OT - Speaking of big kitty cats

[Doc Hudson]

Here is a little story of an adventure my grandfather had with one.

BIG DADDY AND THE PANTHER
By Larry M. “Doc” Hudson

Of all the colorful characters I've known, my maternal grandfather, Lucius Martin Atwell, was one of the most colorful. Big Daddy, as we all called him, was a big man with a large appetite for Big Mama's good cooking and for fun. Quite often his idea of fun backfired on him. Most of the time the repercussions were in the form of catching the devil from Big Mama but, on one occasion, they were much more frightening.

In the early 1940's Big Mama, Big Daddy and their kids lived in a house deep in the woods near a stream called Dry Creek. The house was located about three miles from the nearest paved road. Big Daddy farmed on shares during the day and worked at a feed mill in the evenings. Since they didn't own an automobile, Big Daddy walked from the farm to the highway to meet his ride into town. On the return, he walked home in the dark.

In those days, several sections of Crenshaw County, Alabama had annoyingly high populations of what were locally called panthers. The area along Dry Creek was no stranger to them, but they were not as common as they were in the Conecuh River swamps.

I know that some of you are probably making rude noises and saying things like, "There ain't no such thing as a panther in North America!" I beg to differ. The jaguar is a member of the genus PANTHERA and its traditional range includes the American Southwest. Additionally, if there are no panthers in the USA, why is the Florida Panther a protected species? Furthermore, I didn't say there are panthers in Crenshaw County, Alabama, I said they were "locally called panthers." (I've had this argument before.)

In any case, one night as Big Daddy was walking home from the highway, he heard a distant noise. It sounded like a woman screaming. Being in a playful mood, Big Daddy screamed back at it, even though he figured it to be a panther. He did not think much about if for a few minutes. Then it screamed again. Still being in a playful frame of mind, Big Daddy screamed back and continued his walk home.

After a few minutes, the panther again screamed. The call came from much nearer. This time, Big Daddy kept silent and kept walking. Shortly the scream sounded still closer, and Big Daddy began walking still faster.

Time after time the scream came, closer each time. With each scream, Big Daddy's pace increased. By the time he reached the bridge over Dry Creek, he was in a dead run. He still had a half-mile to go before he reached the house, and the panther sounded much too close for comfort.

With speed born of abject terror, Big Daddy fled up the dusty red clay road. With every step he expected to feel claws and fangs rip into his flesh. By the time he reached the front yard, he could hear the predator's approach.

With a final burst of speed, Big Daddy raced across the yard, jumped onto the porch and burst through the rarely locked front door.

He slammed the door shut and barred it. He spent the rest of the night sitting in front of the door, cradling his old Hopkins & Allen 12 gauge single barrel.

The remainder of the night passed uneventfully, with the exception of hearing a few growls. The following morning there were numerous panther tracks in the soft dirt near the house. After that little adventure, Big Daddy's walks home were quicker and quieter. If this story has a moral, I suppose it could be summarized as: "Whistle in the dark as you walk past the cemetery if you wish, but don't sing duets with hunting panthers."

[Tycer]

I read they sink their teeth neatly between two vertebrae. Quick and painless.

[gamekeeper]

Sound advice(excuse the pun) I think I'd only have called that Panther if I already had the old Hopkins & Allen in my hands.

[Idiot]

That was a good story Doc. I'd remove the one defensive paragarph though; it detracts from the tale. Thanks - I could hear crickets and frogs in the background.

[rjohns94]

Great story.

In the mid to late 80's I was walking my lab in the woods in Ct. We came across a critter with a snarling face and a light brown coat - a mountain lion as sure as I am sitting here, sitting on a rock ledge about 40 yards in front of, 10 yards to the side of, and about 15 feet above the trail we were on. People still say it wasn't a mountain lion, maybe a bobcat but I can tell you, I have killed bobcats and there is no way to confuse a bobcat with a mountain lion. They may not exist in Ct. today, but for one day in the 80's, there was at least one that did. My dog Ruger took to barking when that kitty startled snarling and if I hadn't had him on a leash, he certainly would have gone after that cat. I had a series 70 Colt 1911 on me that day but I never drew it out. The cat lept off the rocks and ran across the trail in front of us and it was all I could do to hold onto the lead of my dog. He was never afraid of anything.

[Modoc ED]

Pretty good story but why the paragraph holding the reader in disdain?

What color were the panthers you are refrencing in your story?

