45 Colt

[Marlin32]

Not new to this forum as I have read many posts, but newly registered.
I have some questions about the 45 Colt for Deer/deer sized game.

In Nebraska, 900ft-lbs of energy at 100yds is required for gun to be legal for deer.
That did my .357 Marlin in as a deer weapon.

I find it very difficult to find much information about down range energy of 45 Colt rounds from a rifle.

There seem to be some 45 colt Experts on this forum and I would appreciate some schooling on the round. Most importantly, a legal deer weapon.

I do not currently reload rifle ammo, but may if necessary.

[Hobie]

If they, Nebraska regs, go by factory ballistics only you might have problems unless you use Buffalo Bore ammo.

[RKrodle]

Marlin32,
I'm by no means a expert but it can be done pretty easy if you hand load or use some of the company's like Grizzly, Buffalo Bore,etc. A 250 grain Hornady XTP traveling at 1675 fps muzzle velocity with a Ballistic Coefficient of .146 gives you 918 fpe at 100 yards. A great program to play with is called Point Blank, google it and you can down load it for free.

[Old Savage]

Well now I just worked this out this AM for what I call Tutt's Super Loads. 340 gr bullet at approx. 1350 fps from a 20 Rossi. Still going about 1150 fps at 100 yds, Comes in just about 1000 ft lbs. at 100 according to the Speer manual. Quite accurate in my rifle - center group at 50 yds. At about 3.5 high at 50 yds it is also about 3.5 high at 100 yds and just a bit lower than that at 150 yds.

He can tell you the load - I think it is 18.5 gr of H110 and the bullet to order and where to get it.

[Old Savage]

As Hobie mentioned - http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=8

[Marlin32]

Thanks. That is a good start but now feeding into my hunger for a new 45 Colt rifle.
Would really like the pre-cross bolt Marlin in 45 Colt

I have some Cor-bon ammo that I have for Ruger, but then I have no idea if it meets criteria of Energy at 100yds.

I saw another post with some good info. Tests on penetration and such. The 265gr A-frames, and partitions seemed to be the ticket.

[Bosco]

Marlin32,
This article by Paco may be of interest to you if you have not yet read it.
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

[CowboyTutt]

340 gr bullet at approx. 1350 fps from a 20 Rossi

Old Savage, you may have had a simple typo but the bullets are actually 360 grain Keith bullets with a gas check. They are a non-cataloged item from Mt. Baldy Bullets. These are NOT the same as the 360 grain Keith bullets listed on the web page and you will need to ask for them by phone.

Thanks for doing all that figuring on trajectory and energy. Very interesting! I suspect the heavier bullet weight gives the cartridge a little more range. I'm still going to be doing some load develoment on this combination and will let you know what works best in my guns when I'm done.

-Tutt

[J Miller]

Thanks. That is a good start but now feeding into my hunger for a new 45 Colt rifle.
Would really like the pre-cross bolt Marlin in 45 Colt

I have some Cor-bon ammo that I have for Ruger, but then I have no idea if it meets criteria of Energy at 100yds.

I saw another post with some good info. Tests on penetration and such. The 265gr A-frames, and partitions seemed to be the ticket.

Marlin32,
Unfortunately the .45 Colts were introduced after the cross bolt safety. So the only way to get one without is to have one custom built. That's why the Clyde Ludwig safety replacement is so popular.

Joe

[HEAD0001]

Do not forget to take a long look at the Low Wall in 45 Colt. I really like mine. I hve been ablke to get my 1885's to shoot a little more accurately than my Marlin 1894's. But there truly is not much difference when you consider we are talking about hunting accuracy.

I really like my 1894's. And mine will digest the heavier(longer) bullets. But I have seen a couple of them that would not function the longer bullet. However my 1894's are in 44 magnum, not 45 Colt.

I also think you can load the Low Wall up a little hotter if need be. But as the other guys have said. You can get to where you need to be.

I like the feel of the Marlin, but I really like the handling of the Low Wall. IT just "feels" right in my hands. Tom.

[Pete44ru]

[I have some Cor-bon ammo that I have for Ruger, but then I have no idea if it meets criteria of Energy at 100yds.]

My box Cor-Bon .45 Colt +P 200gr JHP box label says "Velocity 1100fps Energy 537/lbs" - I would presume taken at some muzzle, but I dunno bbl length.

