got my water buffalo with Marlin .450

[reflex264]

Hello fellers. I just got back from getting my water buff. Rifle and load worked great. More later. reflex264

[Jaguarundi]

Congrats and that is cool !

[dr walker]

Congratulations, nice looking beast. Please share some of the hunt details. Bullet type, speed. How many shots.

[TedH]

Congrats on a good looking buff, but we need details too.

[Borregos]

TedH +1

[2ndovc]

Very Cool!
I love the .450M. Looking forward to more details, especially what load/ bullet used.

jb

[kimwcook]

Congratulations. And, yeah, we need details. One of the questions I have is what type of water buff is that?

[reflex264]

Howdy fellers. I will have a very detailed reprt later but the short story is:
The load was JBY's 420gr Crater Lite at 1785fps. I shot twice because the buff was on its feet but it was already imobile and couldn't move. The first shot was taken at 50 yards with the buff walking. The bullet broke the huge leg bone before hitting the lungs. Blood was pouring from the buff's nose seconds after the shot. The bullet then exited the ribs and hit the offside front leg/shoulder. It didn't break it but did something to disable it. I put another shot right through the heart. The guide said he has never seen another hit from anything cause the blood to shoot out like a hose. Had a great time. More later. I heard it refered to as a river buff. There are something like 7 sub-species of water buffalo. reflex264

[86er]

I won't speak for Reflex on his animal but:
there are 3 types of water buffalo that are commonly referred to. In fact, all the water buffaloes were once considered the same. The world of exotics (introduced species) have had quite an influence on the characteristics of water buffalo in different geographical areas. The large,wide sweeping flat horned type Buffalo are commonly referred to as Australian or South Island Water Buffalo. The Heavy, wide and curled horns and a face with a wide, square nose and flat sceptum are commonly called South American or Patagonian (a hybrid strain) and are the heaviest at 2000 lbs full grown. The Asiatic Water Buffalo is the smallest body size, running up to 1500 pounds. They feature high horns that curl quickly and tightly. The horns are not as massive in circumference nor as heavy. They tend to have shorter hair at the end of the tail and are thinner at the hips. Reflex's WB seems to be the latter. There are several other local names used to identify WB but they are mostly the choice names of a ranch or outfitter, NOT a scientific distinction or a traditional name. There is no distinction in the record books except US introduced WB and separately catagorized WB that are taken in Australia and New Zealand. There is a catagory for Trophies of South America but the scoring is the same as the US Introduced kind.

Any kind of WB is my favorite thing to hunt with clients. Congrats Reflex!

[RIHMFIRE]

thats one big pile of meat....
congrats

[reflex264]

This picture gives an ideal of how big this thing really is. reflex264



the heart

[Tycer]

Congratulations, nice looking beast. Please share some of the hunt details. Bullet type, speed. How many shots.

Exactly!

[reflex264]

The load is a 420gr Crater Lite at 1785fps. I shot twice but the first shot was fatal. The second sped thing up quite a bit. The first shot broke the nearside leg and then ripped the front of the lungs. Blood was pouting from the nose and mouth within seconds of the shot. The bullet lodged in the offside leg and while it didn't break the bone it did something to immobilize it. The buff tried to turn towards us and couldn't. I walked up about 25 yards from it and stuck the second bullet right through the heart. Immediatly a stream of blood strated pouring out shooting several feet away from the buff. It was just seconds till it was down. We recovered one of the bullet under the hide on the off side and the other will be removed wehn they cut the front quarter up. The gent that guided me said he has never seen any load/rifle do what this one did. In the pre hunt conversation he told me that the buff would tear out running after the first shot then we would get in position to give it another shot. This buff couldn't run. I will have pics of the recovered bullets up in the next few days. reflex264

Here is the pre -cleaned up picture showing part of the blood stream that shot from the buff. I have watched tons of video of cape buff and water buff and I have never seen this happen on any of them even with .470 and .500 Nitro Express rifles.

[TedH]

Very impressive performance!

[Griff]

Congrats. Nice shooting!

[.45colt]

Great post, and Shooting. I'm a butcher by trade an I'm tellin Ya right now if that critter was within my reach,a bunch of it would be on the grill right now.

[reflex264]

Great post, and Shooting. I'm a butcher by trade an I'm tellin Ya right now if that critter was within my reach,a bunch of it would be on the grill right now.