Mountain lions, seen below are commonly known by five names out West -- Mountain Lion, panther, catamount, cougar, and puma.

It is against the law in CA to kill a Mountain Lion. There is no hunting season. There is such a thing as a "Depredation Permit" for after you kill one out of self-defense but you'd better be able to prove it was self-defense or face possible jail time. Hence the common phrase here in CA -- "Shoot, shovel, shut-up".

[TedH]

Good story Doc, thanks for sharing.

[Nath]

Yes good story

Nath.

[kimwcook]

Excellent story. Thanks.

[Doc Hudson]

The "defensive paragraph" is not holding the reader in disdain at all.

I've had numerous arguments with co-workers who have tried to claim, "There is no such thing as a panther!" or "There ain't no panthers in Mississippi,"or "there are no panthers in North America!" And most of the time I've whacked them over the head with the facts

Fact #1 - Jaguars are indeed members of the genus Panthera, and their range at one time included a large portion of the Deep South and still includes parts of the Southwest. So there are indeed Panthers in North America. I've even heard a well known spokesman for the Mississippi Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks on a radio call-in show, "Mississippi Outdoors," sneer at a caller telling of a panther sighting "There are no panthers in Mississippi," and hanging up the phone.

Fact #2 - While mountain lions-puma - cougar - catamount -panther are all common names for the same critter, Felice Concolour, "Panther" or "Painter" is a name commonly used in the South, is not a member of the genus Panthera. The difference is that members of the Panthera genus roar, and members of the genus Felice scream.

Fact #3 - If there are no Panthers in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana or Texas, why in the world does the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks hunting regulations specifically state that the Florida Panther is a protected species and may not be hunted?

As I said, I've had that argument numerous times over the years. To convince some of those folks, I'll have to kill a panther and dump it on their living room rug.

[morgan in nm]

My grandmother used to tell us stories that her grandmother told her about the war between the states. Now I don't know a lot about this but maybe some of you who live in the area does. In the 1860's, when the war was getting closer to Ashville, NC, which is where my grandmother's family plantation was, there was worry about the "yanks" brutilizing the women of the south. My grandmother's family still had slaves that chose to stay with the families and there was an older "mammy" (thats what they called her) decided to save the girls and move them in the middle of the night to some old slave cabin deep in the Appalacians(I don't know how to spell that.) Now, she was armed only with a lantern and a branch that she would swing into the trees and sing to keep the panthers away. She called them panthers too. I guess the mammy was more concerned with saving the lives of the only family she had than her own skin. My grandmother told these stories to us of several big cats that were throughout that area and nobody traveled alone at night.

Now to modern day, I have heard several people from Texas to the east coast that swear they have seen large black cats that were much larger than a couger so I think there must be something to it.

[Doc Hudson]

I've heard old folks in my home town talk of a big black panther who terrorized the area in the 1920's.

The called him Black Tom. He was notorious for killing livestock and scaring the bejaysus out of folks who tried to hunt or trap him. Rumor has it that he might have been responsible for at least one missing Deputy and a couple of missing hunters, but there was no evidence to confirm or deny it.

Black Tom was seen a number of times and described as being lots bigger than the local tawny panthers. No one ever claimed to have killed him though many tried. He was active in the area ( an stretch of swampy country along the Conecuh River stretching from north of Glenwood, AL to near Dozier, Al, a distance of about 35 miles) for probably as much as seven years and then just disappeared. No one ever figured out whether or not he'd died of old age, finally eaten one of the poison baits put out for him, or simply wandered to another area of operation.

I've never read reliable accounts of good old Felice Concolour producing black specimens, but Jaguars and Leopards (a not too distant cousin) do sometimes have black specimens. The zoologist call them Melanistic Jaguars or Leopards. The spots are still there, but the background fur is so dark as to make them nearly invisible.

Since South Alabama is within the ancient range of the Jaguar, I've often wondered if there might have been a few who survived into recent decades. For the most part, I've figured that since most of the sightings occured in the nighttime or twilight, it probably comes back to the "All cats look grey in the dark" explanation for the Black Panther sightings. But from the evidence offered in this thread, I won't rule out the possibility of Jaguars in the swamps of the deep South, or even in the deep dark valleys of Appalachia.

