32-20 Stikes on Javelina

[rost495]

You can tell I"m not a lever gun nut, I only come when I need info... but I am enjoying the 32-20 for sure. 2 deer down so far, and took it on a hog hunt, found a hog I didn't trust the 32 to, but did find a javelina. Head shot about 50 yards freehand did the trick. A hornady JHP at 11.5 of 4227 this time, think it is a 95 grainer. Nice crack to the round, and bang flop. Thought y'all might enjoy the picture.
Then I have this question... Lee dies, I cannot get the ******* JHPS to seat straight in the case, leaves a bulge on one side or another of the case, drives me nuts, even letting the expander go in to bell the mouth, it can go in crooked.... Do I need a better set of dies, or a different seater stem?
Thanks, Jeff

[Modoc ED]

Sometimes when I have a problem seating a bullet like you describe, I don't keep pulling the press handle down. I let it back up and turn the case in the shell holder and then re-engage the bullet with the seating die. Sometimes it works, sometimes not but it works most of the time. I also use a LEE Handpress for really stubborn rounds. To me anyway, the feel is much better with the handpress.

Good shooting on the Javelina. What with deer tags getting harder to get, hog/javelina is taking over as the number 1 hunting sport in many areas. Racoon and coyote hunting are becoming more popular too.

[rost495]

I generally rotate ALL of my loads 180 while seating. I did same with this and it was actually seemed worse so I started seating with one stroke... I had to chamber the rounds 5-6 times to get them "straight" enough to lock up and not be stuck, the bright note is that the case ejected just fine, which it didn't do around 13.0 grains.

[Blaine]

Just annal, but I rotate two or three times, as well. Same with the FDC.

[rost495]

That isn't doing it, any more advice? Hand dies could work but seem a PITA, would a set of say REdding or Forster possibly make a difference? Anyone ever call LEE and ask? I don't generally like LEE but thats what came with the gun and ammo.

[Nath]

I have experianced this problem too but in 30/30. I got a Forster seater and it sorted it out.

That is a grand photo

Nath.

[J Miller]

rost495,

That's a nice 92 rifle. A nice collared peckery too. Hope I spelled that right.

As for the Lee Dies. I've only got one set for the .45 Colt and the seater it came with was for only a round nose bullet. I had fits getting my bullets seated right so I had custom bullet seaters made for the die. Works great now. I've read that Lee will make custom seater plugs for your die if you send them bullets. A forum member made my for me.

Or you could try a set of RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Forster or other brand of dies.
Most of mine are RCBS and they work good.

Oh, once you Lee die is in the press crank it down tight. If you don't the die body will flex as you raise the ram to seat the bullet. It's because of that silly O-ring lock ring.

Joe

[colo native]

Rember this a dash round, 32cfw,38cfw,44cfw, all dash rounds and are loose in the die as you start to seat the pill. try backing off on the seating stem, with the die almost down on the case holder.. it takes several times thru the press lowering the seat stem a little at a time, i get good results like this, and starrline brass is best to use...

[rost495]

May call lee or just look for a better set of dies.

Would seem a lot of work to seat just a bit at a time, and if so, putting the die on the shellholder would start the crimp basically way to hard and early if I'm thinking right, IE I only screw the seater die till the crimp bumps, then back it off a bit, then adjust the seater length, then back it off and readjust till till the crimp is set and while crimped, run the seater stem down till it touches and lock it...

Have the starline brass but was using RP this time....

[colo native]

with the die almost down on the case holder, not in crimp setting. remember these brass casses are of different length, rem being the longest, and starline being shortest.. if I remember the rem are 1.315<> and starline 1.285<>
this in itself will cause you to pull hair...
I have found that sorting and doing in lots works, but getting back to the buldge, I use 32cfw in cass and load on a dillon 550 , and have learned not to worry about the buldge with pb pills, but loading jacket ammo I usually take my time as to make it as close to factory as possible with the exception of usong a lee collet crimp. I dont want the pill to slide back in the case, and prefer to keep the pill out to the proper length, making the lee die a must...
all that said the cases are very thin and even .0005 dif in wall thickness will cause the case to maybe buldge...

[KirkD]

A solution that works for me is to only neck size about 1/8" down from the mouth of the case on a fireformed case. I then very slightly flare the mouth with a lee universal expander just enough to start the base of the bullet. The result is that the bullet enters nicely due to the slightly flared mouth, then it passes through the tight 1/8" sized portion and if it gets slightly off axis, the larger, unsized portion of the neck re-aligns the bullet so that the end result is a perfectly concentric with axis bullet.

[rost495]

Will give that a try I think. Seems strange that the belling operation starts things being off line already seems, if I size, and then only slighty expand instead of that thing going down in the case off center already, I may be ahead of the game.

By 1/8 inch, thats what you mean, only down the neck 1/8 inch from the mouth with the sizing.