If the factory specs are from a short bbl/handgun, I wouldn't think they'd almost double in a rifle.

.

[O.S.O.K.]

http://www.huntingnut.com/index.php?nam ... icle&sid=3

That's the link to the Point Blank download page - thanks Ricky for that lead.

I think you can achieve 900 ft pounds at 100 yards with either your .357 or a 45 Colt ( or a 44 Mag ) Marlin with handloads.

1) .357mag, 158 gold dot bullet, 1800 fps = 1137 ft pounds at the muzzle (should be above 900 at 100 yards)
2) 45 Colt, 300 grain XTP, 1400 fps = 1306 ft pounds at the muzzle
3) 44 Mag, 300 grain XTP, 1500 fps = 1499 ft pounds at the muzzle (there's your load) - that's with 21 grains of H110

Don't believe what you read about the Marlin 44's not likeing 300 grain bullets - I just tested my (new to me) Marlin 44mag with that exact load and it gave me a 2 3/8", 3 shot group at 100 yards - with a big aperture sight (XS) which is not the most precise.

FWIIW

[Mike Rintoul]

Our 300 and 335 gr loads will meet the requirements for deer hunting. You can also purchase these bullets and I will give you handload data that will get you close to my factory loads but will still be legal for what you want.

[Marlin32]

Thanks for all the help. I knew there were people on here that know what they are talking about.

I thought Marlin made a 1894 in 45 Colt for one year before the cross bolt?

[J Miller]

Thanks for all the help. I knew there were people on here that know what they are talking about.

I thought Marlin made a 1894 in 45 Colt for one year before the cross bolt?

IIRC the Marlin cross bolt safeties were introduced in 82.
Winchester was first with the .45 Colts in 85 in their 94AE model.
The first Marlin .45 Colts I knew of were the 1894 S introduce late 80s or 90.

So, if Marlin brought out an 1894 in .45 Colt pre safety it would have been pre 82. If so I've never heard of that and again if so, I want one too.

Joe

[Don McDowell]

If the regs don't get specific about handloads or factory loads, then it's really not much problem to get the 45 colt up to specs.
If you look at the handgun data for the 45 colt, you can generally add about 150 fps from the rifle using powders like unique. 2400 will get you about 2-250 fps more from the rifle, and H110/296 will do around 300 fps from the rifle.

[20cows]

How do they enforce the regs? Do they come out, take some of your ammo and test it?

[Marlin32]

Not an easy enforcable regulation no. BUT, for reasons I can't go into, I cannot afford any infractions involving fish and game. No matter the logic (or lack of) or enforceablility.

[1886]

340 gr bullet at approx. 1350 fps from a 20 Rossi

Old Savage, you may have had a simple typo but the bullets are actually 360 grain Keith bullets with a gas check. They are a non-cataloged item from Mt. Baldy Bullets. These are NOT the same as the 360 grain Keith bullets listed on the web page and you will need to ask for them by phone.

Thanks for doing all that figuring on trajectory and energy. Very interesting! I suspect the heavier bullet weight gives the cartridge a little more range. I'm still going to be doing some load develoment on this combination and will let you know what works best in my guns when I'm done.

-Tutt

I have shot that very bullet through a 5 shot Ruger Blackhawk. It is a stomper and supremely accurate. 1886.

[CowboyTutt]

1886, no kidding? Glad I'm not alone! Please PM me your load so we can discuss it, OK? That would be great!

-Tutt

[gundownunder]

I would think a call to the Nebraska fish and game dept might be in order to determine whether they rate your load based on factory data or your own handload data, get the bloke to put the info in writing and send it to you. If your handload data is valid make sure you know everything about your load that you need to prove your case. So you would need the bullet weight, BC, powder charge, primer etc, chrony the load and when you get it all to add up (scientifically verifiable) you can hunt and have the data to prove its legal.
Using Powerpoint ballistic calculator I worked out that the Hornady 300gr XTP with a BC of .200 driven at 1600fps will give you 1158 fp energy at 100 yds, even at 1450 you still get 968 fp at 100. The powder and primer you would need for those velocities will need to come from someone else and would be barrel length dependent.

I dont know if it will help but here is an article about making the 357 legal in Colorado
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/357colorado.htm
Considering he shares my name he must be right
and I dont think you would get the 357 legal in Nebraska as you would need to drive the 158gr at about 2060fps to make 900 at 100 yds.