[bigfred44]

well, I might as well throw in my panther stories, in all the years I have hunted florida the only panther I have seen was standing beside us-19 between otter creek and cross city the game comm. swears there are none that far north but I know what I saw. My old Dad who is Gone now had a couple run ins with Panthers His first run in must have been around '32-'34 He was in the ccc before going into the Army in '34, somewhere between W.V. and P.A. they were building roads and on Saturdays they would take the boys to town to buy there personal items or see a show and the truck would pick them up at 5 or 6 to carry them back to camp, well my Dad missed the truck one time and so he set out walking down the roadway they where clearing, about halfway to camp it's getting dark My Dad can see something trailing along beside the road watching and walking with him He walks faster it walks faster, he starts whistling and singing and walking faster what he has now seen is a panther walks faster getting darker the Cat seems to be moving in closer By the Grace of God before dark and before the cat gets the nerve to come into the open roadway after My Dad He makes it to a huge pile of brush they had pushed and piled up building the road, He sets it on fire and is stuck there all night the Cat circling He has to keep the fire stoked and stay so near it He Has what is like a severe sunburn by Morning when the truck bringing out the Crew finds him, My old Man wasn't the scarey type but He said he was scared that night and would never forget the sound of that thing screaming.

Fred.

[Aussie Chris]

Good story Doc Hudson. There have been way too many stories of panthers down here in Victoria, Australia, in the Great Dividing Range and also in the Grampians Ranges.

I saw some footage on the news at a wedding in the Grampians National park and there was a very very big dark cat walking past in the back round. Too many tales for me to deny that they are out there..

Chris

[Travis Morgan]

The "defensive paragraph" is not holding the reader in disdain at all.

I've had numerous arguments with co-workers who have tried to claim, "There is no such thing as a panther!" or "There ain't no panthers in Mississippi,"or "there are no panthers in North America!" And most of the time I've whacked them over the head with the facts

Fact #1 - Jaguars are indeed members of the genus Panthera, and their range at one time included a large portion of the Deep South and still includes parts of the Southwest. So there are indeed Panthers in North America. I've even heard a well known spokesman for the Mississippi Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks on a radio call-in show, "Mississippi Outdoors," sneer at a caller telling of a panther sighting "There are no panthers in Mississippi," and hanging up the phone.

Fact #2 - While mountain lions-puma - cougar - catamount -panther are all common names for the same critter, Felice Concolour, "Panther" or "Painter" is a name commonly used in the South, is not a member of the genus Panthera. The difference is that members of the Panthera genus roar, and members of the genus Felice scream.

Fact #3 - If there are no Panthers in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana or Texas, why in the world does the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks hunting regulations specifically state that the Florida Panther is a protected species and may not be hunted?

As I said, I've had that argument numerous times over the years. To convince some of those folks, I'll have to kill a panther and dump it on their living room rug.

We get the same BS from Kansas Wildlife and Parks here.

[Bogie35]

Big cats are a lot like snakes. There are more around than you think.

bogie

[mescalero1]

That's a cheerful thought

[Borregos]

Great story Doc, thanks

[piller]

Ogden Nash wrote, "When called by a Panther, don't anther." Seems like good advice to me. A friend who is a dairy farmer about 15 miles from Manhattan, Kansas regularly sees cat shaped footprints which are 9 to 12 inches in diameter. He showed one to a Game Warden who told him it was a coyote print, and was choking while he said it. When pressed he admitted that officially he could not ever admit to what it was.

[Travis Morgan]

Manhattan is IDEAL cat country. KDWP officers are mostly arrogant blowhards who are barely familiar with the ordinances they're supposed to enforce. About half of them are so fat, you wnder if they ever get out of their darn trucks!~

[C. Cash]

Great story Doc! That sort of stuff makes oat bran unnecessary!

[Bogie35]

Ogden Nash wrote, "When called by a Panther, don't anther." Seems like good advice to me. A friend who is a dairy farmer about 15 miles from Manhattan, Kansas regularly sees cat shaped footprints which are 9 to 12 inches in diameter. He showed one to a Game Warden who told him it was a coyote print, and was choking while he said it. When pressed he admitted that officially he could not ever admit to what it was.

9 to 12 inches in diameter?!
Wouldn't that be like an African Lion or something?
YIKES!


bogie

[mescalero1]

Thats it, I'm not going to Kansas!

