.44 mag killing power compared

[kmittleman]

Hey All,


Again I've been poking around on the internet crunching numbers and I've noticed that ( at least with 100 yds or so ) a .44 mag carbine seems to have more killing power than a .30-30. I compared various bullet weights ( 170gr. for the .30-30 and 240-300gr. for the .44 ) and that's what I came up with. I know you can't only rely upon these paper stats, but am I correct in this?

-Kevin

[Buck Elliott]

Define "killing power..."

Kinetic energy figures can (and usually do...) mean next to nothing in the real world. While energy is important, extrapolating bullet performance ("killing power") from energy figures alone is a lost cause, for the most part.

BUllet shape, sectional density, form and construction -- combined with shot placement -- give you a better empirical picture of your sought-after "killing power..."

[meanc]

I've never had an animal come back to life after shooting it with either a 30-30 or 44mag. I'm assuming they both kill pretty convincingly.

It's a good thing those deer can't read.

[pokey]

I've never had an animal come back to life after shooting it with either a 30-30 or 44mag. I'm assuming they both kill pretty convincingly.

It's a good thing those deer can't read.

+1

[Jason_W]

If I had a .30-30 or .44 mag, I'd do a penetration/cavitation comparison. Not that such things are an indicator of killing power, but it would be interesting. My guess is that the .44 would make a wider, but shallower wound channel than the .30-30, and due to trajectory and sectional density, the .30-30 would have the edge past 100 yards.

[Grizz]

My guess is that the .44 would make a wider, but shallower wound channel

Like Buck says it depends on a lot of things. My 325g cast bullet mosying out of the hand gun's muzzle at less than 1100 fps never failed to kill deer dead right there, regardless of shot angle to the kill zone, and with only one exception always exited the animals. Is that killing power?

Kevin, maybe you could define killing power as you understand it, and what animals you're thinking of. "Killing power" is a nebulous concept at best.

From rifle or hand gun, from point blank range to probably 100 yards I've never seen a deer survive a .44 magnum.

Grizz

[kmittleman]

Sorry guys. In know that sounds maybe vague and or naive. I've been reading in various articles here and elsewhere stating that a heavily loaded .44 mag carbine carries more energy to the target @ 100 yds than a .30-30 ( and it's wider and heavier ). Also I've been reading about the "Taylor Knock Out" and it seems to reflect that as well. So does the Hornady HITS calculator. Basically, I'm going to hunt hogs down in TX this fall and want an excuse to buy a .44 levergun. It sounds like it will really pound 'em at close range.

-Kevin

[AJMD429]

In my unscientific opinion, I'd say:

1. Shot Placement
2. Bullet Construction
3. Velocity
4. Weight
5. Meplat/diameter

and .44 Mag vs. .30-30, in those 'categories' gives us

1. similar potential, depends mostly on gun and shooter; .44 requiring more elevation awareness at far ranges.
2. both have a wide variety of bullets from soft lead to bronze.
3. 1,000-2,000 fps seems ideal for penetration, which seems important for non-varmint ('non-explosive' ) game.
4. both have enough weights available for good sectional density, with the .44 Mag maybe 50% greater potential weight.
5. here the .44 Mag would of course win, but would a 'wadcutter' .30-30 do better than a 'Leverevolution' .44 Mag if the tip were part of the bullet instead of a plastic filler? (someone sign up for 'range report' here ☐.. )

In short, both should be quite able to do the job. If you don't want to have to deal as much with 'elevation' over a wide range of distances, the .30-30 might be better. The .44 Mag might have the edge otherwise.

I doubt any critter hit in the vitals will argue the difference.

Basically, I'm going to hunt hogs down in TX this fall and want an excuse to buy a .44 levergun.

ANY 'excuse' to buy another gun will get applause from this forum; we're ENABLERS. In fact, I think you should buy a Marlin 1894, a Puma, and a Ruger 96/44 just for starters. Post a Range Report with your findings at to accuracy, smoothness, and overall function. Then just for the sake of completeness, get a .30-30 in Marlin and Winchester to compare to.

[Kansas Ed]

I've never had an animal come back to life after shooting it with either a 30-30 or 44mag. I'm assuming they both kill pretty convincingly.

It's a good thing those deer can't read.

I watched just that very thing happen a few years ago.

I'd just shot a button buck with the .405 and as I was standing there behind the big bale, his twin ducks out of the brush and into the clearing. I motioned to my brother who was carrying a Rossi 92 in .44 Mag to come my way.

He makes the 50 yard trek on his haunches, slides up and leans across the bale of hay and BAM..hits this little buck front on. Range about 65 paces or so. That buck flopped down and hit the ground like right NOW, and didn't twitch an ear, or flinch a leg! We stood there a sec, and started laughing at how hard he hit the ground, then started walking toward the two deer.