I am going to have to go back up there to get it. They advised me to let it hang for 3 days before cutting it up. I can't wait to see how it is. reflex264

[reflex264]

I forgot to add this animal was estimated by cattle people that were there to weigh 1800lbs. There was another gent there familiar with cape buffalo and he said it was as big bodied and built as sturdy as any cape buff he had ever seen. Everything on it was big. The skin was so thick that the bullet that stopped on the side was actualy inside the skin. The bones were huge. The lungs were enormous as was the heart. reflex264

[Engineer]

That is a nice buff Reflex. I have been fortunate to have hunted and taken hundreds of Australian buffalo over many years, starting in 1974. Living in the NT for a long time it was buff hunting heaven. Took quite a few of them with a Marlin 45/70 as well. Gentlemen, this is my first post here so I'm looking forward to contributing as well as learning from you all. My lever guns are a Marlin M336 in 35 Remington and a Winchester M71 .348.

TB

[Thunder50]

Welcome to the fire, Engineer!

[tman]

nice trophy, good shooting. i wish winchester would have made a 20" straight gripped, model 94 before their demise it would have been the ultimate 94, able to take on the biggest game in the world

[papabear]

congratulation on your Buffalo

[rjohns94]

nice buff!!!


Welcome Engineer

[reflex264]

That is a nice buff Reflex. I have been fortunate to have hunted and taken hundreds of Australian buffalo over many years, starting in 1974. Living in the NT for a long time it was buff hunting heaven. Took quite a few of them with a Marlin 45/70 as well. Gentlemen, this is my first post here so I'm looking forward to contributing as well as learning from you all. My lever guns are a Marlin M336 in 35 Remington and a Winchester M71 .348.

TB

welcome Engineer. That trip is in the planning stages. One of my true dream hunts. reflex264

[Engineer]

welcome Engineer. That trip is in the planning stages. One of my true dream hunts. reflex264[/quote]

Thanks Reflex. There are still plenty of big buff bulls in the NT that have massive horns and are worthy of trophy status. Not as many as there used to be in my time up there. Stupid Fed Govt launched a massive culling program in the early 1980s. Some folk here believe it was a conspiracy between cattlemen, greenies and the fed gov to destroy a 15 million dollar wild gamemeat industry that the cattlemen had no hand in. Whatever the reason, they destroyed hundreds of thousands of buffalo by shooting them from helicopters with contract shooters. All they achieved for their $2 billion Buffalo eradication investment, was the destruction of the wild game meat industry. The big buffs are hardy creatures and are back again. Beware though, most of the older big ones that have been kicked out of the herd are extremely dangerous and very territorial. If you cross their path on a bad day ... and that is everyday with these big fellas, they will charge you and your vehicle and turn it over, happened to me on only one occasion ... managed to avoid them on all other occasions. Whatever you do, enjoy your hunt mate.

Terry

[reflex264]

welcome Engineer. That trip is in the planning stages. One of my true dream hunts. reflex264

Thanks Reflex. There are still plenty of big buff bulls in the NT that have massive horns and are worthy of trophy status. Not as many as there used to be in my time up there. Stupid Fed Govt launched a massive culling program in the early 1980s. Some folk here believe it was a conspiracy between cattlemen, greenies and the fed gov to destroy a 15 million dollar wild gamemeat industry that the cattlemen had no hand in. Whatever the reason, they destroyed hundreds of thousands of buffalo by shooting them from helicopters with contract shooters. All they achieved for their $2 billion Buffalo eradication investment, was the destruction of the wild game meat industry. The big buffs are hardy creatures and are back again. Beware though, most of the older big ones that have been kicked out of the herd are extremely dangerous and very territorial. If you cross their path on a bad day ... and that is everyday with these big fellas, they will charge you and your vehicle and turn it over, happened to me on only one occasion ... managed to avoid them on all other occasions. Whatever you do, enjoy your hunt mate.

Terry[/quote]


I am familiar with the eradication. I heard it was done to try to stop the spread of disease from the buff to domestic animals but I always thought that was a bunch of garbage. Got any pics you can post of your buffs? reflex264

[Engineer]

The BTEC Eradication Program was at the instigation of the left handed conservationists and the cattlemens association along with various so called experts. The theory that the US market would not buy beef from an area where Brusilosis or Foot & Mouth could occure was the excuse that the Dept of Ag, NPWS and every other interested group needed to set this destructive ball rolling.

Over the years that it ran, not a single case of the two diseases they were looking for was found. A good friend of mine was contracted by the Feds to repair and service all the various firearms used by these chopper cowboys. He told me that the pilots never flew over the shooting area twice to see if they were dead or not and to put the poor animals out of their misery. Not a humane way to kill a big animal like a buffalo. Fly low and shoot a moving target from a moving vehicle. Many thousands of animals were shot down and wounded and left to die miserable deaths.

The result was a waste of a natural resource, the destruction of a wild game meat industry and a $2 Billion cost. On the up side, a massive increase in the number of Razorback Boar numbers and no wonder, all that buffalo meat to consume.