[Jaguarundi]

Doc,I also have heard many tales of the 'bama black panthers and am convinced of the veracity.Several years ago a gamecamera caught 2 pictures of a Panther(classic tan Puma) feeding on a deer kill outside Bertha,Al.I handled the pics personally and seen the den with prints.(Several miles from were I live)In 2006 around Wicksburg several sightings of Panther(Puma-tan).During that time I found a doe that's neck was broken with telltale flank clawmarks!(Became a good excuse not to carry out the trash after dark for several months.)I sorta backed away wide eyed with 45 Vaquero drawn when I realized it was a big cat kill.Came back several hours with my son in law and the carcass was gone!We didn't inquire further. Recently(2 weeks ago) a co-worker was at her Lake Eufula cabin when she spotted(along with her husband) a "Black Panther" stalking geese in the shallows.This was late afternoon.While she was telling me this tale with the cat's description I uttered "Jaquarundi".Her reply is how did you know?She preceeds to tell me that after doing a internet search the closes cat to fit the description is "Jaguarundi" .FYI she is originally from New England.I also have seen a Black "Jaguarundi" several years ago in the Barbour county WMA.The local gamewarden obfuscated-but after retirement confided to me that those two species of Big cats live in Bama (along with the Bobcat).A friend of mine is a Copter maintenance supervisor on Fort Rucker for many moons on third shift and told me of Panther(tan pumas)walking the flight line in the late night hours sniffing the Copters.

[Jaguarundi]

From the Official Web site of Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources- http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable ... ckcats.cfm-http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable ... arnivores/-http://www.outdooralabama.com/OAOnline/panthers08.cfm-of course kinda to be expected "Officially"

[Jaguarundi]

As for a description of a Jaguarundi.In summary of it characteristics, the jaguarundi, sometimes spelled jaguarondi, (Felidae Herpailurus yaguarondi) is a small wild cat, native to South and Central America, specifically Brazil to southern Mexico. It also ranges northward through parts of Mexico up along the Sonoran Desert to the Arizona border and the southern Rio Grande Valley up to the Texas border. They can live in a variety of habitats from rainforests to prairies, deciduous forests, and marshlands. It is slightly larger in size than the domestic cat, ranging from six to twenty (6-20) pounds and up to five feet in length including the tail. The jaguarundi is known to hunt both day and night, but is generally thought to be diurnal (day hunting), which contrasts with other wild cats found in Florida such as the Florida panther (Felis concolor) and the bobcat (Lynx rufus), which are nocturnal (night) hunters. Their main prey are birds, but also hunt other small game and sometimes catch fish in shallow water as they are generally not hydrophobic (do not dislike water) and are sometimes seen swimming. The jaguarundi's appearance and mannerisms are somewhat otter or weasel-like, giving it the nickname "otter cat". It walks in a low, slinking manner, sometimes with its back hunched in the middle. It has rather short legs in proportion to its body in comparison with other cats. Its tail is the same length as the body and rather thick and heavy looking, which it carries low to the ground. The jaguarundi’s head seen in profile is flattened. It has a large nose leather, short snout, and short rounded ears all of which distinguish it from the domesticated cat and contribute to its otter-like appearance.Description and Behavior:



Most people have a difficult time believing they are cats. In appearance the jaguarundi is unlike any other cat and has been likened to a large weasel or otter, hence its English common name of ‘Otter Cat'. The jaguarundi’s distinctly weasel-like body proportions are long and low, consisting of an elongated slender body, measuring up to some 30 inches with an additional tail of about 20 inches, short legs, exceptionally long, thick tail, and sleek un-patterned fur. The jaguarundi also differs from the other small cats of Latin America by its elongated rather than rounded head that is small in proportion to its body size and sports short weasel-like ears and narrow brown eyes. Jaguarundis move in a quick weasel-like manner. The small ears and long body and a way of walking with their backs hunched up in the middle, the jaguarundi is very unique. Slightly larger than a domestic cat, its adult weight range is 2 to 9 kilograms (5-20 lbs.).



There are three different color forms, which may sometimes occur in the same area or even the same litter – charcoal (grizzled blackish), brownish gray (chocolate), and rusty red. In common with other species of wildcat, the darker colors are most commonly associated with inhabitants of rainforest habitats or dense forest cover, while the paler color is found most frequently in drier or arid environments. One source suggests that the jaguarundi may possibly be considered dimorphic, the males are more frequently of the darker coat color ranging from chocolate brown to slate gray, and the females are slightly more often the lighter rusty-reddish coat color. I did not find all sources to agree to that and both sexes have been known to have either coat color. The red form was previously, and some sources still consider it a separate species, Felis eyra. Research suggests that the solid coat of the jaguarundi is associated with the fact that these cats hunt more diurnally or terrestrially than spotted felids.



