RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 pm

I read with interest about Paco's loads for the 45 colt using reloader 7. Has anyone developed any 44 mag loads utilizing this powder or is it suitable?

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:48 pm

It is hard to beat what H110/296 does in a 44 mag for jacketed bullets & lead full house loads.
And what Unique does for mid-range load, also jacketed & lead loads.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:39 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:It is hard to beat what H110/296 does in a 44 mag for jacketed bullets & lead full house loads.
And what Unique does for mid-range load, also jacketed & lead loads.

Ive used both for years and i agree but i have coming quite a bit of reloader 7 for use in my 45-70 and 45 colt so i want to find out if their has been any load development for the 44 mag utilizing this powder.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:14 pm

Why use a rifle powder in a pistol cartridge? Like the man said, H-110/W-296 is about as good as it gets for magnum pistol rounds.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:25 pm

I'm certain that if its suitable for the 45colt, there shouldn't be a problem using it in the 44mag.

But I'd definitely start a few grains lower than Pacos starting load for the 45 colt

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:52 pm

The only RL7 load I find in the Alliant Reloaders hand book is, 44-40 rifle. It seems to me a full case of RL7 in a 44 mag case just will not come close to what even 2400 would do.

I am also a RL7 user for the 30-30, 45-70 & .308 & 8mm Mauser.

I reload lots of 44's and have no ambition to even try RL7 in same.

My three go-to powders for 44's are; Alliant American Select= target & low velocity, Unique = Mid-range, general purpose, H110/296= Hunting & power loading.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:38 pm

Bear 45/70 wrote:Why use a rifle powder in a pistol cartridge? Like the man said, H-110/W-296 is about as good as it gets for magnum pistol rounds.

like clitton said, because he could.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:52 pm

Ok everyone, thanks for your input. Im well aware that 296, 2400, unique and alot of the others are good powders for the 44 mag. I simply asked if anyone had any experience with it utilizing RL 7 since it is apparently used in the 45 colt and also the fact that i will have quite alot of it on hand for my 45-70. No, i dont normally use rifle powders in my 45 colt either and i would bet that alot of others werent aware that RL 7 could be used until Paco's article.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:15 pm

gary rice wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:Why use a rifle powder in a pistol cartridge? Like the man said, H-110/W-296 is about as good as it gets for magnum pistol rounds.

like clitton said, because he could.

And Klinton was felony stupid but the Dems in Congress let him walk because they all think that all Dems are good guys and shouldn't be punished for their crimes.

Using reloader-7 in a pistol is akin to using premium gas it you VW Beetle.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:57 pm

gary rice wrote:Ok everyone, thanks for your input. Im well aware that 296, 2400, unique and alot of the others are good powders for the 44 mag. I simply asked if anyone had any experience with it utilizing RL 7 since it is apparently used in the 45 colt and also the fact that i will have quite alot of it on hand for my 45-70. No, i dont normally use rifle powders in my 45 colt either and i would bet that alot of others werent aware that RL 7 could be used until Paco's article.

Why don't you work up some loads and let us know how it works.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:31 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:
gary rice wrote:Ok everyone, thanks for your input. Im well aware that 296, 2400, unique and alot of the others are good powders for the 44 mag. I simply asked if anyone had any experience with it utilizing RL 7 since it is apparently used in the 45 colt and also the fact that i will have quite alot of it on hand for my 45-70. No, i dont normally use rifle powders in my 45 colt either and i would bet that alot of others werent aware that RL 7 could be used until Paco's article.
Why don't you work up some loads and let us know how it works.

Im going to do that. think i will start with about 22 grains, 240 grain bulllet.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:10 am

Thats about what the Alliant load is for the 44-40. I would start there and see how it goes.

The 44-40 rifle loading is 23.5 gr., 240 gr. cast lead, 1290 fps. & 12.1K psi. as stated by Alliant. This load is based on a 73 action pressure which is low for a 94/44. Considering the 44 mag is in the 30K range, this will be interesting.

Do you own a Chronograph ? It will be very helpful.

Keep us informed with the test results, I have RL7 sitting on my powder shelf. I'll let you do the load development and then play.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:13 am

Lefty Dude wrote:Thats about what the Alliant load is for the 44-40. I would start there and see how it goes.

