Does anyone make a .44 Mag barrel to SAAMI specs?

[66GTO]

I took my new Marlin 1894 .44 Rem. Mag. to the range yesterday to sight it in with a 4X scope. I took my 1894C along with a 4X scope also. The .357 outshot the .44 Mag by a bunch. The .44 would barely shoot 2" groups at 50 yds., but always with a flier or two (wind was not a factor). No such problem with the 1894C and groups were tighter. I shot factory semi-jacketed rounds in both rifles, 240 gr. in the .44 Mag and 158 gr. in the .357.

I just slugged the .44 Mag. and came up with a .4315" bore. This is better than my overbored Puma (.434"), but still nowhere close to SAAMI specs of .429".

Why can't gun manufacturers get this right? This is getting frustating and expensive.

[J Miller]

I took my new Marlin 1894 .44 Rem. Mag. to the range yesterday to sight it in with a 4X scope. I took my 1894C along with a 4X scope also. The .357 outshot the .44 Mag by a bunch. The .44 would barely shoot 2" groups at 50 yds., but always with a flier or two (wind was not a factor). No such problem with the 1894C and groups were tighter. I shot factory semi-jacketed rounds in both rifles, 240 gr. in the .44 Mag and 158 gr. in the .357.

I just slugged the .44 Mag. and came up with a .4315" bore. This is better than my overbored Puma (.434"), but still nowhere close to SAAMI specs of .429".

Why can't gun manufacturers get this right? This is getting frustrating and expensive.

It does seem totally unreasonable to me as well. I'm wondering if they are using old tools or something like that.
Reminds me of the tendency to over sized chambers and inconsistent throats on the .45 Colt revolvers.
I wonder what would happen if you sent it back to Marlin and told them it was not within SAAMI specs and that you wanted them to replace the barrel with a SAMMI spec barrel, then told them you were also filing a complaint with SAMMI about their out of spec barrels.
Marlin has been putting out a lot of odd ball barrels it seams so something needs to be done.

Joe

[1886]

I would wager Marlin would do what you ask. Give them a call. They are a responsive company. Please let us know. 1886.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I sent my 1894 SS .44 mag back to Marlin amost two years ago for the same reason. It came back with a .4295 barrel and now shoots like it should. They replaced the barrel under warranty and the total turn around was 16 days and part of that was the Christmas shutdown. Marlin has good folks. Treat them right and they will do the same for you.

[Lefty Dude]

I sold my Marlin 94 CB Limited 44 for this very reason. I reload but after going thru so many head-ache's with 44-40 over the years I just was not in any mood to start this process all over again.

The bore groove diameter was .431", and I was not going to stock an other size 44 bullet. If it was .430", I would have kept the piece.

My Custom Colts use .430's, the 44-40 92 uses .430's and my 92 44 spec/Mag. also uses .430".
The Uberti 73 uses .429".

And BTW, the SAMMI spec is very tollerant, it can be as large as .432".

[jd45]

66GTO, contact the guy at Mount Baldy bullets. He made some Keith SWCs for my S&W 629-1, which had .433" throats in the chambers. He ought to be able to cast them hard enough so you can run them pretty fast thru your .434"-groove PUMA. They should shoot well. You might have to adjust that backstop on the cartridge carrier to allow those bulleted cartridges to feed from the magazine, tho. Just my 2 cents, jd45

[AJMD429]

And BTW, the SAMMI spec is very tollerant, it can be as large as .432".

I think there's part of the problem. With all the leeches and lawyers out there, the manufacturer's probably figure just one undersize bore and overpressure situation would cost them more than re-barrelling thousands of guns, and most users won't bother about the difference.

It wouldn't be as bad if the common cast-bullet sources and common moulds were sized .434 or so, but alas, they're not. Probably for the same reasons.

[J Miller]

Traditional bullet diameter for the .44 Mag is .429". Sure there is a tolerance, but the diameter is .429". With the manufacturing equipment available today, there is no excuse for these off size barrels. It's pure sloppiness clouded with the SAMMI specs are generous stuff. They are putting out sub standard products and very few are demanding they made it right.
It's a shame, our domestic gun industry has gone the way of General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler in the mid 1970s. They're making trash.

No wonder we all love the old guns.

Joe

[Lefty Dude]

The quality has gone out the door because there are no apprenticeship programs left in the country for craftsman. Industry in this country is a JOKE. Every one wants the bigBucks now and refuse to take direction for the proper way of doing a task correctly. Short cuts are the words for today. And pride in workmanship is long gone, with the Greatest Generation. If our Fathers & Grand Fathers could see it now they would be disgusted beyond belief

A case in point is when I received my new Colts last October from the Custom Shop. One came in with a properly fitted and S/N stamped on the cylinder that matched the frame. It was a 45LC cylinder fitted for a 44-40 frame. Colt made it good, however there was a serious lack of QC that let that cylinder get so far in the completion, fitting, blueing and assembly & then shipped out the door.
I caught the problem before I shot the piece. Its a shame when the customer has to be the quality control.

I agree, this is why we tend to buy the older products that still have the quality built-in.

[BAGTIC]

Oversize barrels could be a matter of economics. Commercial gun manmufacturers follow a range of tolerances(min/max).

