Reload Review: for .35 REm and .25-35 Cast and/or jacketed

[JohnM]

As I gear up the reload bench for the summer, I thot it would be interesting to hear an update of other folks successful efforts for these two calibers.

I know that William Iorg, f'r instance,did a WHOLE buncha research on twenny-five's, but for some reason I never found his definitive test results.

And there's hasta be someone out there who is really hip to cast pistol bullet plinkers for the .35. As well, a good cast RN 200gr number [or so] would be fun.

So if y'r so inclined, toss in y'r latest faves, new powders and primer combo's -- or tried and true.

Spring is here, the snow looks to be gone for good, and the water isn't solid state. Woodchucks -- beware.

You can always find me -- marshgrrl aht Yahoo daht kom

[2X22]

I don't have any 'plinking' loads for the .35. But I have one GREAT load. 200gr Jacketed or the RCBS 35-200 with 37.5grs of H322 will stay inside an inch at 100 yards in most of my .35's, both rifles and T/C's.

In the 25-35 I don't have 'plinking' loads there either. But 24grs of 3031 with the 117gr Hornady is very very accurate and the RCBS 25-100 with 22grs of 3031 is even more accurate, rarely breaking 1" at 100 yards. Just a bit more accurate than the jacketed load.

22

[Hobie]

I continue to use 38 gr. H4895 under the 200 gr. RNs for the .35 Rem. I see no reason to load this one up or down.

The .25-35 is pretty interesting. It can use a number of powders. Most of my loads now use BLC2 under the 117 gr. RN. I also use 8 gr. SR4759 under the 86 gr. .25-20 bullet. I understand those have been discontinued.

[JohnM]

Thanks, for a good start. Will put'em on file.

Definitely want to find a 158gr SWC pistol bullet plinking load for the .35. Have a nice 50-100 yard spot for busting busatables. ;~`) Also, thot a woodchuck safari might be appropriate along the edges of drainage ditches. Quick shooting.

.25 is most for a lead bullet. 336T has a Bienke cut-rifled-Ballard liner in it, and that short stiffish tube just loves lead. The jacketed's do OK, but lead really shines.

If anyone runs into where William Iorg and his posse are hanging out lately, pliz let me know,

thanks

[C. Cash]

I shoot my 356 Win. like a 35 Rem., and the RCBS 200 Gr. FNGC from Montana Bullet Works has been outstanding. They are sized .359

[Hobie]

Thanks, for a good start. Will put'em on file.

Definitely want to find a 158gr SWC pistol bullet plinking load for the .35. Have a nice 50-100 yard spot for busting busatables. ;~`) Also, thot a woodchuck safari might be appropriate along the edges of drainage ditches. Quick shooting.

.25 is most for a lead bullet. 336T has a Bienke cut-rifled-Ballard liner in it, and that short stiffish tube just loves lead. The jacketed's do OK, but lead really shines.

If anyone runs into where William Iorg and his posse are hanging out lately, pliz let me know,

thanks

Slim posted a Happy Birthday to me (and I'm very appreciative of all such) here, on this forum.

[JohnM]

Whot birfday?

You ain't old enough to have that sorta misery.

However,if you insist on acknowledging such dreary reminders of mortality, then may it be with a splendiferous and exuberant expenditure of powder and lead. And mebbe a new shootin' iron, ta boot.

"Slim', eh? That boy gets around the boards. I guess I do remember that handle, but didn't associate it with the name. I'll go look.

[JohnM]

I shoot my 356 Win. like a 35 Rem., and the RCBS 200 Gr. FNGC from Montana Bullet Works has been outstanding. They are sized .359

Good endorsement, thank you. I've looked at MBW catalog and noted that bullet as being esp good in .35Rem. What powder[s] and weights have you found to be good? TIA

John

[JohnM]

I don't have any 'plinking' loads for the .35. But I have one GREAT load. 200gr Jacketed or the RCBS 35-200 with 37.5grs of H322 will stay inside an inch at 100 yards in most of my .35's, both rifles and T/C's.

In the 25-35 I don't have 'plinking' loads there either. But 24grs of 3031 with the 117gr Hornady is very very accurate and the RCBS 25-100 with 22grs of 3031 is even more accurate, rarely breaking 1" at 100 yards. Just a bit more accurate than the jacketed load.

22

Thanks,
Those both look good. Have the H322 to hand. And SHOULD always have 3031, but let my 'subscription' lapse. I better renew that one.