Thanks, Jeff

[KirkD]

Yes ... by neck sizing 1/8", I mean that only the first 1/8" of the neck is sized. This is merely to keep the bullet from dropping into the case. If your fire-formed necks are still snug enough to keep the bullet from falling into the case when seating, then I would not neck size at all. Then you will have a perfectly centered bullet. I do put a decent crimp on the bullet, once it is seated. The belling I do is barely perceptible .... just enough so the edge of my cast bullets don't catch when beginning the seating operation.

[Cherokee]

I use Lyman dies for my 32-20 loading. I use the M die to expand the case mouth for bullet seating. No problems

[rost495]

Is the M included in the Lyman set? Or a seperate purchase?

[Hobie]

So, have you notice that the bulged on the side cases give noticeable differences in POI? I ask because it isn't necessarily so.

I trim all my cases to an appropriate length (depending on the particular cartridge particulars) and I chamfer all case mouths. I try to ensure that the case is all the way into the shell holder before seating the bullet. Using an M die may or may not solve the problem but some case and bullet combinations seem to trend to bulging one side of the case.

[rost495]

Haven't shot enough to be able to tell, that being said I shot a couple to verify zero and pressure levels, IE will case extract, and then shot the javelina and thats been it.

I don't have any that are not offcenter in one way or another to compare to.

They are bad enough that i have to chamber each round a few times to kinda size it to the chamber... its what you do when you get to load these rounds less than 12 hours before you leave....

I'll get around to trying more at some point. Just curious on the M die, if it helps I'll just order a set of LYman dies. Dies are basically cheap in the long run, the Lee dies I didn't pay for so to speak so its no big deal at all.

[Leverdude]

Lee dies are sometimes too tight in the older calibres. I never had trouble with the 32/20 but both the 45/70 & 38/55 gave me terrible runout. A Lyman "M" expander fixed the 45/70 & then I discovered RCBS cowboy dies. They too have a great expander. The M expander & the RCBS cowboy one go into the case at least as far as a bullet, so if you are going to get a bulge it'll bulge with the expander.
For the 45/70 I back the sizer out too. The 38/55 only needed a better expander.
I try to get RCBS cowboy dies for the oldies now.

[AJMD429]

You can tell I"m not a lever gun nut, I only come when I need info...

...but your post generated a nice discussion, and we enjoyed the photo, so don't be a stranger...!

Then I have this question... Lee dies, I cannot get the ******* JHPS to seat straight in the case, leaves a bulge on one side or another of the case, drives me nuts, even letting the expander go in to bell the mouth, it can go in crooked.... Do I need a better set of dies, or a different seater stem?

I have only used the little mallet-loading kit from Lee on the .32-20, but I've been asking some friends who reload for it what they use. One in particular does use the Lee dies (on a Lyman press, I think), and did send a keith-style bullet he uses to Lee for a seating plug. That, plus a 'factory' crimp die, has solved the feeding/chambering issues he was having previously with another setup. I have handled and shot his reloads, and they didn't appear to have any weird bulges or anything. Starline brass is what everyone seems to prefer who I talked to. Most people I've talked to dislike the 'spongy' O-rings and replace them with the traditional ones, but a couple said they really like them on replaceable-toolhead setups, where you don't remove and replace the dies once you get them into the toolhead right. I can't comment on that because I've not started in with my press yet, but I do have both types of locking rings so I'll see which works for me.

I've got the dies now, and hope to load a couple hundred up soon (was going to do it over the winter, but didn't get to it ).

BTW - .32-20 is a GREAT cartridge. If it had been .308 bore, I think it would have remained the immensley popular round it was 50 years ago.

[Wes]

I have RCBS dies for the 32-20 and have no problems with it. However, with my 22 Hornet dies from Lee I had the same problem as you. When shooting groups with this scoped rifle you could really see the groups open up when you put in the off-center rounds. I tried everything I knew and couldn't get the Lee dies to work and finally gave up and got a set of Hornady dies with their dead length bullet seater. These dies solved my problems. Never again had any trouble with bullet alignment.

[O.S.O.K.]

I agree with Hobbie - see how it shoots before you worry about the bulge. If they shoot well, don't worry.

[rost495]

problem is the bulge won't allow them to chamber. Had the same issue years back with 357 mags in a python, they had a visible bulge but chambered and extracted and shot fine.

[41bear]

I have read that the expander in the Lee 32/20 die is .307 and if so that is why you get the bulge. I know that I get the bulge also but it hasn't caused a problem in my 32/20 CCL, it was a problem in my Ruger though, one chamber was tight.

From what I've seen, in my Lee set, it is set up for the 1.285 case and this is esp. true of their Factory crimp die. All of my Remington cases get cut back to 1.285 after they are shot and I only have 100 factory loads left to go to solve that problem. I've also noticed that their sizing die doesn't set the shoulder back on Marlin fired cases, at least not mine. Maybe I'm just lucky but I'm pleased with the Lee set and my gun shoots well with my reloads.

[Griff]

I have only experienced that phenomenon when using a round seater plug on a SWC bullet... but then I have no Lee dies ... I would have to say that it sounds like the seater plug is not correct for the bullet shape... OR, the seater is not aligned with the ram.