Although the cat can climb well and often rests in the branches of trees, it is mostly terrestrial in its hunting. The jaguarundi prefers to hunt ground-dwelling birds rather than mammals, but rodents, rabbits, reptiles, and arthropods are also typical prey. They have been seen springing into the air to capture prey. They have also been observed to prey upon fish as well. The jaguarundi is often to be found close to running water and is an expert catcher of fish, which are caught with its probing front paws. Historical accounts from Mexico suggest that Jaguarundis are also good swimmers and enter the water freely. Mostly terrestrial and diurnal (ground and day hunters), nocturnal activity and arboreal foraging, is occasionally observed.



The jaguarundi is often more social in the rearing of young. They are solitary (live alone) except during the mating season. Jaguarundis usually hunt alone, but during mating season and in the raising of young they have been frequently observed traveling or foraging in pairs.



Biology:



Mating season generally occurs in November and December. Estrus is on average 3 days and gestation ranges from 70 to 75 days. Litter Size is 1 to 4 kittens and age at sexual maturity is 2-3 years. The jaguarundi is spotted at birth but these are lost at around three-four months old. The longevity (life span) is approximately 15 years in the wild and 16 to 22 years in captivity.



Genetically, of all the wildcat species to be found in South America, the jaguarundi can perhaps be more closely associated with the larger felids. It has a chromosome count of 38; as do both the puma and jaguar, where as the remaining small felids in South America have only 36. There is some evidence to suggest that the jaguarundi is perhaps a descendant of the ancestral puma, which is believed to have emigrated from Asia via the Bering Land Bridge (Big Cats Online, A. Garman).



Habitat and Distribution:



Jaguarundis are cats of the lowlands and not generally found above 2,000 meters. The jaguarundi otherwise occupies a broad range of both open and closed habitats -- from dry scrub, swamp and savanna woodland to primary forest. In Venezuela, it has been most frequently seen in tropical dry forest. Jaguarundis are more rare and thinly distributed in moist forest types, especially deep rainforest. Jaguarundis have been reported to prefer forest edges and secondary brush, but this may be because it is in such areas that these primarily diurnal cats are most frequently seen. In Belize’s Cockscomb Basin Wildlife Sanctuary, jaguarundis are most frequently associated with riparian and old-field habitats. Access to dense ground vegetation appears to determine habitat suitability for the jaguarundi, but of all the small New World felids, it is most flexible in its ability to occupy diverse.

[Jaguarundi]

[Jaguarundi]

A photo of "Jag"

[Jaguarundi]

[Jaguarundi]

The above map is by the research biologist Lisa Wojcik research of "Jaguarundi" sightings in Florida.She believes the present population was introduced back in the late 1930's around Chiefland,Florida.This information was from a series of period articles written by the late Wilfred T.Neill a Florida wildlife magazine author and Herpetologist.He wrote of florida Jaguarundi sightings (some personal sightings) and a "unnamed" florida writer who released the species in florida.This unnamed author was well travelled in central/south america.Interesting to now know there was a writer named A.Hyatt Verrill who lived in Cheifland in the 1940's.Well travelled in central america and mexico and wrote about Aztec and Mayan culture.He also wrote about Jaguarundi's and also about seeing them in florida also.Hmmm ?Between the two authors it sounds like they or a third associate might have released the Jags-possiable.On the otherhand several american indian legends also refer to a "Black Panther" or "Water Panther " as a Missipichu (more food for thought).

[El Chivo]

no mountain lions in my neck of the woods

(found this last Sunday)


Remember a year or so ago the cougar that was killed in Chicago, within the city limits?

[Bruce]

This posts timing is very unusual for me - in many ways. First my background. I am a retired Florida Fish and Wildlife law enforcement employee. I retired as a Commander (Major) and have worked most areas of the state. I was raised in the woods in North Florida (Lafayette County). I am now back in Lafayette County. Most of my time has and continues to be spent in the woods or on the water with a decided preference for the woods.

I along with another officer did see one of the brown phazed Jaguarundi's in the early 80's in the Putnam County portion of the Ocala National Forest. We were patroling together and drove up on it sitting in a dirt road. It was so unusual to us that we actually got out a mammal identification book and looked it up while it just sit there.

