450 Marlin in the M94 Will it fit?

[finger toes]

Will a gunsmith be able to make the 450 marlin work in my Big Bore 94?

[86er]

Maybe - Winchester had the Model 94 Timber Carbine availabe in 450 Marlin for a while, so why not?

[C. Cash]

They offered the 450 Marlin on the standard Mod. 94 action(or what looked to be standard to the eye) right before Winchester went belly up. It was shaped overall like the Timber Carbine but I don't exactly remember the name of it. It was short lived. I'm not sure what mods were made to accomodate that cartridge though, and others need to chime in here on the particulars. The 444's, 356's and 307's have a larger diameter barrel than the 375's, and as I understand it they are beefier where they screw into the reciever. Are you starting with the reciever of one of the previous three, or the latter?

[71fan]

It was called the 450 Timber Carbine, and was a big bore without the wide hips of the other big bores. It came with XS sights, ported 18" barrel, and a 2/3 mag.

Right after the closure they went above $2,000 and now they are around $1,000 to $1,200 when you can find one.

And here is one for sale, in fact:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =124705317

I had one and it shot very well and was very handy. I bought it at retail before the closure, and couldn't resist the allure of doubling my money, so it got sold.

[finger toes]

They offered the 450 Marlin on the standard Mod. 94 action(or what looked to be standard to the eye) right before Winchester went belly up. It was shaped overall like the Timber Carbine but I don't exactly remember the name of it. It was short lived. I'm not sure what mods were made to accomodate that cartridge though, and others need to chime in here on the particulars. The 444's, 356's and 307's have a larger diameter barrel than the 375's, and as I understand it they are beefier where they screw into the reciever. Are you starting with the reciever of one of the previous three, or the latter?

It's a pre safety pre rebounding hammer 375. I had no idea the receivers were different. What does this mean in terms of a re-barrel? I may get a 444 marlin made if the 450 wont work. I just wish someone made lots of 300 grain bullets with heavy jackets in .429. The 450 and 45/70 blow it out of the water for power. The timber carbine looks like a regular 94 action. I remember Ken Waters took apart 375 Win cases and reduced the powder charge and fired them in a 38-55. He kept adding powder and keeping track of pressures until he reached the factory load charge with no signs of excessive pressure. The 375 seems pretty mild but I wonder how much "strength" the extra steel ads. Is the lug bigger as well?

[C. Cash]

Good questions finger toes. I just don't have your answer regarding what barrel/reciever is appropriate. In my non-expert opinion, the pregnant sides of the big bore probably don't make it much stronger overall, if at all. The weakness of the 94 action is in the angle of the locking lug...makes the bolt want to ride up and out of the action when taken to extremely high pressure as in Buck Elliots tests with the 454 Casull. The Big Bores reportedly were heat treated to be harder(the recievers) than the standard guns. That is what I've heard and read, but never on official Winchester literature. For me, I would always err on the side of caution and would want the best and most steel I could get between me and the cartridge, even if the 450 Marlin is rated at 44KCup. You'd be dealing with less steel with the 450 Marlin than you would with the 444. On one of the Old forums, I believe it was Marc who had published the barrel diameters for the Big Bores(the originals, not the 450 Marlin). I wished I had saved it. I have the 356 Win. version of the Big Bore and just bought a 444 Marlin version from Warhawk. They're my favorite version of the 94. Good luck and hope you get some more help here.

[Griff]

The Model 94 Timber is a compact, carbine-style rifle designed to be supremely fast and maneuverable and deliver an enormous punch. Chambered in the 450 Marlin, the Timber features a quick-swinging 18" ported barrel. Fully adjustable XS brand ghost ring sights provide quick target acquisition and excellent accuracy. The receiver is drilled and tapped for scope mounts. The three-quarter magazine holds four rounds. The checkered stock features a semi-pistol grip design. A Pachmayr® Decelerator® recoil pad and the ported barrel help reduce recoil.

The picture shows a standard receiver. Hodgdon data lists max PSI in the 35K to 42.6K range. Sounds doable. Heck you may even be able to find a replacement barrel from the factory.

