shoot go right through the deer, hardly deforming (unless they hit bone, then all heck breaks loose).

They do fine at 1500-1800 fps which is about what I think I get from the carbine, but maybe 1000-1200 fps from the handgun (I'm guessing - haven't chrono'd them) seems to drop them reliably without any difference I can see in the field or when field dressing them.

I've shot maybe 80 yards maximum with the handgun; velocity probably much slower 'out there', but still did the job.

In other words, my opinion would be that if you can hit a large grapefruit at xyz distance, then you should be able to use that load to drop a deer humanely at xyz distance, unless you're an incredibly good shot and can hit a grapefruit over 100 yards away...!

[mescalero1]

Yep,
My half brother has an old model Ruger in Colt, things shot with it get dead.

[adirondakjack]

That kinda velocity is what I'd call a "hole puncher" that will penetrate very well and not expand a bit. Bullets recovered out of snow after passing through a water jug could be reloaded The good news is IF ya need a fast follow-up, that mid-range load makes a second shot easy with little time lag. In yer BH, run a good JHP like an XTP at say 1200 to 1300 fps with H110, 2400, or 4227 and ya have a DEVASTATING expander, but recoil goes up quite a bit.....

[NonPCnraRN]

Keep the same velocity and bullet weight and change to a WFN (wide flat nose). Beartooth bullets makes a WFN in that weight and has a bigger meplat (flat part of bullet nose). A 44 cal bullet and a 45 cal bullet with the same size meplat at the same velocity will make the same size wound channel. With non expanding bullets it is the size of the meplat and striking velocity that determine wound size. The round nose flat point has a .32" meplat while the WFN has a .36" meplat. Their 280 gr Sledgehammer has a .37" meplat. Keeping the velocity the same this would be the bullet to use although you would experience a little more recoil. There is an article on that bullet with loading data I believe.
http://beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/ ... ght.htm/19 Also have the cylinder throats reamed to .4525 by cas @ http://www.cylindersmith.com/ Ruger 45 Colt cylinder throats are notorious for being undersized, sometimes drastically. Reaming them to .4525" will keep the lead bullets from being swaged down before entering the forcing cone, but will also ensure that they will be of uniform size.

[Saz]

NonPCnraRN + 1!!!

It is the size of the meplat that does the most damage in a critter. For example, the bear load I carry in my 44 mag is a 355gr LFN with a meplat of .360, and it only moves out at 1050 fps from my 4 5/8" barrel SBH. WHAT A PENETRATOR!!! WHEW!!! It is still nice and mild in the recoil department so my wife can shoot it accurately if she has to. More of a big push than a sharp sting.

[w30wcf]

NonPCnraRN + 1!!!
It is the size of the meplat that does the most damage in a critter.......

+1

Personally, I would use a bullet with a larger meplat (front diameter). The Keith style semi wadcutter and the LBT style molds would be my preference.
Hunter Supply:
Keith Style

LBT type


Best of luck with your hunt.

w30wcf

[2row]

Well my 2 cents worth is not worth much BUT if you can hit a deer in the right place don't worry about the bullet any cast bullet from a 45 colt will kill deer right now right there. Voice of experance? maby. I have killed lots of them with a 357 an cast .

[Catshooter]

A Brinnell hardness of 15 is fairly hard. I would not expect expansion in a critter. You will get penetration, even at that velocity. With that size meplat you probably won't recover a bullet from a deer.

A larger meplat would be better (from a killing point of view) but I would think the bullet you've got will do the work. You certainly don't need more velocity.

Good luck!


Cat

[Kansas Ed]

Good Post...so if I may ask the question?

Does the membership think that a JHP gives up too much penetration at the 900fps due to expansion, and the cast perform better on deer sized game? I'm contemplating using a SAA this year for close work, and am torn between cast and Speer Gold Dots.

Thanks,
Ed

[JimT]

Good Post...so if I may ask the question?

Does the membership think that a JHP gives up too much penetration at the 900fps due to expansion, and the cast perform better on deer sized game? I'm contemplating using a SAA this year for close work, and am torn between cast and Speer Gold Dots.

Thanks,
Ed

I ain't speaking for "the membership" Ed ... just my experience. I have used the Sierra 240 gr. JHP at that velocity. All shots I have taken were broadside or mostly so. All dropped right there, though at least one was not dead and required a finisher. It just never moved from where it was.

[NonPCnraRN]

Good Post...so if I may ask the question?

Does the membership think that a JHP gives up too much penetration at the 900fps due to expansion, and the cast perform better on deer sized game? I'm contemplating using a SAA this year for close work, and am torn between cast and Speer Gold Dots.

Thanks,
Ed

If you limit your shots to broadside heart/lung shots you should be OK. The reason for large bore, heavy bullets with a large meplat is that you can take a less than ideal shot and know that the bullet will plow through bone and tissue to get to the vital organs. Also on broadside shots, one hole in and one hole out will cause an animal to bleed out faster leaving a larger blood trail if tracking is necessary. At 900 fps the hollowpoint may not expand at all acting like a solid. The width of the hollowpoint will act as a meplat of the same size. Penn made some 45 cal Thunderheads that had a meplat of .443, that means that the flat part of the bullet is larger than a 44 cal bullet is in diameter. Unfortunately they are currently out of production. Now in CA a whole other can of worms was created when bullets containing lead where banned in the CA Condor habitat range. We have to shoot all copper bullets. Barnes makes a 225 gr hollowpoint all copper bullet. I just purchased some 260 gr Northfork cup pointed solids that act like hardcast bullets except the cup point flattens at an impact velocity of 1200 or greater and increases the size of the meplat but doesn't open up like a Barnes hollowpoint. They are CNC machined from solid copper and have numerous grooves machined into the base to decrease pressure and increase velocity. They are all identical and perfect as they are CNC machined. They are expensive at $85/50 bullets but I don't plan on plinking with them. I will practice with lead bullets of the same weight. If you compare the price of a premium bullet like Northfork in relation to the total cost of a hunt, they aren't that expensive. I like knowing that the meplat flattens at 1200 fps from 0.34" to greater than .045" and will plow through an animal like a hardcast lead bullet. They would be great in a 45 Colt carbine and will stand up to 454 velocities.

[Buck Elliott]

Barnes also makes a great 250-gr. HP .45-cal. bullet that does wonders from a Pistol OR Rilfe. Does tend to open up and stop somewhere inside a critter at 1400 fps or so, but the wound channel is awesome...