question - shooting groups

[_n4z_]

I need info on how much time is typically adequate between shots, for a 5 shot string with a lever. (Marlin336W in .30wcf, micro groove)

Been reloading for it and am really having a bear of a time getting acceptable groups. Do not suffer this issue with milsurp bolt actions, even with 10 shot groups. Been using both Speer and Hornady rounds, both 150 and 170gr, and have experimented with H4895, RL15 and IMR3031. Shoot at 100 yards, stock open sights. Best I've managed was a 3 shot group at 7/8", but that is way far from the norm. Usual groups land in the 4" range and greater.

Have checked barrel bands tightness, etc.. Just not cuttin' the mustard here. Really now thinking I may be shooting too fast.

Any help/input is greatly appreciated.

[madman4570]

From a clean gun try 5 mins apart! then wait 10 mins. and then clean it-- try 3 mins apart! Wait 15 mins. and then clean it-- try 1 min apart.

For only 5 rds from a cool barrel 5 rds should not make that much difference.At least with my .35 rem it doesnt?

[1886]

Welcome! Hope to hear more from you. A 3 shoot group is much more practical from a hunting gun. A 2 shot group will probably tell you all you need to know about your rifle and your loads. What is the last time one "got off" 3 rounds at a game animal? I know it happens but it must be quite rare. If you do shoot 3 shot groups, shot them as quickly as you can aim and loose those rounds, just as you would while actually hunting. Best Wishes, 1886.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I agree with 1886. I shoot as fast as my sights are comfortably back on the target and I can get my old eyes to see the front sight clearly. That is for short bursts of 3 or 5 shots. I shoot 3 shot groups from hunting rifles to test my hunting loads.

" Hay there buck, stand right there for 5 min. until my barrel cools" !!!

[1886]

A 4" group at 100yrds. is more than adequate for large game hunting. The typical whitetail has approx. an 8"/pie plate size vital area. Your rifle and your loads seem more than fine. It is quite possible your rifle is capable of "better" groups. Improving the accuracy of your rifle/ammo would be quite the detailed conversation. We would need much more info. God Bless, 1886.

[AJMD429]

I usually test the gun by putting a high-magnification scope on it temporarily so THAT factor (sighting) is removed, and shoot off a weighted rest. Then I know what the GUN is capable of with that ammo.

After that, what sights I mount and how I use the gun depend on the results of that testing, as well as the type of gun it is, but at least I know how much confidence to have that if it isn't hitting accurately it is the gun, vs. me or the choice of ammo.

[JerryB]

Are you shooting off a bench with sandbags or off hand? Sometimes bench shooting on sandbags can throw the groups off if you hold a levergun down real tight.

[_n4z_]

Thanks for the responses so far.

Hunting the best 30-30 load for this rifle is my quest here, not deer. Shooting off a concrete bench, butt in shoulder, front stock in hand, hand resting on sandbag.

The scope idea might be doable. Also thinkng about going with some Skinner peeps, or atleast the front sight blade. I have a set of Skinners on a Marlin 1894c, which shoots very well.

[KirkD]

When I'm developing a load for one of my old Winchesters, I like to shoot 5 shots to see how consistent the accuracy is. I can shoot lots of 3-shot groups with nary a flyer, but if a 5-shot group has no flyers, then I know that's a good load. To shoot a 5-shot group, I usually start with a cold barrel and fire 3 shots at a target 100 yards away. Then I take a walk down to the target and take a look then walk back. I then take 2 more shots. Most of the time, however, I see no difference between that method, and just taking 5 shots from a cold barrel. Sometimes, I'll take 10 shots in a row. Then I can see some downward creep, especially with some rifles that have then barrel walls. The heavy octagon barrels can take a lot more heat.

[Hobie]

I find that if shooting off bags it is best to rest the receiver on the bag, not the forearm. I wouldn't use one of those mechanical rests that are sold in gunshops. They aren't designed for the levergun. Mostly I shoot off my elbows. Works well and zero will not change when I go to field positions to practice.

[adirondakjack]

Ya don't say if the groups are dispersed or stringing. If stringing, try loading the gun one at a time, not through the mag. At least ya will eliminate the weight of the rounds changing as the mag depletes.

I suspect ya may not be seeing the sights well enough to do better. Try a hacked together hood over the front sight if it isn't hooded (a cardboard or plastic tube and some tape), and try an "X" of 2" wide tape as a target. The eye centers well on an "X".

[COSteve]

Deleted

[Pete44ru]

And,.................. remember that leverguns are not target rifles.

The "best load" should be a direct comparison of loads with the size group they shoot into - whether they all shoot into 2"', 3" or 5" - and not dependant upon the exact size of any one group.

The "best" load should most likely be the one that shoots smaller relative groups of whatever size than the other loads - AND one that will consistantly put it's first shot (point of impact/POI) into the point of aim/POA.

.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have been using COSteve`s trick now for over 20 years with open sights on rifles and ML`s. An adjustable aperture does the trick on tang and receiver mounted sights.

I used to make up those tape apertures and stick them on a piece of plastic in my shooting box. Always a new one handy that way. Merit makes one that goes on the shooting glasses with a little suction cup. I have never been without one for over 20 years.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8767 ... ATTACHMENT

WOW !! I think I paid about $35 for mine. The times they are a changin!