Concerning real panthers, there have been some legitimate sightings and road kills in an area generally described as North Central Florida. Putnam, Volusia, Marion and Flagler counties and other similar located counties. Of course there is the known population in South Florida that does have a range up to an area near and around Polk County. At one time in the 80's, the GFC did release some Texas cougars in north Florida - Osceola National Forest (Columbia and Baker Counties) in an effort to see if Florida Panthers could be moved to their former ranges. Those cougars spread very quickly from Jacksonvile to south Georgia and down to the Gulf Coast. The experiment failed as most of the cats became problems and quite a few were killed. The surviving cougars were recaptured. I will not weigh in too much on the black panther debate except to say panthers and cougars are tan and to some they may appear darker if they are wet or in the right shadows.

Now fast forward to this week. My son (who is not a big hunter) was staying at his other grandfathers farm in Suwannee County this week and related to me that he saw an unusual animal in a tree on part of the farms pine plantation. He got a very good look at it and from his description, I feel that he did see a Jaguarundi. There are a lot of deer, turkey, quail etc.. in that area.

Now for the more unusual. I went to my hunt club yesterday and decided to take a long stroll on one of our dirt roads to clear my head and to look for arrowheads. It was early morning and I made it about 200 yards from the truck when I heard a bobcat began squalling like nothing I have ever heard before. I have heard bobcats squall a single time or two maybe two to three times in my life. Once this one started, he (she) did not stop for three to four minutes. He was right on the edge of a bay on a planted pine tree line, about 75 yards from me. It stopped for about the same length of time, changed it's location about 50 yards and did it again. By this time I am beginning to think it is either related to mating or it is bad sick (rabies). I think something mating related is probably more right. It moved one more time and did it again. I had left my revolver in the truck and decided it was time to get back and move on.

I have heard the real old time Crackers describe this ritual before. It was a first for me.

[Bogie35]

no mountain lions in my neck of the woods

(found this last Sunday)


Remember a year or so ago the cougar that was killed in Chicago, within the city limits?

El Chivo,
I love your Location Description!

Thanks,
bogie

[Travis Morgan]

For those that didn't know, and are on the phone with Jesse Jackson right now, "crackers" are cowboys that work cows in the swamps down in Florida. The Carolinas, too, I think.

[Doc Hudson]

For those that didn't know, and are on the phone with Jesse Jackson right now, "crackers" are cowboys that work cows in the swamps down in Florida. The Carolinas, too, I think.

Don't forget Georgia Crackers!

And the term is pretty generic for whites anyway. Anyone who gets their knickers in a twist about use of the term should get some better fitting underwear.

[Travis Morgan]

Yeah, I think it's a big load of BS too, but you just know, somewhere, some idiot would put us on a list. Especially considering our new president, you just know they want to find a bunch of white guys with guns that they can say don't love black people.

[Jaguarundi]

Bruce & Doc,The first time sighting of a Jaguarundi was living in suburban Warner Robins,Georgia(1989-96).I was living in a one story ranchstyle house with to 2 20+# Maine coon cats.When those cats would lay stretchedout on the carport people thought they were exotic dogs.The house had a screened brick porch were I had my workbench for gun work and reloading.The Mainecoons would use it as a lounge area when not letout in the yard.One afternoon I noticed the two cats crutched really low and fur sticking up.Thats when I first noticed the resident black grizzledJaguarundi-his size made the Maine coons look punny.He silently weasel slinked across the yard and went into the street gutter storm drain!That male Jag was very skittish and only seen a few times in the daylight.My best daylight sighting was from the carport facing the across the street neighbors concrete driveway.My father whispered do you see that "big cat" and sure enuf the "Jag" froze broadside at 30' distant in the neighbors driveway !As long as our eyes were locked on the cat it was frozen staring at us.When we finally moved our heads it lightning flash skittered to the storm drain.That "Jag" was a honest 50" long and by comparsion to a domestic cat very impressive especial when it would in one jump land on top of the neighbor 20' stockade fence and nimble walk the top. It is interesting to note that Warner Robins,Georgia is around thirty miles south of the weather fall line.Gnats,Spanish Moss and alligators live in the river bottoms.

