150s or 170s in the 30/30?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:06 pm

I suppose I should be ashamed to admit it ..... I have never owned a 30/30 that I intended to keep and never hunted with one. BUT, I have one know and intend to hunt with it and keep it. About a month ago I bought a 336T with the idea of sending it to JES Rebores to convert it to 38/55. But I found a 1982 336T that he had already converted and could not pass it up. So now I have a 30/30 that is just too pretty not to keep, and if I keep it then I should hunt with it. I know that both 150 and 170gr.s will cleanly take deer but I want to know what you prefer and why. Does it simply boil down to what the gun likes or is one really that much better on game? I will likely try 170s first simply because I like to go heavy for caliber. Do you mind telling me your favorite recipe and approx. velocity? Thanks,
Goat

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:11 pm

I use 170gr bullets only in all my .30-30s. One of the reasons is that I still use iron sights on them and the bullet point of impact stays the same if I use 170gr bullets in all of them (no changing sight settings). Also, I use my .30-30s to hunt Elk (I've killed serveral with the .30-30) and I think the 170gr bullet is better for Elk.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:21 pm

I use 170's just to get as much penetration as I can. Nothing against the 150's, they just seemed to have made a mess when I tried them.

Makes hogs fall down.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:40 pm

I can't think of a thing that a 170 30WCF GreenBox Bullet can't cleanly kill, within common sense range. I use 45-70 and others just for the fact most hunters don't use them that much. I'll prolly work up a good big meplat 32-20 load for that same reason: Max range prolly to be 30 or 40 yds

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:18 pm

in my win 94 I have found that the 170 win silver tip to be very accurate and just flat hammer deer.for buying bullets I have had no problems with the rem core lok.AA2520 and IMR 4064 are excellent powders.I haven't killed anything with my cast bullets yet in the 30/30.the ranch dog 165 gr is a very accurate bullet for reloading.they drop at .314 with my alloy so easy to resize to .309,310 or .312 if your shooting a marlin with a micro groove barrel.
enjoy your marlin
pete

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:03 pm

Pete,

Would you mind sharing your data on the .30-30 with cast bullets? I'm using a spitzer(I know, I know, not in the magazine, unless flatpointed!) and a RNFP that both drop about 160 gr.. So far, the only load I've used is in my .30-06 with 16 gr. of 2400, which was darned accurate. Any rifle powder loads? I also have some 4895.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:17 pm

I use 170's because that is what I started off using and they are accurate and kill deer like lightening. I never saw any reason to change.

stew71 · Post by **stew71** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:23 pm

I started using the Hornady 160gr Leverlutions a few years ago and never looked back. Before that, Federal 150's were the ticket in my Marlin for no other reason than they shot the best. Deer and piggies didn't care which one they were hit with.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:00 pm

As a RSO, I've seen several shooters not have that great of luck with leverevolutions. I've even shot their guns for them, and gotten the same results. If they WILL work in your gun, though, I expect they'd really be nice. I'm just not gonna give $30/box! ($1.10/round!)

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:36 pm

I used to be 170 grain only Guy because I've seen better penetration and bigger terminal performance. However, after much experimenting with my own 30-30 ( I too did not have one until this year and hadn't hunted with one myself) I have concluded that the 150 gr soft bullets like Core Lokt produce more instantaneous results on behind-the-shoulder lung shots. Several animals have dropped in their tracks with this shot. However, for up-the-front-leg center shoulder / heart shots the 170's seem to hold together better and penetrate more. With that said, I've had more deer run a ways when hit with 170's, but they're all dead in the end. I intend to use 150's for 100 yd deer over a feeder where I can be selective about my shot. On spot and stalk hunts I go with the 170 to put the odds in my favor if a shot is presented but is not perfect or the range is more a guestimate than precisely known. The 170's are the ticket for hogs and bigger game.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:38 pm

I have quite a few 30-30's and load both 170 & 150 gr loads using IMR3031, I let the rifle pick which one it shoots best

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:59 pm

Another vote for the 170 grain bullet. I load Hornady Flat points, and they really work. I refuse to use the Rubber tip bullets, never tried them, and don't need to as my shots are always under 100 yards. Flat Points in my mind just hit harder!