The 44-40 rifle loading is 23.5 gr., 240 gr. cast lead, 1290 fps. & 12.1K psi. as stated by Alliant. This load is based on a 73 action pressure which is low for a 94/44. Considering the 44 mag is in the 30K range, this will be interesting.

Do you own a Chronograph ? It will be very helpful.

Keep us informed with the test results, I have RL7 sitting on my powder shelf. I'll let you do the load development and then play.

Lol, you got it. probably wont be until next week but ill let you know.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:33 am

I'm interested to hear your results. But, I predict you'll get a case crammed plum full of RL7 and your velocity will be somewhat lower that usual loads of 2400 or H110.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:48 am

If he has lots of RL7, he will get rid of it faster.
With the Alliant data on the 44-40, and the cases are very close in volume with the 44-40 a bit larger.
My assumption is, and I agree with the above poster.

TomF · Post by **TomF** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:46 pm

I have not found any data for Re7. I did find it interesting that the 44 mag can be safely loaded with IMR 4064 and other IMR powders. The velocity does fall short but it is nice to know that if one was pressed to use rifle powders, it can be done safely. I will locate the Paco article and read up on Re7 as this is one of my chosen powders.

TomF

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:29 pm

It might be a good idea to use the LFC and give it a hard crimp so you can build up a hair more pressure. I look no farther than BlueDot for such work. The Dots are better for stout pistol loads than the rifle powders, also you will use about half the powder than if you were using H110 or 296.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:25 pm

Gary,as I have related here a few times before I tried RL7 in my .45colt rifle and never was able to match the velocity that Paco wrote about in His article. As I rember I was able to get about 1700fps with My lyman/Keith 265gr hardcast. Accuracy was good but the RL7 left some unburnt powder in the bore. I reamed the primer pockets and used large rifle primers for my test. 296 is for Me the best powder for heavy loads in My guns, and was able to get about 1850fps using less powder.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:02 pm

FWIW this is from my IMR handout date 5-94. These are out of 22" 44mag SR4759 21.0C 1630f ps 38500CUP, IMR4227 23.5C 1680fps39500CUP, IMR4198 25.5C 1515fps 2640CUP, IMR3031 27.0C 1190fps 18900CUP, IMR4064 27.5C 1145fps 16600CUP, IMR4895 28.0C 1225fps 18300CUP Todd

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:19 pm

.45colt wrote:Gary,as I have related here a few times before I tried RL7 in my .45colt rifle and never was able to match the velocity that Paco wrote about in His article. As I rember I was able to get about 1700fps with My lyman/Keith 265gr hardcast. Accuracy was good but the RL7 left some unburnt powder in the bore. I reamed the primer pockets and used large rifle primers for my test. 296 is for Me the best powder for heavy loads in My guns, and was able to get about 1850fps using less powder.

i agree with you on 296. ive been using it in the 45 colt and 44 since the mid 70's. This is just a thought. I'll try it out and see where and what it does. If nothing else i have my 45-70 cowboy to burn it in. im going to try it in my super blackhawk also although their might not be enough barrel time for this powder.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:20 pm

3leggedturtle wrote:FWIW this is from my IMR handout date 5-94. These are out of 22" 44mag SR4759 21.0C 1630f ps 38500CUP, IMR4227 23.5C 1680fps39500CUP, IMR4198 25.5C 1515fps 2640CUP, IMR3031 27.0C 1190fps 18900CUP, IMR4064 27.5C 1145fps 16600CUP, IMR4895 28.0C 1225fps 18300CUP Todd

many thanks for the info.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:36 pm

The load that I use for my 44 H&R Handi-Rifle, the Ruger SBH 7 1/2" and my Rossi 92/44 is:

Speer or Nosler 240 gr. JHP With 22.5 gr. of H110 and WWLP primer, with Remington cases.

This load in the Rossi 92 gives the following results; Chronographed with five shots.

# 1 1752 fps Extreme spread 43 fps
# 2 1722 fps Average 1730 fps
# 3 1709 fps Standard Diviation 16
# 4 1727 fps
# 5 1740 fps

I could get some more out of this, however this is very satisfactory for my applications. And is a very accurate load for the three I shoot. I have an almost full 3# can of Winchester 296. It was given to me by a Shotgunner friend who used it for reloading his 410's. He sold the 410's, I got the powder. When I complete the H`110 powder I am now using, I'll have enough 296 for awhile.

