I have a .45-70/.444 Marlin dillema

Win94 · Post by **Win94** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:10 am

Fellas, i have a stainless .45-70 guidegun with scout mount and XS ghost ring. I now have a Marlin .444s coming and am thinking for all intensive purposes, do i need both?? The Marlin will sport a Nikon 2-7x32 compact with quick release rings and will perform 200 yard shots with my handloads and with the quick release rings i can detach the scope for dogging bush. It will do both jobs next fall. To me the diff. is splittin hairs when it comes to comparing both calibers performance wise. What do you think???

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:18 am

Having owned several different examples of both calibers, over the years, I can tell you this:

A .45-70 can/will do everything a .444 can/will, but a .444 cannot do everything that a .45-70 can.

Win94 · Post by **Win94** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:00 am

Don't lose sight of the fact though that i am talking about a .45-70 with an 18.5" barrel and a .444 with a 22" barrel.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:23 am

I agree with Pete44ru's assessment, strictly speaking in terms of power.
The question remains; what will you use it for?
Personally, I could win a bet that I will never intentionally seek out a grizzly bear, a cape buffalo, a hippo, a polar bear, an elephant, a lion, a tiger, or a tyrannosaurus rex to shoot. If I did, I'd probably want at least a .416 Rigby anyway. Knowing this, while I admire the power potential of the .45-70, I know the .444 would be absolutely deadly on anything else I might pursue or encounter. Also, it could use some of the same bullets I now load in my .44 mag SBH, so I'd be ahead on bullet casting chores.
Just my .02

.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:23 am

I'm with Pete44ru 100%. In a way, comparing the 444/45-70 is like comparing the 41 mag/44 mag. The 44 mag. will do everything the 41 can plus a lot more when you factor in the 300 gr. bullets for the 44.

Those 4 inches of barrel length are not going to matter a whole lot.-------Sixgun

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:38 am

What does *NEED* have to do with it?

Personally the stainless guide gun is my favorite of the two.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:44 am

Paco has already shed some light here....

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:49 am

Paco also addresses heavy bullets in the .41 magnum, in case anyone's interested in 300 grain bullets....

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/41heavy.htm

bluesman423 · Post by **bluesman423** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:13 am

Obvious to me is the fact that the ONLY reason to own ANY gun is because you want it. Period. I don't care if you want matching Guide Guns in stainless and blue. If you WANT both of them then get both.

I say keep them both until such time as it becomes clear you want to get rid of one or both. No justification needed other than you want them.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:13 am

To all intents and purposes, you should have both. Need simply has nothing to do with it. If need was the thing they could issue us all a 12 ga./.30-30 H&R Combo plus one .22 LR rifle at birth and be done with it. As pointed out, bullet weight is the big difference, barrel length makes nearly no difference at all.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:31 am

If you WANT both of them then get both.

To all intents and purposes, you should have both. Need simply has nothing to do with it.

What does *NEED* have to do with it?

The implication in Win94's question is that he wants to pick ONE to use.

His question, "do I need both" really asks if he will be short on power if he chooses the .444.

In comparing the .45-70 and the .444, Paco says, "Either one with the right load, will cleanly take any living creature on earth ."

The answer is, no, you don't need both. The .444 will not leave you short on power.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:38 am

If I was in the market for a big bore rifle and already had a .44 mag handgun, I'd probably opt for the .444 since the bullets (not the cartridges) are the same for both.

Also, if with handloads your guide gun can handle 200 yard shots, maybe the .444 can handle 300 yard shots. It certainly would be fun coming up with a handload capable of it.

Win94 · Post by **Win94** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:41 am

Definitley don't want to be undergunned.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:47 am

I think the 45-70 has a big power advantage over the 444 and the 444 has a small trajectory advantage. Each will probably do almost anything you want of that class of rifle. Depending on your reloading equipment, if you reload, the 444 may be more convenient to load for.

Win94 · Post by **Win94** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:18 am

I load for both. I owned a .444 in the past i should never have sold.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:25 pm

Win94 wrote:I load for both. I owned a .444 in the past i should never have sold.

Then you shouldn't sell this one either!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:09 pm

IMO, the .444 is more efficient with 300gr and less and the 45-70 300 and heavier. A 45-70 with a good 500+ grain hardcast is adequate for anything on earth (not the best, but adequate...Mr Garrett's hardcast Hammerhead loads have taken every DG on earth)

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:23 pm

500 gr??? Wow, that hits at both ends!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:28 pm

homefront wrote:500 gr??? Wow, that hits at both ends!

Does not kick too much at all....less than a Federal factory 300gr load!!

Grizz needs to check in on this, it's his load, but I believe this was a 27,000 load and it chronied about 1390fps out of my BFR and was very easy to shoot. A very potent round and one I might use for hunting in my BFR

AndyM · Post by **AndyM** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:37 pm

While I do not own a 444 - all I can say is... I cannot imagine being without a 45-70 in my safe - so far it is a guide gun, but hopefully soon a Sharps (around tax return time), then maybe a Ruger #1, then possibly a trapdoor, OH the fun of it....

LGS · Post by **LGS** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:59 pm

I have both. I use my 444 alot more then the 45-70. Just my prefrence. Keep both, you will regret selling either one.

Win94 · Post by **Win94** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:33 pm

I have a feeling your right.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:40 pm

Had both, sold both, bought both again. Like having both.

Montanan · Post by **Montanan** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:18 pm

I have both, one has its purpose as the other one has its purpose.

tman · Post by **tman** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:40 pm

both will take anything that walks in front of it. it's been done enough with the .357&.44 magnum, out of revolvers. if you can hit anything in the vitals, it will die. years ago, a gunwriter made a statement that went, "people who hunt with the 30-30 don't read gun magazines." don't know whether to take it as a compliment or insult. i have both also.

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:27 pm

seems to me there is a big overlap between both calibers
in bullets from 250 gr to 350 gr with the 444 being able to shoot
pistol bullets much lighter and the 45/70 able to shoot up to 500 grain.

In the 350-350 grain overlap range both could be hand loaded to do
essentially the same thing. I do like the versatility of the 444 to
be able to shoot 15- 180 80 gr pistol rounds at any power level you choose
including a blistering fast light weight load for varmint shooting
and if I was already hand loading for a 44 mag pistol, no question
I would go for the 444 and dump the 45/70.

.

edsguns · Post by **edsguns** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:54 pm

If you never hunt anything that bites back, the .444 will suit you just fine. The new LE 265gr rounds have added to an already significant head start in trajectory over the 45-70. Of course, if teeth and fur are figured into the equation in very large portions, the 45-70 and it's additional bullets available, including "X" bullets up to 400gr makes it a very impressive "friend". To be honest....I'd keep 'em both!....lol