At about 10 paces away he just jumps up and runs into the brush. Neither one of us had even bothered to lever another round into our rifles..and just stood there dumbfounded. There was probably 90 seconds from the shot to when he jumped up. There wasn't any blood on the ground, and no blood trail, or spots of blood anywhere. I mean we found nada, zip, zilch. We searched till dark and never found any indication that a deer was even there...much less wounded. I will wonder about that all my life. Never seen the likes of it before.

Lesson learned: Always lever another round...

Ed

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I don't know, based on the stuff I have shot with both the 44mag and the 30/30, I will put my bets on the 30/30 when we start talking 100yd or more, and even at close range like 30yds I have usually seen more dramatic drop them in their tracks results with the 30/30 then I have the 44, but I still have a lot of respect for he 44.

But I am a lot more impressed with the 44 when loaded in a 444 Marlin. But don't get me wrong, I do love a light short little 44mag leveraction, for close range, varmits and such, but I havn't found it to be the hammer of Thor when the range starts stretching out there.

[RKrodle]

Go get the 44mag levergun, load it up with good ammo and kill hogs with it. You won't be disappointed as long as you do your part.

[Blaine]

Different bullets = different results........180gr JHP = not for big hogs 300gr hardcast = great for hogs and anything else. I think a 170gr 30WCF is dandy on about anything short of 150 yards, IMO.

[mescalero1]

Kansas Ed,
simular thing happened to myself and my half-brother, still makes infrequent appearences in my nightmares.

[Kansas Ed]

Kansas Ed,
simular thing happened to myself and my half-brother, still makes infrequent appearences in my nightmares.

Uhh, I think I see the problem...it's our brothers

Ed

[mescalero1]

Yes, family, darn them!

[J Miller]

How about rather than crunch numbers that can be manipulated and misleading we look at historical facts.

The 30-30 has been killing game for a 114 years. It is a proven cartridge. There can be no dispute of this fact.

The .44 Mag has been killing game first from handguns since 1955 and later from rifles. That is also an indisputable fact.

So, if your looking to buy another rifle, decide what brand, model and caliber you want and go buy one. Both calibers will both do the job.
It's not a matter of which will work, it's a matter of do you want a short action ( pistol size cartridge ), or a long action ( rifle size cartridge ). That's about it.

Joe

[Grizz]

Joe, that's not exactly right is it? I mean if the .44 mag is an extrapolation of the 44/40. I think my loads approach 44/40 velocities even though the bullet weights are heavier.

So 44 performance does actually predate 30-30 if you accept the premise of a slower bullet for some of us gun cranks.

Regards,

Grizz

[Wrangler John]

There ain't much difference between them.

Except that the .30-30 with those Hornady 160 grain FTX flex-tip pointed boat tails will increase your range and velocity. In a Marlin with a scope it would be a good setup.

You might get away with loading the Hornady 265 grain .430" FTX for the .444 Marlin in the .44 Magnum for a pointed bullet and a bit better ballistic performance.

Of course you could pick up a .444 Marlin and be done with it. I had one that delivered outstanding accuracy at 100 yards.

Hornady sells loaded ammo in all three cartridges with the FTX bullets for your shooting convenience.

All three will kill deer and bore reliably. The pig trapper I hired to exterminate wild pigs (Russian/Domestic crosses) used a .357 Magnum lever rifle loaded with .38 Specials to dispatch them in the traps. Later he switched to a .22 Long Rifle so's not to disturb the park visitors! The sheriff's deputies that open hunted them used .223 Remingtons. Best eating I ever had. They ain't bullet proof or supernatural - the hunter just has to develop skill to place the bullet properly.

[kmittleman]

Thanks for all the replies everyone . The back story is that I already have a 336W in .30-30 and it's great. I wanted to have an 1894 in .44 and put a peep sight on it for close in stuff. I just don't want to be redundant.


-Kevin

[J Miller]

Thanks for all the replies everyone . The back story is that I already have a 336W in .30-30 and it's great. I wanted to have an 1894 in .44 and put a peep sight on it for close in stuff. I just don't want to be redundant.


-Kevin

Kevin,

I'll go you redundant x 2. I have a Winchester 94 Trapper top eject in 30-30 and a Win 94 Carbine in 30-30.
I also have a Win 94AE Trapper in .45 Colt, and a Marlin 1894 Cowboy carbine ( short rifle) in .45 Colt.
They are not .44 Mags, but doubling like that is still redundant.

I would suggest that if you want a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag go for it. They might both do the same thing, but the variety makes shooting fun.

Joe

[Buck Elliott]

Sorry guys. In know that sounds maybe vague and or naive. I've been reading in various articles here and elsewhere stating that a heavily loaded .44 mag carbine carries more energy to the target @ 100 yds than a .30-30 ( and it's wider and heavier ). Also I've been reading about the "Taylor Knock Out" and it seems to reflect that as well. So does the Hornady HITS calculator. Basically, I'm going to hunt hogs down in TX this fall and want an excuse to buy a .44 levergun. It sounds like it will really pound 'em at close range.