Again, H110 or 296 is fine for my 44 Mag's.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:54 pm

Lefty Dude wrote:The load that I use for my 44 H&R Handi-Rifle, the Ruger SBH 7 1/2" and my Rossi 92/44 is:

Speer or Nosler 240 gr. JHP With 22.5 gr. of H110 and WWLP primer, with Remington cases.

This load in the Rossi 92 gives the following results; Chronographed with five shots.

# 1 1752 fps Extreme spread 43 fps
# 2 1722 fps Average 1730 fps
# 3 1709 fps Standard Diviation 16
# 4 1727 fps
# 5 1740 fps

I could get some more out of this, however this is very satisfactory for my applications. And is a very accurate load for the three I shoot. I have an almost full 3# can of Winchester 296. It was given to me by a Shotgunner friend who used it for reloading his 410's. He sold the 410's, I got the powder. When I complete the H`110 powder I am now using, I'll have enough 296 for awhile.

Again, H110 or 296 is fine for my 44 Mag's.

it's fine for me too. i normally use 26 grains of 296/h-110 250 grain bullet for my ruger bisley and marlin 94 in 45 colt. 24 grains of the same behind the cast performance 300 grain bullet. 24 grains of the same with my ruger super blackhawk with a 240-250 grain bullet. works very well with all of these. I also like 22 grains of 2400 in the 44 and the 45 with 240-250 grain bullets.

Preid · Post by **Preid** » Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:17 am

Hi there,
Just wanting to chase up anyone whose done this and has any results, or input

For context- I’m down in Australia, our government in its infinite wisdom has purchased all the pistol powder for the foreseeable future (adi) and no imports of pistol powder is coming through. ADI has ceased making 2205 and all equivalents are also not available, so I’m stuck with 2207, the RL 7 equivalent.

Cheers
Paul

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:25 am

In a rifle and heavy bullet it might just work out.

I'd like to get a load I can use some A2400 in a 30-30.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:31 am

Taken from shooters forum....

JimC -

BTDT, but got somewhat different data... [data taken with a Marlin 1894s, 20" barrel, 1:38 etc]

240gr swcl, 1.610" 25gr rl7 wlp 82degF produced 1235fps, 3"+ group 10shots/50yrds (compressed load, lots of unburned powder left in action and chamber).

300gr tcl 1.610" 22gr rl7 wlp 56degF produced 998fps, 1.9" group (slightly compressed load, some unburned powder left in action/chamber).

We tried switching to wlpm's for some of the other fast rifle powder data, but didn't see any real difference in the amount of unburned powder left behind. W/re RL7 in 44mag: our conclusion runs generally along the lines of - slower than 1680, 4198 or vvn120 in the 44 can be done, but generally isn't worth the effort/cost.

do shoot straight,
greg
www.gmdr.com

mickbr · Post by **mickbr** » Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:41 am

C.E harris the cast bullet expert once sent me data with printouts from the Hercules 1995 manual and Alliant 2005 manual showing 23.5 grains of Rel 7 behind a 240 grain cast for 1290fps in 44-40. Thats a 24"barrel and pressure was low, 12500 Cup. He said it was a consistent performer in his guns. With similarities to 44 mag case capacity you can probably substitute the load, it is quite low powered though. Not sure how this directly relates to 2207 of course.

Check this page also
https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/threa ... b700de146f
A load for 44-40 with 26 or so grains Rel 7 for 1434fps with 200 grain.

mickbr · Post by **mickbr** » Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:51 am

Im not a 44-40 shooter by the way, nor much of a caster. This was just research I was doing for a project one time.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:51 am

Preid wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:17 am Hi there,
Just wanting to chase up anyone whose done this and has any results, or input

For context- I’m down in Australia, our government in its infinite wisdom has purchased all the pistol powder for the foreseeable future (adi) and no imports of pistol powder is coming through. ADI has ceased making 2205 and all equivalents are also not available, so I’m stuck with 2207, the RL 7 equivalent.