CEMENTHEAD · Post by **CEMENTHEAD** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:34 pm

170's for me and my family. They seem to shoot more accurate out of our guns on average. They are no handicap at all out to 200 yards or so.

Thanks, Tom

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:37 pm

I'm a 170 gr. guy.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:40 pm

I'm a 150gr pill adherent. One-shot drt's from 40 to 230 yards. I go for the behind the leg, lung shot; as the animal takes a step forward with the near leg. I'm kinda stuck on Federals, but if I get away this year I think I'll be trying my handcast gas-checked 150grain.

But I have a couple of .30WCFs that prefer a 170 grain bullets in my handloads, so ya really need to let the rifle tell ya if it has a preference.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:47 pm

170s have been more accurate in the guns I have shot.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:40 am

I use 170's because a monster hog is also possiable during deer season were I hunt.For accuracy most rifles will let you know what weight bullet they prefer.Yup you should be ashamed ...a 30-30 is like apple pie and baseball... so Americana.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:03 am

For hunting, I switched back to the 150's because here in CA there aren't any 170's in copper. I'm happy to have the flatter trajectory though.

For casual shooting I have 170's or 165's in lead cast.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:01 am

I've always used 170s because that's what Dad used, and they worked for me in my 30-30s both on game (when I still hunted) and on targets.

Noah

bee-weg · Post by **bee-weg** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:13 am

150 gr silvertips shoot the best in my Win94.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:35 am

El Chivo wrote:For hunting, I switched back to the 150's because here in CA there aren't any 170's in copper. I'm happy to have the flatter trajectory though.

For casual shooting I have 170's or 165's in lead cast.

WHY are you restricting yerself to the "lead free zones"? Put a tag request in for an X-zone or get a walk-in tag for one of the C-zones up in Norther CA.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:45 am

I would use the new Hornady revolution 160gr.
Wolfs Sporting Center--Manheim Pa almost always has it.
717-665-6089
All Other Lever Loads are Pointless!

LEVERevolution® is the most exciting thing to ever happen to lever gun ammunition. Hornady, the leader in ballistic technology, brings you an innovation in ammunition performance featuring state of the industry elastomer Flex TipTM Technology that is SAFE in your tubular magazine. Its higher ballistic coefficient delivers dramatically flatter trajectories for fantastic downrange energy increases and amazing bullet expansion at all ranges. It truly is an evolution in lever gun ammunition!

* Up to 250 feet per second faster muzzle velocity than conventional lever gun loads.
* Exceptional accuracy and overwhelming downrange terminal performance.
* Patent Pending EvolutionTM bullet featuring Flex TipTM Technology.
* Up to 40% more energy than traditional flat point loads.
665-6089

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:50 am

How much did Hornady pay you to post that??

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:39 am

I think both weights have their advantages. I have killed several smallish TN and AL whitetails with the 150 grain corelockt and they have dropped in their tracks. I have also killed at least one with the 170 grain corelockt that was a broadside shot that was a .30 hole in one side and a .30 hole out the other side. The deer ran about 75 yds through some thick stuff and was a bit hard to find. For small to medium sized deer I don't think you should have penetration problems with the 150 grain corelocts no matter what the angle if the range is fairly close. With that being said, I use the 170 grain Hornady most of the time because my rifle really likes it and I hunt an area where large hogs show up from time to time.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:35 pm

WHY are you restricting yerself to the "lead free zones"? Put a tag request in for an X-zone or get a walk-in tag for one of the C-zones up in Norther CA.

I understand that. I can hunt in the San Berdo forest with lead if I want. But it's kind of a drive, and remember gas was almost $5 a gallon last year. I get the LA county tag and hunt my familiar spots more frequently.

I'm not married to lead bullets. For hunting the Barnes work quite well, they have a big following in states without lead bans. Marc on this forum has been using them for years. I haven't hit anything with one yet but they certainly shoot well.

Now that I've developed a hunting load I can't see much reason to mess with it. With the copper bullets I don't think the weight has too much to do with terminal performance. Those blades open up and it becomes a cutting wheel, and a little extra mass isn't going to improve it.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:39 pm

madman4570 wrote:I would use the new Hornady revolution 150gr.
Wolfs Sporting Center--Manheim Pa almost always has it.
717-665-6089
All Other Lever Loads are Pointless!