-Kevin

There's the REAL problem...

Too much reading -- Not enough shooting.

Some of those gun 'riters a just dang' good shots with their word machines...

[O.S.O.K.]

Go ahead - be redundant!

I never let that stop me

[Buck Elliott]

For Pete's sake...

Get the .44; buy several boxes of Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Mag ammo, with 300 (+) gr. bullets, and slay anything you can hit with the thing.

We KNOW that's what you really want to do. Right...

[tman]

i'd like to see a 190gr. hardcast,30wcf. loaded hot compared to a 300gr hardcast loaded hot, 44 magnum shot in simillar medium{live game, ballistic gelatin, etc.} would be an interesting comparision

[kmittleman]

For Pete's sake...

Get the .44; buy several boxes of Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Mag ammo, with 300 (+) gr. bullets, and slay anything you can hit with the thing.

We KNOW that's what you really want to do. Right...

Man! It's like Big Brother has tapped into my mind. Yes, you are right Sir!!

[madman4570]

yup,44 Mag will do!

[Alan Wood]

For Pete's sake...

Get the .44; buy several boxes of Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Mag ammo, with 300 (+) gr. bullets, and slay anything you can hit with the thing.

We KNOW that's what you really want to do. Right...

A cowworker bought a abox of those on a lark and I tried 1 shot in my 94 ranger carbine. Let's just say my shoulder said uncle on the first shot.

[Ravenman]

Seeing is believing! 44 Magnum 300grs. Hornady XTP from a Ruger Redhawk.
http://www.coldsteel.com/hahudoun.html
What Elmer Keith always wrote about the performance of the great 44 Magnum.

[mklwhite]

I know it can seem like some folks are trying to pick the original topic of the post to pieces. Under 100 yards and with the right bullet go for the 44 mag. The biggest thing to remember about any caliber comparison is that most bullets can kill. However the bigger and faster tend to give you more leeway/room for error. A 22 LR can (and have) killed moose and grizzly. But you have to be at just the right spot and everything has to work right. Where as a 50 BMG would allow you considerably more room for error.

[piller]

I used to jump out of a C130 which had 4 engines, but could do everything and at top performance with only two, had a main 'chute and a reserve 'chute. Redundancy is a good thing. Get the .44 and come on down to Texas. Send a PM to 86er and he can tell you what loads will work very well on the hogs down here. I suggest him as he has the most experience here in Texas on hogs of anyone I know. Rkrodle has quite a bit, too. When you come down, don't forget to let those of us in TX know where you are flying into, or passing through, and some of us may have time to say Hello face to face.

[gon2shoot]

If you get a wide meplate cast for your 44 traveling 1200 fps or so in 240gr or up, you will have no problem putting a hog down (shot placement of course). I like my 30-30s, but if I'm gonna get in the close brush with somthing that might eat my leg before I can eat his, you can bet I'm gonna be carrying somthing with a "4" in it.

Try this, drop a softball on your bare foot from 2 ft., then try the same thing with a bowling ball, the only difference is weight. I know velociety makes a difference but most pigs don't go past third grade.

[2X22]

I've killed elk (plural) with the 30-30. I"ve killed elk (many plurals!) with the .44 in rifles and pistols.

A 44 will do you fine.

22

[Kansas Ed]

... but most pigs don't go past third grade.

ROFLMAO

Ed

[Meeteetse]

My hunting experiences cover nearly 50 years. Over that time I have hunted deer, elk and moose with a variety of rifles, usually in .30 caliber. Several years ago in an attempt to make hunting more sporting and more historically correct, I decided to hunt exclusively with lever guns. I already owned two Winchester 94's in 30/30, one a pre-64 and one from the 1970's. I added a Browning 92 in .357 and a Marlin 1894 Cowboy (24") in .44 mag. Since becoming a lever gun hunter I have taken deer, elk and antelope in Wyoming and several hogs and deer in Texas.

Because of the iron sights I have limited my shots to 100 yds or less as much as possible. I have taken a couple of small deer at about 125 yds. with the 30/30. Other than that, every animal I have taken with the 30/30, .357 and the .44 have gone down within 25 yds. I cannot tell a difference with any of the calibers at ranges shorter than 100 yds. Most wounds are through and through with the exception of a couple of .357's that stopped on the backside. (Wrong bullet) I cannot determine if a 30/30 kills better than a .44 since both exit the game, but animals tend to fall down equally with either caliber. Buy the one you like, limit your shots and enjoy hunting in a sporting fashion similar to what everyone did before bolt actions and powerful scopes. I know I love hunting again. One of these days I will own a 45-70 which is a better caliber for the bigger animals like moose and elk.