Prior to the BTEC program, there were considerable inroads made into the massive population of buffalo by the game meat hunters. I remember several operations such as Mudginberri Station putting up to 35,000 Buffs per season through their meat works. Munmalarie Station doing a similar amount, Point Stuart Station with around 28,000 buffs, Wildboar Station about 25,000. Inroads were being made into the buff population that's for sure. But it didn't satisfy the whinging cattlemen who castigated the meat shooters. In one season, my gunsmith friend shot over 3000 buffs for meat. There were a lot of shooters who were earning a good living from it.

It's all history now and the good thing is that the buffalo are back. I have some old pics of buffs taken by me and my good friend somewhere, I'll try and dig them out. Thanks for your interest.

Terry

[1886]

Great post. Thanks, 1886.

[piller]

That is a nice Buffalo. That 450 Marlin did a much better job than my .480 Ruger did on the Water Buffalo I took last year. Good shooting.

[kimwcook]

Welcome to the forum, Engineer.

Can't wait to hear some of your exploits in the NT, mate.

[reflex264]

Thanks Engineer. Great post. For whatever reason the water buffalo has always facinated me. More so than the cape buffalo. Look forward to your pics.


Is the meat good?
Yeah buddy!!
This was Saturday's supper......



How good did the bullets work?



bullet # 1 broke the leg bone and got the front of the lungs before lodging in the offside shoulder.
bullet # 2 took out the heart and lungs and lodged under the offside skin, actualy in the skin.
bullet # 3 is an unfired 420gr Crater

The buff was dead very quickly and the bullets retained 70% and 90%.

[Hunter4570]

Hi reflex264,

Nice shoot and great caliber that 450. Planning a trip to Mozambique next year to hunt buffalo in the north of the country during wet season (less expansive for me). Think i'll use an 86 heavily loaded with 420 to 450grs lead bullets. Your success confirm my choice. The steak looks delicious, a bit too much "cook" for my taste but...
Regards from France

Hunter4570

[JustaJeepGuy]

Is the water buffalo as dangerous as the Cape buffalo? I love the description I read about the Cape buff--"It looks at you like you owe it money."

[86er]

Water Buffalo are bigger than Cape Buffalo but are generally more passive. They can be equally dangerous in some circumstances but WB are are more tolerant of intrusion and less aggressive overall than their Cape cousins.

Relfex - Thanks for the honest bullet performance assessment and photos. It tires me to no end to hear the wive's tales of cast bullets penetrating from stem to stern on all the largest animals on earth. Your results are very typical of what I have seen in over 4 dozen large bovine I've taken now with my clients. Cast bullets smear, expand, break and loose weight. At the same time they penetrate well and make a decent wound channel. This is what anyone should expect when shooting very heavy animals with cast bullets.

[reflex264]

Hi reflex264,

Nice shoot and great caliber that 450. Planning a trip to Mozambique next year to hunt buffalo in the north of the country during wet season (less expansive for me). Think i'll use an 86 heavily loaded with 420 to 450grs lead bullets. Your success confirm my choice. The steak looks delicious, a bit too much "cook" for my taste but...
Regards from France

Hunter4570

The steak isn't as cooked as it looks. Nice and red in the middle. Just right. If you carry that 86 remember don't get too carried away with velocity. In the ballistic buffalo when cast bullets are shot real fast it causes more damage to the bullet. If shot too fast the bullet looses strength early in penetration and I have even had some that were pretty maleable snap in half. I drew the line at 1800fps and thing I hit the velocity right on the head. reflex264

[reflex264]

Water Buffalo are bigger than Cape Buffalo but are generally more passive. They can be equally dangerous in some circumstances but WB are are more tolerant of intrusion and less aggressive overall than their Cape cousins.

From what I saw (and its hard to draw a conclusion based on one small heard) that is a good asessment. There was one young bull that probably weighed 1000lbs that was running around grunting and posturing after this one went down. I kept my rifle ready but fortunatly he didn't come all the way to me. I figure in a few more years he will be trouble though.

Relfex - Thanks for the honest bullet performance assessment and photos. It tires me to no end to hear the wive's tales of cast bullets penetrating from stem to stern on all the largest animals on earth. Your results are very typical of what I have seen in over 4 dozen large bovine I've taken now with my clients. Cast bullets smear, expand, break and loose weight. At the same time they penetrate well and make a decent wound channel. This is what anyone should expect when shooting very heavy animals with cast bullets.

I was pretty pleased with the performance. I had no illusions about the bullet being recovered looking like they were just cast. The caused pretty massive trauma and stayed intact. All that I could ask for. I would like to know more about your buff hunts. I will check out your web site. This was my first one but it won't be my last. reflex264