LEVERevolution® is the most exciting thing to ever happen to lever gun ammunition. Hornady, the leader in ballistic technology, brings you an innovation in ammunition performance featuring state of the industry elastomer Flex TipTM Technology that is SAFE in your tubular magazine. Its higher ballistic coefficient delivers dramatically flatter trajectories for fantastic downrange energy increases and amazing bullet expansion at all ranges. It truly is an evolution in lever gun ammunition!

* Up to 250 feet per second faster muzzle velocity than conventional lever gun loads.
* Exceptional accuracy and overwhelming downrange terminal performance.
* Patent Pending EvolutionTM bullet featuring Flex TipTM Technology.
* Up to 40% more energy than traditional flat point loads.
665-6089

....For only 80% more! YAY!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:33 pm

What the????????????????????

80% more ?, I was going by buying a box at like a cabelas.

$16.99 verses $20.99

Compare the Hornady with the other stuff and its not even close.
If you want to handload the stuff yes you can do it cheaper but you
still will give up ALOT in the performance/ballistic sector.
It makes that 30-30 an entirely diffrent gun at longer distance,like
twice the knockdown energy at 300yards,it makes it a effcient deer
killer easy out to 300 yards with a darn flat trajectory for a 30-30

No, I am not getting paid for the info,in fact normally if I do not
use handloads, I shoot Federal,but that new 160gr elastomer flextip
has a VAST ballistic advantage.I think its worth the difference.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:50 pm

For your info go on the new posts(BAD RELOAD) and check out the BLOWN UP
Marlin that someone had a reload undercharge and lost 2 fingers.

Not to say it could not happen with Factory Loads, but their is
much less of a chance!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:56 pm

MAdman,

My price differences are based on what I saw here locally, during deer season. As for the difference in accuracy, it's pretty much a non-issue, since few people scope their .30-30's, and won't see the difference the tip makes at longer distances. In fact, most of the people that buy match bullets are just peeing them away, as they wouldn't shoot any worse with anything else.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:05 pm

madman4570 wrote:For your info go on the new posts(BAD RELOAD) and check out the BLOWN UP
Marlin that someone had a reload undercharge and lost 2 fingers.

Not to say it could not happen with Factory Loads, but their is
much less of a chance!

That ia not exactly the truth of what transpired. The shooter had a squib load, and the bullet did not leave the barrel. The shooter then failed to check for a clear barrel after an obvious bad round and chambered and fired a good round into the plugged barrel. The bad reloads fault? NO! Bad rifle? NO! pee poor range practice by the shooter caused this one and nothing else. Put the blame where the blame belongs, not on the rifle or reloading.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:10 pm

I have not been without a Winchester 94 in 30-30 since 1956. For hunting I have always picked up a box of 170 grain Winchester Silvertip factory ammo. That load has never failed to kill deer graveyard dead.

I do handload for the 30-30 as I have a Winchester 94, Marlin 336, Savage 340 and Browning Traditional Hunter SS in that caliber. All I handload are cast bullets. I tend to prefer good old Lyman 311291 in solid or hollow point, although most any good 30 caliber cast bullet with a blunt round nose or flat nose will do just fine. I size .310 or .311 depending on the rifle. Here are some powder charges that work for me. No need to do much looking for a good cast bullet load as the rifles really crave lead.

16- 17/4795
15-16/2400
28-29/3031

Now for pure cast bullet heaven, run down a good Winchester 94 in 32 Winchester Special! Those rifles do so well with cast bullet at any velocity, they give me the shivers.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:41 pm

Ya, if the guy is just using open sights and dont want to use
the gun to its fullest potential sure thats fine!!!
this case it wasnt so much about using a match bullet compared
to a PSP,but comparing a RN to a pointed ballistic tip the first of its
kind for the 30-30.I guess because I shoot at alot of the comp.
shoots on the east coast Colt Match HBARs .223 68gr match bullets
I might get a little carried away in the performance/accuracy dept.

With the squib load,to me however you put it that is a "Defective Reload." It is a contiributing factor with this issue, and yes you
are right, a person should know that when the recoil
is so much different the gun s/b checked out but I bet there are
thousands of inexperienced gun owners that would not notice.

