Sighting in my Model 1892s

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mrdibbles
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Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by mrdibbles »

Hey Guys-
This discussion has likely been had so I apologize if this too remedial. I did a prefunctory search but didn't see what I was looking for so I'll bare my soul.

I just got my two Winchester 1892's (38-40 and 44-40) back from my gunsmith. They came out great but they are nowhere near sighted in. The first 15 rounds didn't even find paper at 50 yards :oops: After running about 20-25 cartridges through each here were my findings:

1.) I should not go into any field of employment where shooting and accuracy are important.
2.) My 44-40 was shooting high and right.
3.) The 38-40 was shooting high and a little to the right.
4.) At 50 yards, with the 44-40, I needed to bury my sight to the lower left corner of the target to hit red paper (left of bullseye).

Image

Anyway I am not going to impress anyone with the results shown above but we all start somewhere. So... let me ask you guys... how the heck do I adjust the rear sight? It's a basic question I know but I need your guidance. I think I understand the elevation part but right/left is where I am really struggling.

Beyond that what are some best practices here? In my next trip to the range what should I go prepared with the get these both dialed in? Do you start at the 25 yard marker or the 50 as I did?

After today's humbling experience my hat goes off to anyone that can accurately find their target at ranges beyond what I was shooting :)
Regards,
Matt-
bogus bill
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by bogus bill »

The rear sight go,s the same direction you want the bullet to go. Start close. Move just a little at a time. Helps to have the wife to run back and forth to the target.
awp101
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by awp101 »

I always try to start at 25yds and work from there. Also, it's possible that if your sights were factory regulated for 100yds that you would be shooting high at 25 and 50yds.

I'll let someone else answer the rear sight windage adjustment question. I never can keep the differences between front sight and rear sight windage adjustment straight... :lol:
If these walls could talk, I'd listen to the floor.
RKrodle
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by RKrodle »

I have a small brass hammer and some brass punches that I use for drifting the rear sight. If I don't know where the rifle shoots I'll start very close to the target and work out.
Ricky

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tman
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by tman »

shoot, learn from your mistakes and shoot more. shooting more is the best way to increase your accuracy. shoot more and have fun. :D
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Hobie
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by Hobie »

You can shoot for groups without the gun being zeroed. The bullets still fall into nice groups, when everything is right, just not on the bullseye. :wink: I learned this at a match one time... :lol:
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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AJMD429
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by AJMD429 »

bogus bill wrote:Helps to have the wife to run back and forth to the target.
...actually, a kid works even better - you can reward them by letting them shoot...! 8)

Some other thoughts

1. Don't get discouraged - most of us would have to use wide-angle lenses to photograph the first dozen 'groups' we shot. :oops:

2. Get a good rest - my 12 year old and I made this one in a few hours with scrap wood and $50 of parts from the hardware store, or you can buy them pretty cheap. With a really good rest off a good solid bench (or on the ground if no bench available) the only 'variable' besides the gun and ammunition is your trigger pulling. You will likely get much better groups off the rest, and if you don't, then take heart - the problem is likely partly with the gun or ammo. Once you get sighted in and so on, then you can wean off the fancy rest and just use a sandbag, old coat, or dead cat :wink: .

Image Image Image

Note - the reason we BUILT rather than bought the rest, was it is really nice to have one with clearance working the lever on a levergun (or using an EBR with a "protruding vertical grip" or "high capacity magazine" :o )

3. The rear sights always moves towards the way you want to move the bullet.

4. If there are marks on a sight, once you get a group, move say ten or twelve marks, then re-shoot. It is easier to calculate what a "mark" is on that gun that way, then go 'back' some if needed. For instance if 12 marks moves the bullet 4" to the left, then you know each mark is about 1/3 of an inch. If you had just adjusted say two clicks, and the group had moved about 1/2 to 1 inch (good luck detecting the difference between those) you'd still not know whether eight clicks would move you two inches or four inches.

5. If there are NO marks on the sights, and you can use a fine pencil or scribe to make some, that can help (four 'light taps' doesn't always move the sight twice as much as 'two light taps').

6. I use old cardboard boxes with magic-marker 'dots' at 15 yards at first to be sure I'm "on paper" - bore-sighting the old fashioned way if needed. Then real targets at 25, 50, 75, then 100 yards - usually a 'bullseye' at 25 yards will be at least close at 75 yards, but not always.