[C. Cash]

I shoot my 356 Win. like a 35 Rem., and the RCBS 200 Gr. FNGC from Montana Bullet Works has been outstanding. They are sized .359

Good endorsement, thank you. I've looked at MBW catalog and noted that bullet as being esp good in .35Rem. What powder[s] and weights have you found to be good? TIA

John

Hey John,

Yeah they make good stuff and Dave Jennings is good to work with. I shoot that design at what should be about 2100 fps and very little leading, and if I'm really careful between shots they group into .75 at 50 yards, which is probably about as good as I can shoot something that kicks. Of course as you know, the 356 Win. is much more roomy inside than the 35 Rem. and the latter would require a reduced charge weight(Speer I believe lists 35.5gr. Max for IMR 4895), but I use 41.0 gr. H4895 in the 356 which is pretty mild(Slim Iorg suggested H4895 to me as well, and it has been the best I've tried). I have also had success with IMR 4350(some unburned powder) and the RCBS 200 gr. FNGC. Lots of knowledgeable people here on the 35 Rem. that can give you better answers as to powders.

I'll email Slim and tell him the reason that his ears are burning is because people are talking about him.

[CEMENTHEAD]

Only load i use in the .35 Remington.......37.5 grains of 3031, under a 200 grain Remington CoreLokt RN. A little stiff but consistent. Drop 10% and work up in your gun. Have fun....Thanks, Tom

[JohnM]

37.5 grains of 3031,under a 200 grain Remington CoreLokt RN.

Thanks, a Gold standard, there. Of the three .35's I've owned, all shot the 200 Rem's as well or better than anything I put thru them. It is a bit stiffish, but normally I'm not plinking with it, either. ;~`)

[william iorg]

John,

I try to look at the Leverguns board every day but don’t always make it. That old work thang has slowed some of my posting.
I remember the threads from the old Marlin board. Greg Mushial and I started out discussing the 256 Winchester and then the 25-20. We had some good conversations and then moved on to the 25-35. I had a fast twist barrel and Greg had a slow twist barrel. We were attempting to follow Townsend Whelens 25-35 reports of superior accuracy using the slow twist barrel. Greg was able to shoot some remarkably small groups with his slow twist barrel using short-light cast bullets.
Greg’s barrel was ruined by his gunsmith when he tried to ream it to Ackley Improved. Greg has since purchased another barrel but like me his work has held up his play.
I became an advocate of the 100-grain bullet for the 25-35 and have spent a bit of time exploring the 100-grain bullets. For the lever-action rifles I have settled on the Speer 100-grain JHP but I am still working with the 90-grain Sierra JHP hoping to have an alternate.
In the single shot 25-35AI there are several spitzer bullets performing well for me but the Remington bulk bullets shoot very well at low cost so I use quite a few of them for varmint work.
Townsend Whelen liked the 82-grain cast bullets and DuPont 4759.
I have the 257283 85-grain Lyman mold and I have used Whelens data for loads between 1,350 fps and 1,500 fps – these loads are from 8.0 to 10.0 grains. The 257283 has good wide drive bands and performs well in my fast twist barrel with best accuracy below 1,450 fps. My Winchester Model 94AE is crimp sensitive so try loads with no crimp, medium crimp and heavy crimp before you give up on a powder.

4.0 grains of Alliant Bullseye works very well for a light load with the 75- to 90-grain cast bullets. This is a quiet and low recoil load. Use caution when charging cases. As a double charge would be a disaster.

I have several NEI 25 caliber molds and the NEI #23 117-grain bullet ahead of 6.0 grains of Trail Boss is a very good load. This one will give me about 1,145 fps from the 20” barrel.
For a little faster 117-grain load 19.0 grains of IMR 3031 will give you about 1,775 fps and this load is quite accurate but not as quiet.

Doctor A started a long running thread on the Beartooth forum; I assume you saw that one. With the 100-grain jacketed bullets IMR 4320 and Alliant Reloder 10 were my top choices for both high velocity and accuracy. Some have been critical of my 100-grain loads which run 2,600 fps from the 20” barrel Model 94AE but I point out these velocities are in-line with Townsend Whelen, Paul Estey and J. R. Mattern from the 1920’s through the 1940’s. We are using some of the same powders and some newer powders.
The old writing was centered on new production guns for the time and my shooting has also only involved new production guns. For an old rifle I would respect its age and value by reducing my pressure.

I am assuming you are from Australia? We played with Hodgdon Benchmark some and my best loads were with the 100-grain Remington spitzer: 24.0 grain of Benchmark gave me 2,270 fps and 25.0 grains gave me 2,385 fps. Using a Weaver V-3 scope my little Winchester has fired some interesting little five shot groups with both loads. Above 25.0 grains of benchmark my accuracy began to fall off and I went on to Reloder 10 for higher velocity with better accuracy.

Sadly, John Anderson, another Marlin Board member with an interest in the 25-35 has left the range. John and I were fans of Francis Sell and we both dreamed of building a 25-35 Tomcat on Marlin 336 actions. This is still a project I intend to follow through with. That darned Hornady came up with the 308 ME and distracted me.

Snow, an Australian from the Northern Territories, has kindly sent me some sample 25 caliber bullets from the “Bullet Factory.” These are pre-production sample made up using 22lr cases for the jackets. These shoot very well in the Winchester and I have hopes they will become available in quantity in the U.S.