Starting with a reamer near the max end permits multiple resharpenings as the reamer wears thus saving the cost of new reamers. Someone unlucky enough to get a gun made with a new reamer will get larger dimensions that someone getting a barrel produced just before an old reamer is scrapped. Having a barrel/chamber cut with extremely precise tolerances is possible but at greater expense (think pressure barrels). Gun maker realize that most shooters don't know the difference and it is probably cheaper for customer service to correct the problem after the fact than to make all the guns to 'custom' tolerances in the first place.

[TwoCup]

SAAMI has separate specs for 44 MAG handguns and rifles.

The SAAMI spec groove diameter for 44 MAG handguns is .429".

The SAAMI spec groove diameter for 44 MAG rifles is .431".

Perhaps the blame should be with SAAMI for approving a larger groove diameter for rifles??

[J Miller]

SAAMI has separate specs for 44 MAG handguns and rifles.

The SAAMI spec groove diameter for 44 MAG handguns is .429".

The SAAMI spec groove diameter for 44 MAG rifles is .431".

Perhaps the blame should be with SAAMI for approving a larger groove diameter for rifles??

That is stupid. It doesn't matter which device is used to shoot the round, the round is the same. With inconsistent standards like that the manufacturers can make junk and get away with it.

Joe

[Lefty Dude]

If you research jacketed bullets, several mfg's. catalog & supply a 240-300 gr. bullet sized .430" & .431".

Kinda Sucks, doesn't it.

Just makes ya wanna find those good ole products, ya know like they use da make.

When ya buy a new one you roll the dice. Or take a plastic mallet, a few lead balls and a dowell rod when ya shop for a NIB piece to the store with ya.

Me, I like the Classic & Vintage Fire Arms the best.

[Old Time Hunter]

Sure glad I invested in a '94 Winchester Trapper chambered in .44 mag years ago, it slugs at .429 and I am satisfied with it's consistant accuracy when I do my part.

[AJMD429]

If you research jacketed bullets, several mfg's. catalog & supply a 240-300 gr. bullet sized .430" & .431".

Then you'd think they'd do like the .35 caliber pistol/rifle and make different bullets, at or above groove diameter. If the groove sizes are .429 and .431, they should make .430 and .432, and in 'lead' bullets make them maybe .431 and .433!

It would be nice to feel that we were able to CHANGE things like this - maybe if Obama gets elected, he'll help - he says he's for "change!"

[mescalero1]

AJMD429,
You sir, have a twisted sense of humor.
The only thing Obama will change for this group is the speed with which we are hastend to the jailhouse.
And I can assure you it will involve an increase in velocity!

[BAGTIC]

My understanding is that SAAMI itself doesn't "set' the standards. It is only a repository for the standards. The standards are 'set' by the person/company sponsoring the cartridge. In this case it probably would have been Remington.

[J Miller]

My understanding is that SAAMI itself doesn't "set' the standards. It is only a repository for the standards. The standards are 'set' by the person/company sponsoring the cartridge. In this case it probably would have been Remington.

If I remember what I've read correctly Elmer Keith, Remington, and S&W were the co-conspirators in the development of the .44 Mag.
It was a direct descendant of the .44 Special which uses a .429 grove diameter barrel.
No factory made rifles in .44 Mag until the late 60s when Winchester chambered the Mdl 94 for it. Marlin did some 336s and later brought out the 1894s in .44 Mag.

Somewhere I've read that Marlins Micro Grove barrels had a tendency to run large. This was especially true in the .444 Marlin and the handgun rounds. ( Please don't hold my feet to the fire on this I don't know where I read this, but I did. )

So if SAAMI has a bigger spec for rifles, I'll bet it came from Winchester and / or Marlin.

JMHO from what I've read.

Joe

[Lefty Dude]

Was at the range this AM with my 92 Rossi 44 mag, which is over bored. The test loads were 240 gr. Laser-cast SWC's sized to .431". With 6 gr. of Unique, and just a target load. Group was 3" at 50 yds. Stock sights, W/ no scope. I will keep tweeking, and see if I can get this piece to shoot. May just use this piece for a truck gun and shoot jacketed ammo. I guess I am spoiled, because my other 92 in 44-40 is a sweet shooter.

I am of the opinion that the 44-40 is a better choice for accuracy, as my 92 44-40 is a tack driver.

[66GTO]

I took my 1894 .44 Mag back to the range yesterday. I loosened the barrel band and it shot some better, no fliers, but the groups were still 3-4" at 50 yds with a 4X scope. I shot my 1894C (4X scope) with some hand loads (17 grs. H110, 158 gr. Magtech JSP. Fed. Mag. primers, tight crimp). I was shooting at pieces of sporting clays on the berm (about 130 yds.) that had already been busted. I was using Kentucky windage instead of readjusting the scope to that range, and got to where I could hit the clay pieces about every second or third shot. The rounds were very consistent, so I loaded up another box last night. I'm thinking about putting a Mil Dot scope on it so I can compensate for the longer range shots and different loads without adjusting the scope.

Now if I could get my .44 Mag to shoot like that. Guess I'll have to get some dies and bullets for it. I'll have to find some .432 diameter bullets. Any suggestions.