7. Sighting in a SCOPE is usually way easier than adjusting open sights of most types, so. . . When I want to either test a gun/load for the 'ultimate' accuracy, or get sighted in with confidence, if the gun can mount a scope, I mount my cheap BSA 36x scope, and shoot off a rest/bench. That way I can see the target in great detail at 100 yards and not do all the running back and forth or need a spotting scope, and I can be SURE that when I miss the bullseye, it is NOT because I couldn't see well enough, or 'pulled' the shot (the scope would give that away). Then I know what the gun CAN do, and I'll decide what other sight (scope, peep, tang, etc.) I will want on it based on the gun's potential, my planned use of it, and sometimes, purely appearance or historical appropriateness.

8. With some mounts (i.e. the 'side mounts' for Winchesters or the see-through mounts for Marlins) you can leave that scope on and with the gun in the rest, adjust the sights until looking through them shows you the same thing that looking through the scope does. Then you KNOW where your bullets have already 'hit' (because you can see the holes through your scope) with the sight picture you have. Remove the scope, and fire some confirming shots, and your shots will likely be right where you want them without as much hassle as if you hadn't done all the 'adjusting' steps while looking through a scope.

9. Sometimes a loose sight, forend ("I'd swear I just tightened those things!"), or scope can mess you up big time, so always check them all.

10. Even if you don't need a 'runner' - take a friend, kid, wife, or co-worker. If you think they'll be bored while you piddle around with sighting-in, bring along a .22 or something they can shoot cans with while there. That helps recruit new shooters to the hobby. :mrgreen:
It's 2025 - "Cutesy Time is OVER....!" [Dan Bongino]
Jarhead
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by Jarhead »

I always start at 25yrds if sighting in a rifle for the first time. I use a good steady bench and some sand bags. I keep the sight picture the same for each shot and shoot only three rounds. That tells me where the rifle is shooting. Relax, breathe, several times as needed, hold your breathe upon exhaling, and SQUEEZE the trigger. Dry fire for practice as needed. Try kneeling, sitting, prone, and off hand as you gain confidence...

Move out to 50, 100, etc. from there..

Best wishes...
Semper Fi
Gun Smith
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by Gun Smith »

You may not ever be able to get the point of impact much lower unless you get a taller front sight. Easy to remember- you move the REAR sight the way you want the BULLET to go. So, since it's WAY high and the rear sight is down as far as it will go now, then you have to move the front OPPOSITE the way you want the bullet to go ie. a taller front sight. Even at 100 yards your still going to be way high with the sight on the gun now. A rule of thumb that will work most of the time is to zero the bullet on the target at 50 yards. The bullet and sight line converge at about 50 yards and the bullet goes up past 50 and drops down to the sighting point at 100 yards. Since 99% of the time you will not be shooting over a 100 yards, you don't have to use "Kentucky windage" to hit a dinner plate target most of the time from any shooting possion.
mrdibbles
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by mrdibbles »

Thanks a bunch for the help guys. I found a local range that allows rifles on their 25-yard field. That's where I'll go next. Armed with the information you've provided and another box of bullets.
jlchucker
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by jlchucker »

I concur with all that say to start at 25 yd and go from there. Also, as others have said, the rear sight should go in the direction that you want the bullet to go. But don't go banging the front sight around at this point. Moving the front sight VERY little goes a long ways. Always work with the rear sight first. But first of all, make sure that both sights are tight in their dovetails--you don't want something that moves with finger pressure. You can't tell anything if these sights move around on their own. Then get a good tight group, from a solid rest, at 25 yd before deciding where to pound, raise, or lower that rear sight. Doing it this way I've never felt a need to ever use a boresighter. Good luck.
Pete44ru
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Re: Sighting in my Model 1892s

Post by Pete44ru »

I didn't catch exactly what type sights you have on your rifles, but if they have the issue barrel-mounted open iron sights, then the rears can be drifted right or left (in your case) in their dovetail with a non-marring drift (a brass pin from an interior door hinge) and a heavy ball peen hammer.

Just do yourself a favor, and first lay a strip of yellow masking tape across the barrel next to & ahead of the rear sight, to mark (pencil) where the sight started from, before you drift it - so you can visually see how far you moved it & how far you need to go.

If the rear sight is already fully depressed, you're gonna need a higher front sight blade to lower the high POI - but check it a 100yds first.

.
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