[Bruce]

Just for educational information - the term Cracker is not racially motivated in any way. As stated above, it refers to men who cow hunted the swamps and flatwoods areas. It came about from their constant use of bullwhips to move and herd the cows. BTW, they did not hit the cows with the whips, they just popped them nearby to keep them moving or to change their direction. Any cowboy who would intentionaly hit a cow or cowdog would have probably suffered an extensive butt whipping fairly quickly. I don't know about other areas in the south or west, but the Crackers preferred the popper (tip of the whip) to be either bobcat or fox squirrel hide. According to many accounts, they also used them to hunt for small game such as rabbits and quail. Cow hunting was still an active job in the flatwoods in the area I was raised until the early 70's. Due to the thick terrain, a rope was virtually useless. Many people do not know that parts of Florida still had free range laws in effect into the early 70's. These laws had pretty much expired for cattle by then, but they were in full effect for wild hogs. The term used was "Hog Claims". Dixie, Taylor and Lafayette counties were the last to recognize hog claims (IIRC) and it was not by choice that the locals finally gave them up. Basically hog claims were for a specified geographical area of the county that generally was not fenced. All wild hogs in that claim were considered the property of the person holding the claim and they "worked" (trapped, caught, cut, sold, released etc.) the hogs as a means of primary or secondary income.

I worked hog claims with my father and others up into my teenage years. Even though it is a big sport at this time, it was a hard job that had its moments back then. I am only 50 years old, but I honestly don't recall my family buying beef or pork from a grocery store until my late teens.

BTW, I do have a verifiable story about some Crackers who roped a bear down in South Florida.

[jeepnik]

Oh heck, I'll add my "cat" story. Now mountain lions are pretty common is SoCal. But it seems the authorities never want to admit they are in populated areas. I think it has something to do wht the lion population explosion since hunting was banned, and the documented increase of cat attacks.

Any way, a couple of years ago one shoed up in the canyon behind my place. Neighbors called animal control and the sheriff. Animal control showed up a few hours later, and after looking at the tracks said it couldn't possibly be a lion. Funny, they changed their story when the neighbors brought out the video they shot of the cat in their backyard, and another brought out the digital photos.

Well, the local animal control folks said they weren't equiped to handle it so they called in a team from another county. When the "experts" showed up a few hours later, they wisely decided (first smart decision any offical made) that it was getting dark and not a good idea to track the cat. They'd be back the next day.

The following day, they returned and tried to track the cat. Apparently, they weren't very good at tracking. They never found the cat. They decided that it had to be someone's illegal pet that got out and then went back home. Not impossible as exotic pets are quite common hereabouts. Funny thing is though, that people still report seeing today. And, fluffy and scruffy disappear on a regular basis. But ask an offical and they say it can't be here. Then again, they just can't explain the missing pets and the tracks that are found on some of the foot paths in the canyon.

Yep, our government at work. If you can't deal with it, deny it exists.

Thoug, I do keep my GS loaded and have hopes it shows up in my yard. I wonder how they wold spin it if I handed them a deaad mountain lion. Then again, being a protected species, I'd have to prove it really, really, really, meant to eat me, or they'd just haul me off.

[ByronG]

Fact #3 - If there are no Panthers in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana or Texas, why in the world does the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks hunting regulations specifically state that the Florida Panther is a protected species and may not be hunted?
.

Most likely because the durn things are endangered.

"The Florida panther is a critically endangered representative of cougar (Puma concolor) that lives in the low pinelands, palm forests and swamps of southern Florida in the United States. Its current taxonomic status (Puma concolor coryi or Puma concolor couguar) is unresolved" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther

"The Florida panther, Florida’s state animal, is one of the most endangered mammals on earth. It is tawny brown on the back and pale gray underneath. The Florida panther [Puma concolor coryi] is one of 30 Puma concolor subspecies known by many names – puma, cougar, mountain lion, painter, catamount and panther. " http://www.defenders.org/wildlife_and_h ... anther.php

[ByronG]

Fact #3 - If there are no Panthers in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana or Texas, why in the world does the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks hunting regulations specifically state that the Florida Panther is a protected species and may not be hunted?
.

Most likely because the durn things are endangered.

"The Florida panther is a critically endangered representative of cougar (Puma concolor) that lives in the low pinelands, palm forests and swamps of southern Florida in the United States. Its current taxonomic status (Puma concolor coryi or Puma concolor couguar) is unresolved" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther

"The Florida panther, Florida’s state animal, is one of the most endangered mammals on earth. It is tawny brown on the back and pale gray underneath. The Florida panther [Puma concolor coryi] is one of 30 Puma concolor subspecies known by many names – puma, cougar, mountain lion, painter, catamount and panther. " http://www.defenders.org/wildlife_and_h ... anther.php

http://www.panthersociety.org/

http://dhr.dos.state.fl.us/facts/symbol ... age=1&id=6

http://floridapanther.org/panther_facts.html

I don't think there is much doubt that what the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks refers to is a cougar sub-species known as a panther but not of the panthera genus (leopard, lion, tiger and jaguar).