[Marc]

The 1985 Shooter's Bible has an article by John Traister about gunsmithing. There are pictures and some explanation of his conversion of a Big Bore rifle to .458"x 2". The 450 Marlin is almost identical to the .458"x 2". He started with a 375 Winchester so the loading port and the inside of the receiver in front of the loading port had to be opened up to allow loading the magazine. The bolt face also had to be opened up to fit the larger rim on the 458. So yes it is possible to do it and it has been done.

Standard 94 barrel threads are .809"x 20 TPI. Big Bore threads are .875"x 28 TPI. The Big Bore receiver uses a different front scope base because the front receiver ring is slightly larger than it is on the standard 94 in order to accommodate the larger barrel threads. I suspect that the 450 Marlin Timber Carbine has the Big Bore threads because it uses the Big Bore scope base and because the larger cartridge needs the strength of the Big Bore threads. The .410 version of the 94 also uses the Big Bore scope base.

IIRC the 1996 Winchester catalog said the standard 94 receivers were forged from 1119 steel and the Big Bore receivers were forged from 1141 steel. Since 1141 has a higher carbon content it can be heat treated to a higher strength and hardness. I don't know if Winchester did that however. I don't know what steel was used in the Timber Carbine. At any rate a Big Bore receiver should be strong enough to handle the 450 Marlin.

The locking lugs are the same size on both the standard 94 and Big Bore.

[C. Cash]

Thank you for that info Marc!

[Pete44ru]

I bought a new .450M BB94 Timber, in 2004 - and it was not the standard M94 receiver it looked like, per the fella at the factory I spoke with about it.

I had called, concerned, because I had expected a swelled rear to the receiver like my previous .444 BB94 Timber Carbine, and my .444, .375, & .356 BB94 Carbines.

I would think your .375 BB94 receiver would be OK, provided the receiver's magazine throat will accept a .450 mag tube (I never checked for a size difference) - and (of course) it will prolly need the .450's carrier/guides.

Unless......You don't mind a single-shot .450 BB94.

.

[finger toes]

Thanks for all the info guys, I'm a little smarter today than I was yesterday, thanks to all.

[Marc]

The mag tube is big enough to take the 450 Marlin round. The main work would be opening up the receiver so you can load the tube.

[handirifle]

I want to chime in here. first off, my suggestion, is to sell the BB, and use the money to buy a Marlin 450M. Problem solved, but not as fun, I realize.

As for the 375 being mild, I tend to disagree. I have pushed 250gr slugs past 220fps with mine. That is a lot of energy to be hit with. It is NOT a 450 Marlin, but it's not a mild mannered 38-55 either.

[Old Time Hunter]

Don't know if this means much, but awhile back I bought a '94 BB (20" carbine) chambered for the .444 Marlin from an insurance adjuster. The barrel had been bent in a accident (along with the magazine tube), I bought a .450 Marlin barrel (for the Timber Carbine) from Winchester (before they closed) and a 2/3 magazine. Sucker screwed right in, chambered the .450's no problem, cycled properly as best I could tell too. Unfortunately greed got the best of me, sold it at the range for $350 (I had maybe $150 in it) and went to order a new .450 Timber Carbine. Placed my order in November of '06, promised that they would honor orders the next January (after the announcement), filed suit in April, got an offer to settle in August, and received credit from Wally World in November '07. 'Course Wally World no longer sells guns here, I would not have used 'em again anyways.

[C. Cash]

Great info guys. Now, the 375 barrels look slimmer to the eye than the 444, 356 and 307. . Are we saying the 375 has the same threads/barrel diameter as the other Big Bores do, and the barrel just tapers down after coming out of the reciever, or is it slimmer where the barrel screws in too?

[tman]

great post! i also have win BB.'s in .356wcf and .444 marlin. when the supply of .356's dry up, it may make a great alternative to rebarrel it to the .450 marlin. hopefully we can continue this research.

[Marc]

Now, the 375 barrels look slimmer to the eye than the 444, 356 and 307. . Are we saying the 375 has the same threads/barrel diameter as the other Big Bores do, and the barrel just tapers down after coming out of the reciever?

Yes.

[C. Cash]

Thanks Marc. Good luck and keep us posted when you can Finger Toes!