I really enjoy shooting light – less than 90-grain - cast bullets at low velocity in the 25-35 Winchester and one of these days I am going to hit the right combination and shoot a few ten shot groups small enough to equal Greg’s Marlin 336.
Chris, thanks for the e-mail.

[JohnM]

"That old work thang has slowed some of my posting." Must be the new motto of the decade; never been working harder than now, as well.

"I had a fast twist barrel and Greg had a slow twist barrel." Will have to do a check on the one I'm caretaking.

"Greg’s barrel was ruined by his gunsmith when he tried to ream it to Ackley Improved." I remember reading of that event, and kinda wondered about that bit of 'smithing.
"
"I became an advocate of the 100-grain bullet for the 25-35" That is where my interests lie with it, as I have that .303/.250 'roo bbl in a custom No 4 Enfield for go-fast light .25 bullets. Not actually an Aussie, me, tho smitten with small Martini actions ;~`), but live at the West End of Lake Erie in the Midwest.

"used Whelens data for loads between 1,350 fps and 1,500 fps – these loads are from 8.0 to 10.0 grains. The 257283 has good wide drive bands and performs well in my fast twist barrel with best accuracy below 1,450 fps." Just about where i want to be, for my 'fun gun.'
.

"NEI #23 117-grain bullet ahead of 6.0 grains of Trail Boss is a very good load. This one will give me about 1,145 fps from the 20” barrel.For a little faster 117-grain load 19.0 grains of IMR 3031 will give you about 1,775 fps and this load is quite accurate but not as quiet." Off to the shop then, for Trailboss. That load is just about where I was thinking, ballistically.

"With the 100-grain jacketed bullets IMR 4320 and Alliant Reloder 10 were my top choices for both high velocity and accuracy. Some have been critical of my 100-grain loads which run 2,600 fps from the 20” barrel Model 94AE but I point out these velocities are in-line with Townsend Whelen, Paul Estey and J. R. Mattern from the 1920’s through the 1940’s." Reloader 10 also has interested me. I saw it originally in some of data you cited, and after looking into thot that it had some real performance compatibility with the lever .25's.

"Above 25.0 grains of benchmark my accuracy began to fall off and I went on to Reloder 10 for higher velocity with better accuracy." Now remembering reading those findings, and the subsequent move to R-10. However the accuracy you cited with Benchmark got me to waffling about trying it out, also. Choices, choices!!! ;~`)

"Francis Sell and we both dreamed of building a 25-35 Tomcat on Marlin 336 actions. This is still a project I intend to follow through with." Dating my age here, but remember the original article Sell published, and always thot he had set up a perfectly charming rifle cartridge combo. It's only several decades later that I've been able to realize that wish.

Think there was another writer back then, that also worked out a 'snap shooting' .25 lever action, with a custom rear peep, and a curved rifle butt plate for instant alignment on fleeing deer in the thick brush. But mebbe I just remember Sell with my aging double vision. I do know he SOLD me on the 3" Magnum Twenty bore, and an Ithaca 100 in that gauge was my sole shotgun gun for years: geese to quail.

"That darned Hornady came up with the 308 ME and distracted me."

Now we enter the area of seductive stuff, for .25/6.5 fans. Arrrrgh!!! Man, I spent way too much time one fall, winter, and spring trying to get Marlin to give us a modern chambering in that bore. I recently tried Googling all that up under .256, .264, & shellacjohn.

Surprisingly,much of it is still out there in cyber-land. If anyone is feeling rich and spendy-like, then a 6.5 on a 38-56 Imp case was pretty well worked out in a V-thread 336 action, and there's even a gunsmith who became involved that would execute the idea.

Fortunately, I have settled from a 'wild' to a 'mild' cat, and leave such fevered mental thrashing to those with more Grail-quest left in their Ballistical Catechisms. But it was a darned good time, and it caused to meet up with some really sharp minds, including Mr Slim, here.

"Snow, an Australian from the Northern Territories, has kindly sent me some sample 25 caliber bullets from the “Bullet Factory.” These are pre-production sample made up using 22lr cases for the jackets." The illustrious Mr Snow is well remember'd. As are the old WW2 and post war era use of fired .22 cases by component-poor varmint hunters.

A few years ago at a gun show, I saw dies and a forming setup, along with considerable materials in all states of production from that era. And recently, with the component thing running thru my mind, i started throwing my fired .22 hulls into a coffee can instead of the scrap bucket

"I really enjoy shooting light – less than 90-grain - cast bullets at low velocity in the 25-35 Winchester and one of these days I am going to hit the right combination and shoot a few ten shot groups small enough to equal Greg’s Marlin 336."

Well, sir, I can only endorse that idea many fold. And thank you many times also, for exhuming and simplifying all the data that was out there, from the explorations and shooting experiments of y'r 'posse'. Mostly I use the 'Net now for single purpose explorations, but have re-added Leverguns to my little 'twenty minute on-line trapline'. One sometimes forgets how many good folks are out there in cyberland.

Thanks again,

JohnM AKA shellacjohn