Cheers
Paul

I have used AA5744 in .45 Colt with great results.
I used to because, at that particular time, I had limited choices but had plenty of 5744 on hand.
I don't use that load much now since 5744 is one of the most expensive powders....but it was very accurate out of my Ruger and Colts in .45 Colt

Preid · Post by **Preid** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:24 am

Thanks for the replies, I’ll see where it goes but from what I can tell a 300gr projectile will leave the least I burnt powder. It’s far from efficient, but when options are limited

FYI just saw 3x 1lb Alliant steel for $450au $(300ish usd)
The reloading scene here is cactus

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:53 am

Preid wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:24 am Thanks for the replies, I’ll see where it goes but from what I can tell a 300gr projectile will leave the least I burnt powder. It’s far from efficient, but when options are limited

FYI just saw 3x 1lb Alliant steel for $450au $(300ish usd)
The reloading scene here is cactus

It's getting as bad in the UK buddy.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:16 am

If I run this in QuickLoad using the Speer 300gr JSP (#4463) with a COAL of 1.61", using 18gr of ADI 2207 (99% case capacity), from a 20" barrel I get 1180fps and 16.8kpsi peak pressure with only 73% burn efficiency ... lots of unburned powder at barrel exit. Not a great powder for this but it seems like it will work in a pinch.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:17 am

gary rice wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 pm ....reloader 7. Has anyone developed any 44 mag loads utilizing this powder or is it suitable?

If you can not answer his simple question, why reply?

Gary, great question. I will certainly try this very soon myself just to see how well they work out. Rest assured they will be more like low recoil/reduced performance but nothing to indicate it will not work.

Now, there was a published load around 2005 by Hercules and again at some point by Alliant and even Lee Precision for 44-40 rifle loads (lots of folks don't understand the difference between the two for this cartridge)....

Untitled.png

I can only assume Reloder 7 would work better for 44 Magnum rifle loads rather than revolver loads but this should give you an idea. It might even be safe to say the 44 Mag may yield 20% more from these results.

44-40 240gr Test Results - Reloder 7, click the link and just scroll around for the different 240gr loads tested. There is even one using SWC Keith design.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =153512358
.
.
.
The results with these in the 44-40 Marlin rifle yielded great results at 100 yards. Even the 23.5gr load yielded a 10% to 20% gain in performance over the "normal" 200gr bullet loads. 3.6" 20 shot group @ 100 yards

EmbeddedImage.jpg

Magnum - Latin, meaning "Great"

For those that do not know history, 2400 was a rifle powder long before being renamed a Magnum powder. IMR-4227 is IMR's "Magnum" powder, but simply both are slower burning rifle powders successfully adapted to the Magnum family. The 44 Magnum was indeed developed as a powerful pistol cartridge and had to be slightly toned down for rifle use, even when using the successful "Great" 2400/IMR4227 rifle powders.

Wait, there is more......
Got this little guy back in 2017 using 25gr of Reloder 7 and a 240gr Hornady SWC HP
https://sites.google.com/view/44winches ... /2017-hunt

mickbr · Post by **mickbr** » Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:43 am

Hi bryan, thread is 13 years old but was resurrected by the aussie guy Preid a few posts up as he needed a powder substitute. Great info btw, I believe I actually quoted it including some of your results which were sent to me by ed harris.

(Didnt realise you were on these forums until a couple days ago)

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:44 pm

Bryan Austin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:17 am
gary rice wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 pm ....reloader 7. Has anyone developed any 44 mag loads utilizing this powder or is it suitable?
If you can not answer his simple question, why reply?

Grab the keg!
The popo is here

This forum would go dormant if it wasn't for thread drift..

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:59 pm

mickbr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:43 am Hi bryan, thread is 13 years old but was resurrected by the aussie guy Preid a few posts up as he needed a powder substitute. Great info btw, I believe I actually quoted it including some of your results which were sent to me by ed harris. (Didnt realise you were on these forums until a couple days ago)

I did miss that part. Interesting how I have never seen this post before. Even more so I shall try these loads and see what the produce. Certainly not expecting 44 Mag performance by any means but may surprise us if someone uses them in a rifle. I only have a 44 Mag revolver.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:02 pm

vancelw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:44 pm
Bryan Austin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:17 am
gary rice wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 pm ....reloader 7. Has anyone developed any 44 mag loads utilizing this powder or is it suitable?
If you can not answer his simple question, why reply?

Grab the keg!
The popo is here

This forum would go dormant if it wasn't for thread drift..

It obviously wounded you!

It drifter so far, it went out of control ...LOLOLOL

Sorry about that! Sometimes it is nice to see these older threads come back to life by the drifters!!!!

RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS

Re: RL 7 44 MAG LOADS