[Jaguarundi]

Yup also illegal to hunt-no open season-on Panther,Mountain Lion,Puma and Cougar(same critter different names) in Alabama.

[jeepnik]

Fact #3 - If there are no Panthers in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana or Texas, why in the world does the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks hunting regulations specifically state that the Florida Panther is a protected species and may not be hunted?
.

Most likely because the durn things are endangered.

"The Florida panther is a critically endangered representative of cougar (Puma concolor) that lives in the low pinelands, palm forests and swamps of southern Florida in the United States. Its current taxonomic status (Puma concolor coryi or Puma concolor couguar) is unresolved" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_panther

"The Florida panther, Florida’s state animal, is one of the most endangered mammals on earth. It is tawny brown on the back and pale gray underneath. The Florida panther [Puma concolor coryi] is one of 30 Puma concolor subspecies known by many names – puma, cougar, mountain lion, painter, catamount and panther. " http://www.defenders.org/wildlife_and_h ... anther.php

Now the comment about the Florida Panther being not only endangered, but also the state animal caust my eye. Out here, the Grizzly is the state animal. And, there haven't been any in the wild for decades. Now you would think the folks here would want to reintorduce the state animal to it's habitat. Well, for once somebody had there wits about them and turned the offer down. Darn, if we ever got enough of a population, we could hunt them again. Though I do wonder how many Treadwell types would be eaten first.

[Jaguarundi]

Jeepnik you should lobby your "Poles".Sounds like just the thing for hiking vegan rice cake eaters !

[jeepnik]

Jeepnik you should lobby your "Poles".Sounds like just the thing for hiking vegan rice cake eaters !

Nah, it'd never happen, then who would vote to reelect them?

[Travis Morgan]

Bruce,

I've used a whip when moving stock before, and you rarely get close enough to the cows or horses to actually hit them. If you do, nobody really cares, because you'd be doing it out of necessity, such as trying to drive them off a boghole or something.
The bullwhip is darned handy6 when running horses because you can use the sound to get the to change direction. This also works on cattle, but to a lesser extent.

[Travis Morgan]

Out here, the Grizzly is the state animal. And, there haven't been any in the wild for decades. Now you would think the folks here would want to reintorduce the state animal to it's habitat. Well, for once somebody had there wits about them and turned the offer down. Darn, if we ever got enough of a population, we could hunt them again. Though I do wonder how many Treadwell types would be eaten first.

No real loss, there!

[2fewdaysafield]

Great story.

In the mid to late 80's I was walking my lab in the woods in Ct. We came across a critter with a snarling face and a light brown coat - a mountain lion as sure as I am sitting here, sitting on a rock ledge about 40 yards in front of, 10 yards to the side of, and about 15 feet above the trail we were on. People still say it wasn't a mountain lion, maybe a bobcat but I can tell you, I have killed bobcats and there is no way to confuse a bobcat with a mountain lion. They may not exist in Ct. today, but for one day in the 80's, there was at least one that did. My dog Ruger took to barking when that kitty startled snarling and if I hadn't had him on a leash, he certainly would have gone after that cat. I had a series 70 Colt 1911 on me that day but I never drew it out. The cat lept off the rocks and ran across the trail in front of us and it was all I could do to hold onto the lead of my dog. He was never afraid of anything.

Thanks for the story of the Mountain Lion in Ct in the 80's. I saw one in Sharon, Ct in 2000. Watched it walk through a field at less than 80 yards for close to 5 minutes. 3 other witnesses. All of us quite sure what it was. In 04 I asked a DEP guy about it, since DEP official position is that there are none in CT. He said "We say there are none so people won't go hunting or trapping for them".

[rjohns94]

glad to hear a confirmation of their presence there. I know what I saw but I have never heard another say they are there. Who would have thunk it?. thanks again

[J35]

No expert on the big cats, but you would think if black ones existed there would have been a real picture or two of one by now as long as camera's have been around.

I have seen a picture of a white one.

I also believe the cougar scream is a fallacy, I have known several people in my life who were Professional Lion hunters who kept a cougar or two for many years and everyone will say they have never heard a lion scream. Whistle yes.

Back in 98 I was out Varmint calling and called in and killed a cougar. Jim Taylor had a picture of it up on the Old Sixgunner site.

A excellent book is HISTORY OF AMERICAN LION HUNTING by WILEY CARROLL 1983, a real eye opener

have fun, life's short