Are they sure it was a squib load, and not say a double overcharge???

rhead · Post by **rhead** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:04 pm

Two of my three Marlin 30-30's prefer 150 grain flat points and one prefers 170 grain flat points.Both are Lee bullets pushed by 3031. My NEF Handi rifle and 10 inch Contender gobble both with equal results. Either has plenty of killing power, I would not be greatly cramped by switching the ammo around but cannot see the logic in delibertley shooting a round that is less accurate than I can make it. Try some of both and go with what shoots the best. If you are unable to tell a difference then either will be equally good. yeah I have a small weakness for the 30-30.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:09 pm

madman4570 wrote:Ya, if the guy is just using open sights and dont want to use
the gun to its fullest potential sure thats fine!!!
this case it wasnt so much about using a match bullet compared
to a PSP,but comparing a RN to a pointed ballistic tip the first of its
kind for the 30-30.I guess because I shoot at alot of the comp.
shoots on the east coast Colt Match HBARs .223 68gr match bullets
I might get a little carried away in the performance/accuracy dept.

With the squib load,to me however you put it that is a "Defective Reload." It is a contiributing factor with this issue, and yes you
are right, a person should know that when the recoil
is so much different the gun s/b checked out but I bet there are
thousands of inexperienced gun owners that would not notice.

Are they sure it was a squib load, and not say a double overcharge???

I've had squib loads and have never just fed another cartridge in and kept shooting. STUPID doesn't even come close to describing that behavior. According to the guy on the following thread, that's what happened.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 25&start=0

It's pretty hard to double charge with any of the rifle powders in the 45/70. Pistol powders yes, but not rifle powders, they overfill the case and spill out.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:39 pm

I would like to hear right from the horses mouth what went on.
The closest thing so far I actually know of is from 86er which has
some communication through the friend of his.He stated a
possible Undercharge.He being a PH I would think its a good possibility. I am sure we will hear more on this.
Could be contaminated/defective primer. Is it possible if he was shooting at some type of magnificient trophy he heard the gun go off
and was so caught up in the moment with this hunt he shot again?
I say to myself it would not happen to me, but if I was shooting at
a 190 score buck would that kind of bang seem BANGGG.I hope not.
Under those conditions I never had that kind of experience happen.

Whatever/however it happened its terrible!!!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Sorry Goat,
Kind of got off the topic here!
Anymore of my discussion on the Blown Up Gun will be on
the other Blown Up Gun post.

Again sorry for getting off track!!!!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:21 pm

I have had many lever guns in 30-30 and have used 150gr bullets in all of them. Why?
I don't know. This subject has come up here before, mater of fact I think I started one of the threads. When I think about I just don't know.
From the start I've used more 150s. I know I've tried the 170s in both factory and hand loads, but I keep going back to the 150s.

I'd really like to find some 160gr RN jacketed bullets like Winchester loaded the 30-30 with in the beginning. But I do believe those are extinct.

So the next time I load some 30-30s I think I'll just stick with the 150s. Might as well, there's no rifle hunting in IL.

Hobie, can you put us in a puke smiley? I need one to put in place of the abreviation: IL.

Joe

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:27 pm

EDIT: Deleted post. No point to it.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:21 pm

J Miller wrote:I have had many lever guns in 30-30 and have used 150gr bullets in all of them. Why?
I don't know. This subject has come up here before, mater of fact I think I started one of the threads. When I think about I just don't know.
From the start I've used more 150s. I know I've tried the 170s in both factory and hand loads, but I keep going back to the 150s.

I'd really like to find some 160gr RN jacketed bullets like Winchester loaded the 30-30 with in the beginning. But I do believe those are extinct.

So the next time I load some 30-30s I think I'll just stick with the 150s. Might as well, there's no rifle hunting in IL.

Hobie, can you put us in a puke smiley? I need one to put in place of the abreviation: IL.

Joe

Hornady's FTX is available in 160, I believe.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:12 pm

Yes it is. I went to Hornadys site and found it. Weird looking 160gr BT pointy bullet with a plastic tip. And only $37.45 per box of 100. OUCH!!!!

Joe

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:15 pm

Yeah, those flex tips are way more than they oughta be, whether it's ammo or components. They can KMA.

Anyone seen any critical defense ammo for sale anywhere? Prices? I have some aquaintances I want to get it for. They carry .380's.